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Author Topic: Rev. 15:3  (Read 2155 times)

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Oatmeal

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Rev. 15:3
« on: January 10, 2010, 03:31:57 AM »

Righteousness in Chinese is: 義 which is 羊 sheep above 我 me.  That's not what I originally wanted to talk about.  I was experimenting to see if I could include Chinese characters OK (I noticed that soberxp has put them in OK).  However the Greek characters below have NOT come out OK.

Quote from Ray's critique of a sermon by John Hagee:

-------------
Christ reigns over these two eons because Rev. 15:3 plainly tells us that He is "King of the eons." Except the King James Version, that is. The King James has it "King of saints." The "exact" Greek word in this verse is "eons," not "saints" or "nations." The Greek word for "saints" is agion not aions.
----------------

Of the Strong's that comes with two different on-line KJVs on my computer, one says "hagios", and one says Strong's Greek number 40, which points to "hagios", but it also has a note saying "saints: or, nations, or, ages".

Looking at some Greek NT's

Hort and Westcott has aiwnwn = aionon (using a letter by letter transliteration into English)

Two versions have agiwn = agion (I didn't add an "h")

Two versions have eqnwn = ephnon (I don't know the meaning, perhaps it means “nations”).

How does one know which Greek version is correct? 

Am I straining at (opps KJV) OUT a gnat?  Ray was so authoritative: (quote) "The "exact" Greek word in this verse is "eons,"" that I didn't want to miss out on a definitive answer.
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From Micah 7:9:  By the grace and call of Yahweh I will bear the trials of the narrow way, because I have no love, until He fully shows me my sin and I am judged by Him.  He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall see His righteousness.

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Rev. 15:3
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 11:30:01 AM »

Righteousness in Chinese is: 義 which is 羊 sheep above 我 me.  That's not what I originally wanted to talk about.  I was experimenting to see if I could include Chinese characters OK (I noticed that soberxp has put them in OK).  However the Greek characters below have NOT come out OK.

Quote from Ray's critique of a sermon by John Hagee:

-------------
Christ reigns over these two eons because Rev. 15:3 plainly tells us that He is "King of the eons." Except the King James Version, that is. The King James has it "King of saints." The "exact" Greek word in this verse is "eons," not "saints" or "nations." The Greek word for "saints" is agion not aions.
----------------

Of the Strong's that comes with two different on-line KJVs on my computer, one says "hagios", and one says Strong's Greek number 40, which points to "hagios", but it also has a note saying "saints: or, nations, or, ages".

Looking at some Greek NT's

Hort and Westcott has aiwnwn = aionon (using a letter by letter transliteration into English)

Two versions have agiwn = agion (I didn't add an "h")

Two versions have eqnwn = ephnon (I don't know the meaning, perhaps it means “nations”).

How does one know which Greek version is correct? 

Am I straining at (opps KJV) OUT a gnat?  Ray was so authoritative: (quote) "The "exact" Greek word in this verse is "eons,"" that I didn't want to miss out on a definitive answer


I'm not sure about the exact translation of this verse, but either way is correct. There are plenty of other scriptures which testify of Christ reigning in the next age, and the one after. As well as scriptures that testify of Him being King of Kings, which is referencing us, His Saints.

Heb 1:8  Yet to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon... [CLV]

Rev 17:14  These will be battling with the Lambkin, and the Lambkin will be conquering them, seeing that It is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with It are called and chosen and faithful [CLV]



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Kat

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Re: Rev. 15:3
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 12:23:34 PM »


Hi Oatmeal,

This might be a bit of a information overload, from all this I don't know which way it should be, maybe "Saints" as the Greek Interlinear has it, but I thought it was interesting.

Young's Literal Translation
Rev 15:3  and they sing the song of Moses, servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, `Great and wonderful are Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty, righteous and true are Thy ways, O King of saints,

Rotherham
Rev 15:3 and they sing the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb, saying—Great and marvelous, are thy works, Lord, God, the Almighty! Righteous and true, are thy ways, O King of the ages!

