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Author Topic: Trouble  (Read 3693 times)

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« on: January 02, 2010, 04:17:26 AM »

Hi everyone

Now that I know that no one will suffer eternal torture it has come to my mind: On what basis did you accept Jesus? if it was to escape eternal torture then your receiving of Jesus was done on a false basis and is not valid.

I wasn't expecting this.  Any advice?

Do I really receive Jesus?  Truly, from the heart?  Even on a shallow level?

These questions are coming to mind if you were rich would you continue, if you were rich and had a loving wife and family would you continue?  How do I know what I really think?  (the heart is deceitful).

You will be saved whatever you do.

If you were tortured would you continue?

How do you know that those who go through the indignation of God (the lake of fire) don't end up better off?  Through pain there is gain, and the more pain the more gain.  It is logical that they will be higher spiritually after going through such a painful time. Why don't you just go and enjoy yourself?

But God warns us to flee from His wrath.  If I trust God then I will do what He says.

I just know that I am very weak and pathetic.

Can I really forsake all?  If someone came on took all my belongings could I really treat it as nothing?  I'm afraid.

Jesus said to count the cost.  I know.

When I look back on my life it really seems that God has called me.  So I am going to continue on that basis.  But I am sooooooooo weak.

God, please hold me, please guide me, please cause me to walk in your ways.

Please pray that prayer for me.  And for understanding.  Thanks

And there's one other thing I should mention.  I've been going to a church.  I want to be able to share, well actually, to preach (don't laugh).  One of the elders (the church is run by elders) is very very open.  Please pray for that situation.
From Micah 7:9:  By the grace and call of Yahweh I will bear the trials of the narrow way, because I have no love, until He fully shows me my sin and I am judged by Him.  He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall see His righteousness.


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Re: Trouble
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2010, 11:19:34 AM »

Hi Oatmeal,

God has you right where He wants you now... where we all have been.  When you come to the point where you 'know' you are nothing, then He can pick you up and work with you. We are all 'weak' it is only by His strength that we can do anything.

John 15:5  "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

Eph 2:10  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Don't worry about all the 'ifs,' what good is it to worry about what may never happen.  Just concern yourself with what 'is.'

Mat 6:34  Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Concerning what basis we received Christ, well we were all in the church when we first received Him and I guess it could have been under any number of pretenses.  

2Tim 1:12  For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

Now I would suggest you go slowing about 'preaching' to others.  You need to get yourself well grounded in these truths before you can teach them to someone else.  I think a person may be sympathetic to your new found excitement for 'truth,' until they find out what it is you really believe.

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.

mercy, peace and love

« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 01:39:41 PM by Kat »


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Re: Trouble
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2010, 12:52:45 PM »

Now I would suggest you go slowing about 'preaching' to others.  You need to get yourself well grounded in these truths before you can teach them to someone else.

I would echo that caution as well.  Ray has shared numerous times about people who learn a truth and then want to try to correct their pastor on something and the snake makes a fool out of them.  I started to learn these truths about three years ago and I kept my mouth shut for the first couple of years as I was like a child learning how to walk for the first time.  So many of the things we are taught are so plain wrong that we need a solid foundation of these truths under us before we go forth. 

Also consider;

1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

If they ask you first then they have opened the door for you to testify.


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Re: Trouble
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 12:57:41 PM »

Hi Oatmeal,

I want to be able to share, well actually, to preach (don't laugh).

I hear ya! I think its only natural to want to share the REAL GOOD NEWS!

This was me too. Then I found out just how much most people, especially some of my own family members, hate to hear the truth. Their lips would curl and faces contort and they'd get real ugly and defensive about hell and other parts of Christendom theology. So to make a long story short, the truth doesn't go over too well most of the time for most people.

Another example: I introduced the LOF series to a co-worker who was struggling with wether or not he was going to burn in hell for the sins of his father, he said he was a ******* child and firmly believed he had no other designation but hell. He claimed to love Jesus and that he had went through all the motions of being saved and attended a local church and all but was still believing some how that he was going to hell and had many doubts. I gave him my printed out copy of the LOF a few parts at a time and he fell in love with it and Ray. Guess what happened next? He wanted to tell his preacher about the truths he had discovered and even though I warned him about what to expect, he went ahead and came back with about the same story I mentioned earlier. So I would second what Kat said,

Now I would suggest you go slowing about 'preaching' to others.  You need to get yourself well grounded in these truths before you can teach them to someone else.  I think a person may be sympathetic to your new found excitement for 'truth,' until they find out what it is you really believe.


