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About God
Dave in Tenn:
Hi Ron. I hope it is encouraging to you to know that there are some who don't find these things confusing. It was encouraging for me in the beginning. That means there is hope for all of us. :) In fact, the outcome is guaranteed.
What is confusing to me is to try to think of a God who is Omnipresent (everywhere all at once) but lacks the ability to know and understand what it is He's looking at. I would think "Omnipotence" would have that covered.
Theological terms are always confusing. They make them that way to hold on to their priesthood, I think. ;) George is right. It takes unlearning first. That's the first and most important repentance. "Jesus is Lord" is much, much more than a religious catch-phrase.
ericsteven:
Hi Arcturus,
My apologies if my post came across as a disagreement with Ray’s teaching. I didn’t mean to suggest that I disagreed with Ray at all when I wrote “Ray’s view.” I totally agree that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament and I agree with the verse you provided. I guess I wrote “Ray’s view” to make the distinction between what he teaches and what the church as a whole understands. Perhaps I shouldn’t have phrased it that way. Sorry for any confusion.
Nonetheless, my question remains. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Eric
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: ericsteven on January 10, 2010, 03:43:43 PM ---I have a question that I think pertains to this subject.
Is Jesus Christ omniscient? Did the Father reveal everything to Jesus as the Creator at the very beginning, or has it been a process for Him as it has been for us?
--- End quote ---
I would say yes...Jesus is not a man with only 2 eyes, 2 arms, 2 legs, etc. Jesus is spirit [2 Cor 3:17] and by Him (as spirit) all the universe holds together. But all His power and glory comes from the Father. The Father does the works THROUGH His Son...He does not need to show Jesus anything seeing they have the same Spirit. And it is this Spirit which gives life and by it all things consist.
Heb 2:10 For it became Him [Jesus], for whom are all things, and by whom are all things...
Col 1:15-17 Who [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him [Jesus], and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
Acts 17:24 & 28 God that made the world and all things therein...For in Him we live, and move, and have our being
Just my thoughts...it always seems confusing when it is inferred that the Father and Jesus do things individually. The Father does everything (including speaking) through the Son. I always look at Christ as the spokesman or representative of the Father, what Jesus speaks and what Jesus thinks is what the Father speaks and thinks. Interesting subject...
Thanks Eric,
Marques
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Eric
Thanks for clarifying.
Here is a Scripture to add to your thoughts perhaps.
Heb 5:8 though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
Being "a Son",..... we are yet to be conformed into His Image as a sons and daughters. We have to learn obedience not because Christ was Disobedient, or that He did not understand obedience, but as an example to us disobedient rebellious children we have to pass through what Christ and God have suffered in order that we may come to comprehensive insight and understanding of what is good and what is evil.
This could parallel the teaching by Ray, don't you think, that Christ was not made Sin, but was a sin offering....He was not disobedient....yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered
Arc
aqrinc:
Ron, Eric,
Remember, Jesus Christ Is God Before He became flesh. The perfecting and obedience was for learning and experiencing what His Creation was going through First hand in the flesh. The example for us is' that as a human being, Jesus Christ showed that His total dependence, was on His Father GOD, WHO Is our Father Also.
Heb 5:8 though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
So must we be dependent on GOD in this life, that is why we must enter into His Rest TODAY.
Heb 3:7-9 (ROTHERHAM)
7 Wherefore, according as the holy spirit is saying, "Today, if ever His voice you should be hearing,
8 You should not be hardening your hearts as in the embitterment, In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers try Me in the testing, And were acquainted with My acts forty years."
The Scriptures below are saying a whole lot more than first perceived.
Heb 5:1-5 (DRB=DOUAY RHEIMS BIBLE)
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
Heb 5:3 And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
Heb 5:4 Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was.
Heb 5:5 So Christ also did not glorify himself, that he might be made a high priest: but he that said unto him: Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee.
Heb 5:6 (ROTHERHAM)
As also, in a different place, he saith—Thou, art a priest, age-abidingly, according to the rank of Melchizedek:
Heb 5:7-14 (DRB=DOUAY RHEIMS BIBLE)
7 Who in the days of his flesh, with a strong cry and tears, offering up prayers and supplications to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence.
8 And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered.
9 And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal (eonian) salvation:
10 Called by God a high priest, according to the order of Melchisedech.
11 Of whom we have much to say and hard to be intelligibly uttered: because you are become weak to hear.
12 For whereas for the time you ought to be masters, you have need to be taught again what are the first elements of the words of God: and you are become such as have need of milk and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that is a partaker of milk is unskilful in the word of justice: for he is a little child.
14 But strong meat is for the perfect: for them who by custom have their senses exercised to the discerning of good and evil.
george :).
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