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Author Topic: "Because you have done this..."  (Read 6377 times)

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mmijares

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"Because you have done this..."
« on: January 07, 2010, 10:12:36 AM »

I'm still studying the Free Will subject so please bear with me if I ask so elementary question/s about this.

Gen 3:14 - And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle..."

Question: What did the serpent do that God cursed him?  If it is "beguiling Eve", didn't he just do what he was designed to do?
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mharrell08

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 10:21:59 AM »

I'm still studying the Free Will subject so please bear with me if I ask so elementary question/s about this.

Gen 3:14 - And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle..."

Question: What did the serpent do that God cursed him?  If it is "beguiling Eve", didn't he just do what he was designed to do?


Yes, Satan has always done what he was created to do:

John 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

But never has Satan been 'forced' to do evil, he wants and looks to do evil:

1 Pet 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

That is the difference in 'responsibility' and 'accountability'. God is always ultimately responsible with what goes on with His creation because He created all in the condition that all is in, including Satan and sinful mankind.

But we, and Satan, are accountable for our actions seeing that we WANT to do these things. We like to sin, as Satan loves to destroy. Neither of us asked to be made this way, but our conditions are necessary to understand we need to trust and rely on God for everything. Once all have learned righteousness, including Satan, we will NEVER look to ourselves in any fashion but rather depend and abide fully in God:

Rev 21:3  I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Roy Martin

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 10:35:38 AM »

Hello Marques.

John 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it
 
In this verse it says that Satan speaketh of his own. I'm curious what that means, of his own.

Roy
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Samson

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 10:38:36 AM »

Hi,

     God created Evil(Hebrew-Ra) and He created Satan Evil, there is no goodness in Him. Although God is responsible as to how He designed him to be, because God's the Creator and that's the way He purposed him to be; He(Satan) was a Murderer, Liar(Father of the Lie) in the beginning(John.8:44). He was created with Evil desires for the purpose of testing us, sifting us as wheat. He was the destroyer in Egypt when Moses had the firstborn of Egypt killed and when the Israelites put blood on their Door, so the destroyer would Pass-over them. He asked permission from God to test Job(Job.1:1-6).

    God is responsible for creating Satan exactly the way he wants him to be, but Satan is accountable for the choices he made and makes and even Satan will eventually benefit from all this, because once his purpose of spreading evil and testing us comes to conclusion, God will cause him to be good, God will be "All in All."

    There is a section in the Free-Will series by Ray, a Subheading Titled " Whence Satan " which should help you, maybe I'll look it up for you, had a typed copy, but can't find it right now.


                                  Kind Regards, Samson.
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mharrell08

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 11:00:16 AM »

In this verse it says that Satan speaketh of his own. I'm curious what that means, of his own.

Roy


Of his own as in his own nature, who and what he is:

John 8:44  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [RSV]

John 8:44  "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [ASV]


Marques
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Samson

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 11:04:08 AM »

I'm still studying the Free Will subject so please bear with me if I ask so elementary question/s about this.

Gen 3:14 - And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle..."

Question: What did the serpent do that God cursed him?  If it is "beguiling Eve", didn't he just do what he was designed to do?


 From the Lake of Fire Series(Free Will, part c), Read below this excerpt regarding Satan and events in the Garden of Eden.

ONE OF THESE CREATED WICKED FORCES WAS A SERPENT

“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made” (Gen. 3:1).

This God-created serpent deceived Eve (I Tim. 2:14).  God “made” “the serpent” who “deceived” Mother Eve. Notice that God did not create something called “Lucifer,” that was “…more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.” If this “serpent” is indeed, “the Devil,” then the Scripture plainly tells us that this was a beast  “…which the Lord God had made.”

God told Adam and Eve:

“But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”

Satan the Serpent, however, said:

“Ye shall not surely die” (Gen. 3:3 & 4).

The Old Serpent, the Devil, LIED!

Now then, was there ever a time when the Devil was not a liar?

“Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44).

Satan the Devil was a liar  “…from the beginning.” But didn’t he once “abide IN the truth” before he became Satan? Never.

The phrase, “…and abode not in the truth…” is proof against any such theory. Someone suggested that Satan once did stand in the truth, and this verse is telling us that he “…did not continue standing in the truth…” That is not what this phrase is stating. Notice a few other translations of this phrase:

Young’s Literal Translation: “…and in the truth he has not stood….”

Green’s Interlinear Greek-English New Testament: “…and he has not stood in the truth…”

Emphatic Diaglott Interlinear: “…has not stood in the truth…”

No, Satan the Devil has never stood in the truth. He was a liar and a murderer “…from the beginning.” And so we have proof that God created Satan just as he is.