Concordant
Rev 15:3 And they are singing the song of Moses, the slave of God, and the song of the Lambkin, saying, "Great and marvelous are Thy acts, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Thy ways, King of the eons!"

The Message Bible
Rev. 15:3.They sang the Song of Moses, servant of God; they sang the Song of the Lamb: Mighty your acts and marvelous, O God, the Sovereign-Strong! Righteous your ways and true, King of the nations!

Complete Jewish Bible
Rev 15:3.They were singing the song of Moshe, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: "Great and wonderful are the things you have done, ADONAI, God of heaven's armies! Just and true are your ways, king of the nations!

Bishops
Rev 15:3  And they sang the song of Moyses the seruaunt of God, and the song of the lambe, saying: Great and marueylous are thy workes Lorde God almightie, iust and true are thy wayes thou kyng of saintes.

CODEX SINAITICUS: The New Testament translated from the Sinaitic Manuscript
Rev 15:3 And they sung the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: Great and wonderful are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Greek Interlinear Bible
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev15.pdf
And they sing the song of
Moses the servant of God, and
the song of the Lamb, saying,
Great and marvellous [are] thy
works, Lord God Almighty;
just and true [are] thy ways,
thou King of saints.

Textus Receptus
Rev 15:3 καὶ ᾄδουσιν τὴν ᾠδὴν Μωσέως δούλου τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὴν ᾠδὴν τοῦ ἀρνίου λέγοντες Μεγάλα καὶ θαυμαστὰ τὰ ἔργα σου κύριε ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ δίκαιαι καὶ ἀληθιναὶ αἱ ὁδοί σου ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν ἁγίων

Barnes Commentary
however, is “King of nations” -ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν ἐθνῶν ho basileus tōn ethnōn - instead of “King of saints” - τὼν ἁγιῶν  tōn hagiōn.

King James
Rev 15:3  AndG2532 they singG103 theG3588 songG5603 of MosesG3475 theG3588 servantG1401 of God,G2316 andG2532 theG3588 songG5603 of theG3588 Lamb,G721 saying,G3004 GreatG3173 andG2532 marvellousG2298 are thyG4675 works,G2041 LordG2962 GodG2316 Almighty;G3841 justG1342 andG2532 trueG228 are thyG4675 ways,G3598 thou KingG935 of saints.G40

New American Exhaustive Concordance
G40
ἅγιος
hagios; from a prim. root; sacred, holy: - Holy (92), holy (62), Holy of Holies (1), holy one (5), holy ones (1), holy place (7), most holy (1), saint (1), saints (59), saints’ (1), sanctuary (2).