Dave in Tenn

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Re: Trouble
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2010, 01:36:47 PM »

The churches put way too much emphasis on this "accepting Jesus" idea.  We know that NOBODY can even come to Christ unless the Spirit draw (drag) him.  Jesus is not waiting patiently in Heaven for us to "make the right decision".  He is sovereign God and is doing exactly what He wants with us.  Even if we seek Him with all our hearts, it's only because He has let us know He's there to be sought, and given us a heart to seek after Him...even down blind alleys.  If He hadn't, we couldn't.  It's by Grace we are saved, through faith, and that faith is itself a Gift of God.  We can't even believe--much less follow--unless He causes us to believe.  He really IS our salvation.  Without Him we can do nothing.  Without Him, we are--quite literally--nothing.  

So it doesn't matter what we think our motivation was to begin to follow Christ "back in the day".  The twelve followed him for years before they truly knew why they were doing it.  Paul was kept in the dark for at least a while until the Lord began to show him all the things he must suffer in following Him.  In the same way He chose them, HE chose US.  We didn't choose Him, even if we were so foolish and childish in our faith as to believe we did.  His motivation is the only motivation that matters.  His motivation is to create humanity in His image.  We've been priveledged to get a glimpse of HOW He is going to accomplish this, not just for ourselves, but for all His creation.  And beyond that, we've been given a mission to participate, once He has made us fit.

This 'making us fit' is His job, too.  He'll do with each of us whatever is necessary to fulfill His own Will.  And He'll do that until every enemy is under His feet and all His human creation is in the family of God.  And He'll get all the credit (glory) because all of it is due Him...literally.

The more you know what is true, the less you struggle with false assumptions and babylonian baggage.  It just doesn't stand up next to worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth.  You're in the race.  Hang in there.

Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Silvia Martin

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Re: Trouble
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2010, 12:25:15 PM »

I'm going through the same thing right now. God is bringing me to my knees.He wants me to completely surrender to him. Sometimes I'm able to do for a short period of time. But when it gets to scary, all I do is wimp out and beg for mercy.I tell him I love him and want to follow him wholeheartedly, but when it gets tough,I fall apart.I pray to god all the time: please don't let me be fake. I don't want to pretend to be strong. Well let me tell you, god is not fooled by this one bit. The biggest thing I'm tormented about is, when it comes down to it, would I die for Jesus. I want to in my heart, so I just pray, if it ever comes to that, that god will give me the strength to do so.     
WOW, some thing just came to me. Jesus is asking me to die for him(spiritually, not physically).
Even though I feel like I've been through " HELL" and back and died a thousand deaths. It's been going on for so long, that I question myself. What am i doing wrong, why don't I get what god is trying to teach me.But then he reminds me, that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.I know on day in his own time,he will pick me up off my knees and make me stand tall and strong.What an awesome testimony that will be.I believe he is doing the same work in you. 


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Re: Trouble
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 02:29:32 PM »

Hi Oatmeal,
I'm new to this forum and love the way you have been given encouragement. Yes, we are all weak and that is why our faith through grace will see us through our doubts and fears. When I thought that the world was crashing down on me, I thanked the Lord for the beautiful skies and sunny days he sent us, I thanked Him for the birds chatting in our courtyard (I live in the city) and the beautiful flowers I enjoyed looking at on my balcony, I thanked Him for the roof over my head and oh for soooo many other things that He has granted me... I asked Him to open up my heart and to make me a better person. The Lord God Almighty is always listening to us and if we just praise His name and appreciate the things he has given us, than we will see how lucky we are to have even been given the gift of believing on Him. This is something we learn by going to church and growing up knowing that there is a God above! Life with all its problems leads us away from God, but then, when He is ready for us, He calls us and guides us to where He wants us to be. We were all guided here on Rays website and to this wonderful body of people helping each other in time of need and doubt. Life is full of ups and downs and sometimes we cry and cry when it gets toooo much, but without even realising it, we always come away much stronger than before!


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Re: Trouble
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 09:29:28 PM »

The biggest thing I'm tormented about is, when it comes down to it, would I die for Jesus. I want to in my heart, so I just pray, if it ever comes to that, that god will give me the strength to do so.     

Hope I do this right......Silvia, the wonderful great news is that we dont have to worry about this because if called to do so, it will be God in us doing it, not us. So, if that is what God has planned for you, He will see you through it. Matthew 10:16-20 comes to mind
"Mat 10:16  Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17  But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues.
Mat 10:18  And you shall be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them and the nations.
Mat 10:19  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak; for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
Mat 10:20  For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
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