About five times a year I get a long email from someone trying to prove to me that the “serpent in the Garden” was not Satan, but Adam’s carnal mind, or some other such thing. God tells us, however, who Satan really is: “that old serpent." Proof:

“And the great dragon was cast out, that Old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan”  (Rev. 12:9).

Is this not the same “crooked serpent and dragon” mentioned in Isa. 27:1 which God will yet punish:

“In that day the Lord with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea”  (Isa. 27:1).

The word “liviathan” means: “SERPENT.”

The word “dragon” means: “figuratively the constellation of the dragon; a sea SERPENT.”

God is not going to “punish” a constellation in the sky or a fish in the sea. This is speaking of that great and wicked spirit: Satan, the Devil, that Old serpent, the dragon, the crooked serpent, the destroyer, the accuser, the Adversary.

Did “…the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan…” (Rev. 20:2), form himself out of a perfect angel/cherub, or did God form this serpent as he now is? Answer:

“By His spirit He [God] has garnished [adorned] the heavens; His hand has formed the crooked serpent”  (Job 26:13).

God did not form a perfect cherub named Lucifer who then became the crooked serpent.

Satan was not an “Angel of Light which transformed himself into Satan,” as the Christian Church teaches, but rather:

“And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: or ‘disguised’—Strong’s #3345] into an angel of light” (II Cor. 11:14).

The “Lucifer became Satan” fable is Scripturally contradicted by the “Satan pretends to be an angel of light” truth.

Satan the serpent is a destroyer:

“Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer” (I Cor. 10:10).

What is this “destroyer?” The word is taken from the Greek word, olothreutes, and guess what it means? It means “venomous SERPENT.” This serpent is a “destroyer.” God “formed the crooked serpent,” and this serpent is a “destroyer.” Isn’t that the very purpose for which God created this “venomous serpent/destroyer?”

“Behold I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for his work; and I [God] have created the waster [Heb: ‘destroyer’] to destroy”  (Isa. 54:16).

Another reference to this destroyer:

“The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way…”  (Jer. 4:7).

God had “sown His word into Adam and Eve.” When the serpent appeared unto Eve, she still had that “sown word in her heart”—“But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said [this is the word of God which was still sown in Eve’s hear speaking—she retained it, and knew what God had said, and knew it to be the ‘word of God’], ‘Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die’” (Gen. 3:3).

The Word of God was sown to both Eve and Adam “by the way” and Eve certainly “heard” the Word in her ear, and took it “to heart.” But it obviously was not well rooted. It had not as yet become part of her spiritual character. And so the serpent came on the scene very quickly:

“And the serpent said unto the woman, ‘Ye shall not surely die. For God does know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil” (Ver 4-5). 

The serpent appealed to Eve’s carnal mind and took away the word of God. Next:

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes… she took of the fruit thereof, and DID EAT…”  (Ver. 6).

Now then, just who is it that Jesus tells us plainly “takes away the word” when it has not had time to be properly rooted? Answer:

“And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, Satan comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts”  (Mark 4:15).

It was the serpent in the Garden, which took away the word of God from Eve. Hence we have proof that “the serpent” was “that Old serpent—Satan.”

 And although God said that “He” destroyed and killed the firstborn of Egypt, there is one verse that specifically tells us Whom it was that God used to accomplish this slaughter:

“For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood upon the lintel, and the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer [permit] the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you” (Ex. 12:23).

We now have a mountain of Scriptural proof that Satan is “the serpent,” and that he has always been the serpent from his creation:

Satan is identified as:  “…that Old SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan…” (Rev. 12:9 & 20:2).

God is going to punish “liviathan,” and liviathan means, SERPENT. (Isa. 27:1).

God calls this adversary, “…the piercing SERPENT…” (Isa. 27:1).

God also calls him, “…that crooked SERPENT…”  (Isa. 27:1).

God calls him, “that dragon…” Dragon comes from a Hebrew word meaning: sea SERPENT. (Isa. 27:1).

God says, “…I have created the waster [Heb: ‘destroyer’] to destroy”  (Isa. 54:16). In I Cor. 10:10 we learn that those who murmured in ancient Israel, and the first born of Egypt
 
“…were destroyed by the destroyer,” (I Cor. 10:10 and Ex. 12:23),
 
and the word translated destroyer in I Cor. 10:10 means, “venomous SERPENT.”

And according to Job, Who was it that formed this “crooked serpent” in the first place?
 
