I (thought about) leaving for a while.

[Lupac]

I've tried and tried to have faith. I'm not giving up on God or anything. I just, I can't figure out what's true and what's not. Today, while searching around, I found out the Hebrews (Correct me if I'm wrong.) viewed the earth as flat, with the sky being a kind of dome. How is that more enlightened than what others around them believed? (Unless you believe the world really is flat.) I can't understand all of this. Thank you all for putting up with me.

[EKnight]

Lupac,

Matthew 7:7  "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Eileen

[jerreye]

Hi Lupac, I can feel your frustration. (I can relate to you).

First off, the Hebrew people were FULL of disbelief. Many of them worshiped hand made idols and even passed their firstborns through the fire to a pagan god named Molech! They also mocked and crucified their prophesied Messiah, even though Daniel told them the exact year He would come to them (Daniel 9:24-27)! I mean, how blind does one have to be? I think believing that the earth is flat pales in comparison to this.

All of these things are preordained, as "ALL is of God". He has a grand plan. Hardening people's hearts in the process is simply a means to an end. How else can God truly display His attributes, such as mercy, unless He makes some as vessels unto dishonor (in order to SHOW mercy on them)?

"He has concluded all (including the Hebrews) in UNBELIEF...SO THAT He may have mercy upon them ALL."

We need to "keep on truckin"! We need to overcome and trust God, even though sometimes it is the hardest thing we can do. And believe me, I'm talking to myself just as much as you

I will pray for you.

Cheers,
Jeremy

[Lupac]

Hi Lupac, I can feel your frustration. (I can relate to you).

First off, the Hebrew people were FULL of disbelief. Many of them worshiped hand made idols and even passed their firstborns through the fire to a pagan god named Molech! They also mocked and crucified their prophesied Messiah, even though Daniel told them the exact year He would come to them (Daniel 9:24-27)! I mean, how blind does one have to be? I think believing that the earth is flat pales in comparison to this.

All of these things are preordained, as "ALL is of God". He has a grand plan. Hardening people's hearts in the process is simply a means to an end. How else can God truly display His attributes, such as mercy, unless He makes some as vessels unto dishonor (in order to SHOW mercy on them)?

"He has concluded all (including the Hebrews) in UNBELIEF...SO THAT He may have mercy upon them ALL."

We need to "keep on truckin"! We need to overcome and trust God, even though sometimes it is the hardest thing we can do. And believe me, I'm talking to myself just as much as you

I will pray for you.

Cheers,
Jeremy

It's not so much that the Hebrews believed it, as much as the creation account in Genesis seems to support it. Does it? Also, when Satan brought Jesus to the "high mountain", where He could see "all the kingdoms of the world", it seems to support it.

(I wish I wasn't so fearful. I am still afraid of hell, and a lot of other things.)

[frecklegirl417]

Hi Lupac, I can feel your frustration. (I can relate to you).

First off, the Hebrew people were FULL of disbelief. Many of them worshiped hand made idols and even passed their firstborns through the fire to a pagan god named Molech! They also mocked and crucified their prophesied Messiah, even though Daniel told them the exact year He would come to them (Daniel 9:24-27)! I mean, how blind does one have to be? I think believing that the earth is flat pales in comparison to this.

All of these things are preordained, as "ALL is of God". He has a grand plan. Hardening people's hearts in the process is simply a means to an end. How else can God truly display His attributes, such as mercy, unless He makes some as vessels unto dishonor (in order to SHOW mercy on them)?

"He has concluded all (including the Hebrews) in UNBELIEF...SO THAT He may have mercy upon them ALL."

We need to "keep on truckin"! We need to overcome and trust God, even though sometimes it is the hardest thing we can do. And believe me, I'm talking to myself just as much as you

I will pray for you.

Cheers,
Jeremy

It's not so much that the Hebrews believed it, as much as the creation account in Genesis seems to support it. Does it? Also, when Satan brought Jesus to the "high mountain", where He could see "all the kingdoms of the world", it seems to support it.

(I wish I wasn't so fearful. I am still afraid of hell, and a lot of other things.)

   My dear young brother,

                We are all afraid of one thing or another but to let those fears run our lives lets in the doubt and pushes out the love our Heavenly father has for us. When you feel these fears creeping up on you PRAY! You have to have a little faith in yourself and what our creater has given you. Stop questioning what he has given you and look at it has away for him to open your eyes and your heart to him. Their are hundreds of people you are not has lucky has we are to know just a clipse into his truth. You need to stop and study what is in front of you and not look for other ways to create doubt in yourself. Our Heavenly Father chose you for a reason and it is not for you at this time to questionit. Let is love show through and stop pushing him away he just wants to keep you safe. I know this may not make sense, but in time it will. We here at BT have studied and continue to study but we open our hearts and our ears and let him guide us,  not others or our fears. So, take a deep breathe and open the door to your heart and he will show you the way instead of you trying to bang your head against the wall looking for  the right direction.