King James Concordance
G40
ἅγιος
hagios
Total KJV Occurrences: 231

holy, 168
Mat_1:18, Mat_1:20, Mat_3:11, Mat_7:5-6 (2), Mat_12:32, Mat_24:15, Mat_25:31, Mat_27:53, Mat_28:19, Mar_1:8, Mar_1:24, Mar_3:29, Mar_6:20, Mar_8:38, Mar_12:36, Mar_13:11, Luk_1:15, Luk_1:35 (2), Luk_1:41, Luk_1:49, Luk_1:67, Luk_1:70, Luk_1:72, Luk_2:23, Luk_2:25-26 (2), Luk_3:16, Luk_3:22, Luk_4:1, Luk_4:34, Luk_9:26, Luk_11:13, Luk_12:10, Luk_12:12, Joh_1:33, Joh_7:39, Joh_14:26, Joh_17:11, Joh_20:22, Act_1:2, Act_1:5, Act_1:8, Act_1:16, Act_2:4, Act_2:33, Act_2:38, Act_3:14, Act_3:21, Act_4:8, Act_4:27, Act_4:30-31 (2), Act_5:3, Act_5:32, Act_6:3, Act_6:5, Act_6:13, Act_7:33, Act_7:51, Act_7:55, Act_8:15, Act_8:17-19 (3), Act_9:17, Act_9:31, Act_10:22, Act_10:38, Act_10:44-45 (2), Act_10:47, Act_11:15-16 (2), Act_11:24, Act_13:2, Act_13:4, Act_13:9, Act_13:52, Act_15:8, Act_15:28, Act_16:6, Act_19:2 (2), Act_19:6, Act_20:23, Act_20:28, Act_21:11, Act_21:28, Act_28:25, Rom_1:2, Rom_5:5, Rom_7:12 (2), Rom_9:1, Rom_11:16 (3), Rom_12:1, Rom_14:17, Rom_15:13, Rom_16:16 (2), 1Co_2:13, 1Co_3:17, 1Co_6:19, 1Co_7:14, 1Co_7:34, 1Co_12:3, 1Co_16:20, 2Co_6:6, 2Co_13:12, 2Co_13:14, Eph_1:4, Eph_1:13, Eph_2:21, Eph_3:5, Eph_4:30, Eph_5:27, Col_1:22, Col_3:12, 1Th_1:5-6 (2), 1Th_4:8, 1Th_5:26-27 (2), 2Ti_1:9, 2Ti_1:14, Tit_3:5, Heb_2:4, Heb_3:1, Heb_3:7, Heb_6:4, Heb_9:8, Heb_10:15, 1Pe_1:12, 1Pe_1:15-16 (4), 1Pe_2:5, 1Pe_2:9, 1Pe_3:5, 2Pe_1:18, 2Pe_2:21 (3), 2Pe_3:2, 2Pe_3:11, 1Jo_2:20, 1Jo_5:7, Jud_1:20 (2), Rev_4:7-8 (4), Rev_6:10, Rev_11:2, Rev_14:10, Rev_18:20, Rev_20:6, Rev_21:2, Rev_21:10, Rev_22:19

saints, 60
Mat_27:52, Act_9:13, Act_9:32, Act_9:41, Act_26:10, Rom_1:7, Rom_8:27, Rom_12:13, Rom_15:25-26 (2), Rom_15:31, Rom_16:2, Rom_16:15, 1Co_1:2, 1Co_6:1-2 (2), 1Co_14:33, 1Co_16:1, 1Co_16:15, 2Co_1:1, 2Co_8:4, 2Co_9:1, 2Co_13:12-13 (2), Eph_1:1, Eph_1:15, Eph_2:18-19 (2), Eph_3:8, Eph_3:18, Eph_4:12, Eph_5:3, Eph_6:18, Phi_1:1, Phi_4:22, Col_1:2, Col_1:4, Col_1:12, Col_1:26, 1Th_3:13, 2Th_1:10, Phm_1:5, Phm_1:7, Heb_6:10, Heb_13:24, Jud_1:3, Jud_1:14, Rev_5:8, Rev_8:3-4 (2), Rev_11:18, Rev_13:7, Rev_13:10, Rev_14:12, Rev_15:3, Rev_17:6 (2), Rev_18:24, Rev_20:8-9 (2)

most, 1
Jud_1:20

saint, 1
Phi_4:20-21 (2)

saints’, 1
1Ti_5:10


mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 05:59:31 PM by Kat »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Rev. 15:3
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 05:25:00 PM »

(WNT)  And they were singing the song of Moses, God's servant, and the song of the Lamb. Their words were, "Great and wonderful are Thy works, O Lord God, the Ruler of all. Righteous and true are Thy ways, O King of the nations.

 (ISV)  They sang the song of God's servant Moses and the song of the lamb: "Your deeds are spectacular and amazing, Lord God Almighty. Your ways are just and true, King of the nations.

Nations, Saints or Ages, it is all one! It is like many Titles applicable to One Name.

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Arc
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 05:26:42 PM by Arcturus »
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