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Author Topic: John 14:14  (Read 5372 times)

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Fester

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John 14:14
« on: January 09, 2010, 10:24:35 PM »

 
Does anyone know if Ray teaches about these verses:
 
John 14:12-14  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].
 
Christian through the years have asked for many things (any thing) in His name and have received not.  I am confused.  Thanks in advance for those who reply.
 
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mharrell08

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Re: John 14:14
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 11:33:26 PM »

 
Does anyone know if Ray teaches about these verses:
 
John 14:12-14  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].
 
Christian through the years have asked for many things (any thing) in His name and have received not.  I am confused.  Thanks in advance for those who reply.


The apostle James spoke about this:

James 4:1-6  From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.


Excerpt from 'Praying by God's Rules' (http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm):

Did Jesus pray as earnestly as it is possible to pray that God would "let this cup pass?" YES, He did.

Did God grant Jesus His desire to "let this cup pass?" NO, He didn’t.

But, did Jesus get His prayer answered? YES, He surely did. How so? Because Jesus’ greater desire was that His Father’s will be done, rather than "let this cup pass." This example from our Lord is the answer to answered pray and it is also the answer to unanswered prayer.

If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don’t get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always. God’s will (that is His intention for the way He has preordained everything to go), will always be done. No prayer has ever changed God’s plan or purpose in any way whatsoever. (Read my series on "free will").

Now then, if it was God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you. Either way, God’s will must be done, and if that is the greatest desire of your prayer for God’s will to be done in your life, then whether you receive some particular favor or you don’t receive it, nonetheless, YOUR PRAYER WILL BE ANSWERED.

I’m, personally, okay with that. Many of my readers may not be okay with that arrangement of things, but nevertheless, that is the way things are and that is the way things will always be—"THY will be done."


Excerpt from Feb '07 Bible Study 'Love' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html):

“BECAUSE FRIENDS DON’T LET FRIENDS DRIVE DRUNK.”

That a spiritual statement.  Because friends don’t let friends drive drunk, most of the time.  When we want what we want and when we want it, and wonder why God doesn't give it to us.  It’s because we want to get spiritually drunk, and we want to drive in this world spiritually drunk and friends don’t let friends drive drunk.  Christ won’t let you do what could kill you, spiritually.  So there is a reason why you don’t get everything you want, when you want it.  There’s even more.

We don’t get it, because maybe it would be okay to have it, but He is building strength in His Saints,
spiritual strength.  Those that can do without and still love God for not having what they think they need, now what do we call that?  We call that living by faith, see.  If you get everything you need, everything you want, everything you desire, you don’t have faith for anything.  It’s when you don’t see a way out of the spiritual prison that Christ has put you in.  It’s got a door with bars and windows with bars and there is no way out, you have got to pay the price.  (This is in my next installment, by the way, part D.)  There is no way out, you got to pay the utter most for it.  You say, 'I don’t even know what it is.'  God knows!

Christ puts you in prison sometimes.  You have to live by faith, you have no choice but to live by faith.
Either that or give up on God, and throw it all away and say I’m through with this living Godly stuff.
You got to live by faith and hopefully that’s what we’re doing.



Hope this helps,

Marques

P.S. I know Ray doesn't mention the verse in question directly, but as you can see, the principle of receiving what one prays for is covered in great detail.
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aqrinc

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Re: John 14:14
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 11:36:45 PM »

Hi Fester,

Here is some work from Ray, this should answer your questions.

Excerpt from: What is The Gospel Of The Kingdom.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.msg90161.html#new

GREATER WORKS

But just like when God said to Israel, I’m choosing you, it was a shadow.  Now Christ came and we say, at last now we have the real thing.  That was right, He was the real thing.  He was the Seed! 

But part of this gospel involves judging, right.  Peter said it involves judging the quick and the dead.  Did Jesus Christ judge the quick and the dead when He was here?  Some of this remains and has yet to a fulfillment and it has to.  I will tell you why it has to.  Jesus Christ told His disciples…

John 14:12  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.

He healed the sick, gave vision to the blind, caused the lame to walk, caused the dead to live…  you’re going to do greater things than that.  Oh really?  And what might that be Lord? 

I’ve had people ask me numerous times, ‘Ray can you walk on water, have you raised the dead, have you…?’  As a matter of fact I have.  Which is greater, to raise somebody back to physical life, so that they can physically die again or to raise someone who is spiritually dead to spiritual life?  God is doing greater things through the called, chosen, Elect few of His church, than He did in His own ministry, when He fed 5000, walked on the water, calmed the storm, healed the sick and raised the dead.  He said we would do… “greater things,” they are greater.  They are not greater if you’ve got a carnal mind, they are not greater then, it sounds like foolishness.  That’s what it will sound like to you, unless you have the spiritual mind to see it. 

I get email back to back, one says, ‘Ray I’m in tears, I’m blown away, I never knew there was such a God.  I never knew that the Scripture said such marvelous things as you are telling us.’ 
And then I get another email, ‘May you rot in hell you s_o_b_ , you son of Satan.’  Two emails back to back!  You tell me what’s the difference… seed of the woman through Christ - seed of the devil.

So when Jesus read this many among them had already heard it, maybe the day before He had came into this synagogue in this village.  If you read the Scripture it says every town, every city, every village, every hamlet and everywhere there was a synagogue He was there.  He taught this Scripture and they saw that He did these things.  But what do we read in John…

John 6:63  It is the Spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing…

But He healed the sick… the flesh profits nothing, but He caused the blind to see… the flesh profits nothing. 