                                                                       Your sister,
                                                                              frecklegirl

[Ninny]

Bryant, You keep searching until you find what you're looking for ..Because God has given you this mind to ask...don't fear..that's easy to say when you don't feel the fear like you do..but all I can say is to keep giving those fears to God...You are so intense about everything, this is good and bad...but you know God has not given us a mind to fear..we are overcomers and you are too! I wish I had all the answers or even SOME of the answers for you..but I am just as fearful as the next person...I have to give my fears and anxieties to God every day...It's all a process and learning how to cope with the process..is a process, too!!
I'm pulling for you, buddy! I'm praying and asking God to help me to be a help to you..as I'm sure we all are. We want you to overcome your fears and your worries and we all want you to learn to cast all your care on Him! You'll have my prayers for as long as you need them!
Kathy

[aqrinc]

Lupac,

Think for a minute, where will you go to hide when you go for a while. Where could Jonah Hide when he did not want to preach to Nineveh? nowhere. Stay away from the sea, or you may be riding in a fish for a while.

Read this Psalm and know that: you can run, but there is no place to hide:

Psa 139:1-24 (BBE)
1  To the chief music-maker. A Psalm. Of David. O Lord, you have knowledge of me, searching out all my secrets.
2  You have knowledge when I am seated and when I get up, you see my thoughts from far away.
3  You keep watch over my steps and my sleep, and have knowledge of all my ways.

4  For there is not a word on my tongue which is not clear to you, O Lord.
5  I am shut in by you on every side, and you have put your hand on me.
6  Such knowledge is a wonder greater than my powers; it is so high that I may not come near it.

7  Where may I go from your spirit? how may I go in flight from you?
8  If I go up to heaven, you are there: or if I make my bed in the underworld, you are there.

9  If I take the wings of the morning, and go to the farthest parts of the sea;
10  Even there will I be guided by your hand, and your right hand will keep me.

11  If I say, Only let me be covered by the dark, and the light about me be night;
12  Even the dark is not dark to you; the night is as bright as the day: for dark and light are the same to you.

13  My flesh was made by you, and my parts joined together in my mother's body.
14  I will give you praise, for I am strangely and delicately formed; your works are great wonders, and of this my soul is fully conscious.
15  My frame was not unseen by you when I was made secretly, and strangely formed in the lowest parts of the earth.

16  Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book all my days were recorded, even those which were purposed before they had come into being.

17  How dear are your thoughts to me, O God! how great is the number of them!
18  If I made up their number, it would be more than the grains of sand; when I am awake, I am still with you.

19  If only you would put the sinners to death, O God; go far from me, you men of blood.
20  For they go against you with evil designs, and your haters make sport of your name.

21  Are not your haters hated by me, O Lord? are not those who are lifted up against you a cause of grief to me?
22  My hate for them is complete; my thoughts of them are as if they were making war on me.

23  O God, let the secrets of my heart be uncovered, and let my wandering thoughts be tested:
24  See if there is any way of sorrow in me, and be my guide in the eternal (eonian) way.

We walk by Faith From GOD, not by what we see.

2Co 5:4-8 (CLV)
4 For we also, who are in the tabernacle, are groaning, being burdened, on which we are not wanting to be stripped, but to be dressed, that the mortal may be swallowed up by life."

5 Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the spirit."

6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord"
7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."

george.

[Lupac]

Lupac,

Think for a minute, where will you go to hide when you go for a while. Where could Jonah Hide when he did not want to preach to Nineveh? nowhere. Stay away from the sea, or you may be riding in a fish for a while.

Read this Psalm and know that: you can run, but there is no place to hide:

Psa 139:1-24 (BBE)
1  To the chief music-maker. A Psalm. Of David. O Lord, you have knowledge of me, searching out all my secrets.
2  You have knowledge when I am seated and when I get up, you see my thoughts from far away.
3  You keep watch over my steps and my sleep, and have knowledge of all my ways.

4  For there is not a word on my tongue which is not clear to you, O Lord.
5  I am shut in by you on every side, and you have put your hand on me.
6  Such knowledge is a wonder greater than my powers; it is so high that I may not come near it.

7  Where may I go from your spirit? how may I go in flight from you?
8  If I go up to heaven, you are there: or if I make my bed in the underworld, you are there.

9  If I take the wings of the morning, and go to the farthest parts of the sea;
10  Even there will I be guided by your hand, and your right hand will keep me.

11  If I say, Only let me be covered by the dark, and the light about me be night;
12  Even the dark is not dark to you; the night is as bright as the day: for dark and light are the same to you.

13  My flesh was made by you, and my parts joined together in my mother's body.
14  I will give you praise, for I am strangely and delicately formed; your works are great wonders, and of this my soul is fully conscious.
15  My frame was not unseen by you when I was made secretly, and strangely formed in the lowest parts of the earth.

16  Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book all my days were recorded, even those which were purposed before they had come into being.