“…By His spirit He [God] has garnished the heavens; His hand has formed the crooked SERPENT”  (Job 26:13).

Jesus said that “Satan comes immediately and takes away the Word.”  Eve had God’s Word, and it was taken away by the serpent, hence, Satan is the SERPENT.

Was the Garden serpent a fallen cherub or was he a “serpent which God had made” AS a serpent?
 
“Now the SERPENT was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made”  (Gen. 3:1).

In Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 Satan is called “that OLD SERPENT.” Could any serpent be older than the one God had made at creation and placed in the Garden?

Satan deceived our first parents in the Garden, and he has been deceiving the whole world ever since. There is absolutely not one scrap of Scriptural proof that Satan was a perfect cherub or that he has EVER exercised a power known as free will.

Satan thinks he has free will. Eve thought she had free will. All mankind still thinks he has free will. But the Scriptures disprove it over and over and over again.

                       Hope this helps, Samson.

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mmijares

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 11:18:43 PM »

Thank you for your response Marques and Samson.  I still don't get it though why God needed to say "Because you have done this..." eventhough He expected from the beginning Satan would tempt Eve.

Maybe there is more with "THIS" thing....just maybe.

-Mijares  ???
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mharrell08

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 01:11:12 AM »

Thank you for your response Marques and Samson.  I still don't get it though why God needed to say "Because you have done this..." eventhough He expected from the beginning Satan would tempt Eve.

Maybe there is more with "THIS" thing....just maybe.

-Mijares  ???


Maybe we need to accept God at His Word. The scriptures speak of us conforming our minds to the Word of God [Eph 4:23, Phil 2:5], not the other way around.

Think about it...why would God say anything since He knows what is to happen? Why would He continue to admonish Israel when He knew from the beginning that they would not walk in His statutes? Why would Christ continue to reprimand the Pharisees when He spoke in parables for the explicit purpose for them to NOT understand?

You can be tossed to and fro with this line of thinking all throughout the Bible...it's being carnal minded. To the carnal mind, the Word of God doesn't seem to 'fit' with it's line of thinking. And the carnal mind's way of thinking does not 'fit' within the scriptures. That's why it's called faith...if everything lined up in such a perfect way for our carnal minds, we wouldn't need faith.


Marques
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Roy Martin

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 10:48:32 AM »

 Its all just one of the ways God conceals things until the time comes. There can be twenty witnessing scriptures, and one little phrase that will cause doubt of 20 scriptures. All the dos and don'ts, or this and that is just a part of the mystery. Its a very clever way to confuse the blind keeping them from seeing the truth. And its also a way to cause one to dig deeper into the word of which can only be done by Gods inspiration. If one refuses the truth over one little twist then that is because God wills it to be that way for a time.
 If one will examine their entire life of thoughts and actions; I mean every little detail then you can see that God is the cause of all things, even though He said don't do this, and because you have done this. Anyone that has raised children know all to well that when we tell a child not to do something or this will hurt you to do that, well we know for sure the child will do it, but we don't just say nothing and let them do what they want. Its how they learn obedience and lessons. I read somewhere that an undisciplined child feels unloved. Not that they think it consciously, but rather a feeling that even the child is unaware of, but it shows in their behavior and emotions.
 Its okay to see a scripture that is confusing, or that will cause doubt in other areas of the scriptures. Its just the way God works, and proof that He causes everything. Put all the scriptures in line on one side of paper that says, All will be saved, and put just one on the opposite side that seems to say something different. Only God can make you see just that one, and ignore the others. We can't do that on our own. If it were any other book that did that then we would be able to see it, but when it comes to Gods word we are no match for His cleverness.
  Has anyone ever put a jigsaw puzzle together and came to those pieces that were so close to fitting, and you want to trim it to fit, or push it in, but we don't because we know it won't be right in the end, but there are those that will trim or smash it in and have problems with the entire puzzle once they do that. This is real, and people do it with Gods word. It doesn't work on a puzzle and it doesn't work in Gods word except for those that He wants it to work on.

Peace
Roy
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 11:05:02 AM by Roy Martin »
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mmijares

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Re: "Because you have done this..."
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 10:50:39 PM »

Again, thank you Marques for reminding of carnality and of faith.

Roy, I pray God will not let me to continue in blindness and give me the desire AND TIME (I'm dead busy meeting both ends meet) to sit down and really study scriptures just like Samson (Wow, 5 hours!).

Mark, you're right. Although I already knew that the conversation in Genesis (Adam, where are you?) is just the way God leveling His thoughts to ours, this "because you have done this" seemed to slip my understanding.

Thank you all...really, thank you.

-Mijares
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