V. 63 …The words that I speak to you are SPIRIT and are life.

‘You mean these words that He quoted to every village and town and hamlet and city in Jerusalem and Judea and all around Galilee, you mean all these words are Spirit?’  That’s what He said, I believe Him.  These are words of Spirit.  He’s not talking about giving sight to the blind, who can’t see the sunset.  He talking about giving spiritual sight to those that are spiritually blind!  The words of Christ are Spirit, there fulfillment are Spirit. 

Christ has a kingdom made up of heavens - people who in their heavens, have God dwelling.  This is Spirit!  Spirit is more real than physical, because physical is temporary, Paul tells us.  This kingdom will last, Daniel says.  This kingdom is not going to be over turned in so many years by some more powerful nation. 

george :).

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Fester

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Re: John 14:14
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 12:15:57 AM »

  
Thanks for the help guys your wisdom is much appreciated.
 
To me however this is a kind of wide open almost anything goes statement.  Here is what I think when I read it {my thoughts}.
 
John 14:12-14  Verily, verily, I say unto you {anyone}, He that believeth on me {I believe in and have faith in God and His Son}, the works that I do shall he do also {I can't do or know of anyone who can do what He did}; and greater [works] than these shall he do {who has done these greater works than Him?}; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever {kind of wide open like absolutely anything} ye shall ask in my name {have done that as we all have}, that will I do {nop not done}, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask any thing {once again done by me} in my name {yes I have}, I will do [it] {once again not been done!}.
 
NIV:  I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
 
I know if I was there in person and heard that what I would be thinking.  Wow if I believe in Him whatever I ask for will happen.  Plus I will be able to do things (works) and even greater things (works) than He did.  Then others will see and the Father will get the credit and be glorified.
 
Well this has never happened to anyone that I am aware of.  The Apostles never achieved it either.  It would appear to be deceitful to the audience.
 
I am obviously having problems getting my head around this.
 
Thanks again.
 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 01:13:52 AM by Fester »
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G. Driggs

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Re: John 14:14
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 08:26:12 AM »

Hi Fester, I think Marques and George pretty much covered your question with their responses, but just to add, remember Jesus only spoke in parables, and theses verses are not to be taken literally. You also need at least a second witness.

Joh 14:12  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Joh 14:13  And whatever you may ask in My name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14  If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

Joh 16:23  And in that day you shall ask Me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you shall ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
Joh 16:24  Before now you have asked nothing in My name; ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be full.
Joh 16:25  I have spoken these things to you in PARABLES, but the time is coming when I shall no more speak to you in parables, but I will show you plainly of the Father.

None of the Apostles understood Jesus' parables until after His ascension and the Helper came to them.

As Ray would say, the Bible is one big parable.

Hope this helps

Peace, G.Driggs
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mharrell08

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Re: John 14:14
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 12:21:05 PM »

 
Thanks for the help guys your wisdom is much appreciated.
 
To me however this is a kind of wide open almost anything goes statement.

As does the church. That is why they teach their followers to pray for health, wealth, and prosperity. For the carnal mind, it is an open ticket to all the lusts of the heart. To those who are mindful of the spirit, it is to pray in accord with God Will's, not our own.


 
  Here is what I think when I read it {my thoughts}.
 
John 14:12-14  Verily, verily, I say unto you {anyone}, He that believeth on me {I believe in and have faith in God and His Son}, the works that I do shall he do also {I can't do or know of anyone who can do what He did}; and greater [works] than these shall he do {who has done these greater works than Him?}; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever {kind of wide open like absolutely anything} ye shall ask in my name {have done that as we all have}, that will I do {nop not done}, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask any thing {once again done by me} in my name {yes I have}, I will do [it] {once again not been done!}.
 
NIV:  I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
 
I know if I was there in person and heard that what I would be thinking.  Wow if I believe in Him whatever I ask for will happen.  Plus I will be able to do things (works) and even greater things (works) than He did.  Then others will see and the Father will get the credit and be glorified.

No scripture is it's own interpetation [2 Pet 1:20], one day everyone will believe this verse but right now hardly anyone does. Again from James epistles (and he WAS there):

James 4:1-6  From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

 
Also, it's not about YOU...it's not about you doing great things but God working IN YOU ['we are His workmanship'] for His good pleasure.

Well this has never happened to anyone that I am aware of.  The Apostles never achieved it either.  It would appear to be deceitful to the audience.
 
I am obviously having problems getting my head around this.
 
Thanks again.

Acts 3:4-9  Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. And all the people saw him walking and praising God:

Acts 28:8-9  ...it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him. So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed:


And as George pointed out, almost every member of this forum has had their spiritual eyes opened to God's Truth through this ministry. That's what is more important and is lasting...the flesh profits NOTHING, it is the spirit that gives life.

The Words of Christ are not deceitful, but one seeking to fulfill his own lusts and desires is what's deceitful.


Marques
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 02:11:50 PM by mharrell08 »
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Marky Mark

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Re: John 14:14
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 01:35:49 PM »

Joh 14:12  `Verily, verily, I say to you, he who is believing in me, the works that I do--that one also shall do, and greater than these he shall do, because I go on to my Father;
Joh 14:13  and whatever ye may ask in my name, I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son;


Just a thought.

Since Jesus is perfection and we are not,and the words that Jesus spoke are Spirit,and we know that only the Spiritually discerned can and will understand Scripture,and that these words were written for those that for only by the Grace of God can have an understanding of the Word, and the Truths therein, I believe that Jesus is talking to His elect, and, in part, of their functions and requests answered through Christ in yet the future Kingdom of Christ,here on earth, because the flesh profits nothing and Spirit is Life.

Being rulers with Christ does not take away from the fact that all is still of and for the Father through Christ and that Jesus is still the King of kings and Lord of lords. The elect will do great things in judgement just as Jesus did in His ministry 2000 years ago.

Correction welcome.


Peace...Mark
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