17  How dear are your thoughts to me, O God! how great is the number of them!
18  If I made up their number, it would be more than the grains of sand; when I am awake, I am still with you.

19  If only you would put the sinners to death, O God; go far from me, you men of blood.
20  For they go against you with evil designs, and your haters make sport of your name.

21  Are not your haters hated by me, O Lord? are not those who are lifted up against you a cause of grief to me?
22  My hate for them is complete; my thoughts of them are as if they were making war on me.

23  O God, let the secrets of my heart be uncovered, and let my wandering thoughts be tested:
24  See if there is any way of sorrow in me, and be my guide in the eternal (eonian) way.

We walk by Faith From GOD, not by what we see.

2Co 5:4-8 (CLV)
4 For we also, who are in the tabernacle, are groaning, being burdened, on which we are not wanting to be stripped, but to be dressed, that the mortal may be swallowed up by life."

5 Now He Who produces us for this same longing is God, Who is also giving us the earnest of the spirit."

6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord"
7 (for by faith are we walking, not by perception),
8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."

george.

Thank you, but I'm not trying to run from anything. I trying to run toward God, but I keep falling into pits.

[Joel]

Isaiah 40 v 22, It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that streacheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:-- I don't see a flat earth in this scripture. Hope that helps you there.
Here is a scripture God gave me as a young believer--- Proverbs 3: 5&6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.
You are at a good place for direction. enduring to the end is not easy.
Peace, Joel

[jerreye]

Hi Lupac, I can feel your frustration. (I can relate to you).

First off, the Hebrew people were FULL of disbelief. Many of them worshiped hand made idols and even passed their firstborns through the fire to a pagan god named Molech! They also mocked and crucified their prophesied Messiah, even though Daniel told them the exact year He would come to them (Daniel 9:24-27)! I mean, how blind does one have to be? I think believing that the earth is flat pales in comparison to this.

All of these things are preordained, as "ALL is of God". He has a grand plan. Hardening people's hearts in the process is simply a means to an end. How else can God truly display His attributes, such as mercy, unless He makes some as vessels unto dishonor (in order to SHOW mercy on them)?

"He has concluded all (including the Hebrews) in UNBELIEF...SO THAT He may have mercy upon them ALL."

We need to "keep on truckin"! We need to overcome and trust God, even though sometimes it is the hardest thing we can do. And believe me, I'm talking to myself just as much as you

I will pray for you.

Cheers,
Jeremy

It's not so much that the Hebrews believed it, as much as the creation account in Genesis seems to support it. Does it? Also, when Satan brought Jesus to the "high mountain", where He could see "all the kingdoms of the world", it seems to support it.

(I wish I wasn't so fearful. I am still afraid of hell, and a lot of other things.)

Hi Lupac,

What part of the Genesis account gives you the impression that it teaches a "flat earth"? I don't see where it would suggest that.

As far as Satan's great temptation to Jesus about "all the kingdoms of the earth", this is clearly allegorical in nature. Notice the entire verse:

Luke 4:5 "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

If this is a literal event, how can Satan show anyone all the kingdoms of the earth (even if the earth was flat), "in a MOMENT OF TIME", on a literal mountain? This is impossible and Luke knew this. This "exceeding high mountain" symbolizes the highest point of human imagination and desire. This is Satan's greatest attempt at gaining the worship of Jesus. He offered Jesus everything he had! Remember, Satan has the power of showing great signs and lying wonders...

2 Thess 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with ALL POWER and SIGNS and LYING WONDERS."

Don't give up, Lupac. There is always an answer if you search for it! Seek and you WILL FIND

Cheers,
Jeremy

[Lupac]

I wasn't going to post this, but I'm tired of being unsure. (Although, it probably won't be long before something else gets me... WHAT is wrong with me?) Thank you Jerreye. Here's what got me thinking about it.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5806/1359/1600/Cosmos.png

Supposedly, this is what the Hebrews, all the way back to Moses, believed the earth was like. It's part of a longer article I won't post. (I feel like a complete failure.)

[jerreye]

Hey Lupac,

I wouldn't put so much emphasis on what some of the ancient Hebrews may or may not have believed. What they may or may not have believed doesn't prove anything. Most of them did not believe God. Even though God miraculously led them out of Egypt, they still fell in disbelief and wandered in the desert for 40 years. All this proves is that they did not believe God. So if God flat-out told them that the earth was round, they would probably not believe it!

Cheers,
Jeremy

[Lupac]

I'm going to bed now, but I think the point was, if we take Genesis 1 literally. That's what it describes. I'm not defending the wrong view, just trying to find the truth.

[lauriellen]

i am quoting something i read just last night:

"So it also is with the Lord as the written Word. As we need it and can receive it, God will reveal it to us (Mat 11:27).
The degree of understanding given by God seems to correlate with the degree of need and hunger in the individual. "My strength is made perfect in weakness. (2Cor 12:9)."

this really hit home for me....hope it helps you, too.
lauriellen