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Being in Spirit

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Roy Martin:
 Hello everyone.
 
I can't count the times I've read it that you have to be in spirit to see or understand, or statements to someone seeking understanding that they are seeing it with a carnal mind and not spiritual. Sometimes it would seem to be offensive to some to be told you are carnal, and I'm spiritual as if we can choose to be in spirit any time we choose.
 What exactly is being in Spirit? I speak for myself that I can't choose to be in Spirit. In fact I don't know that I have ever been in Spirit. It is the Spirit that has revealed things to me even when I wasn't thinking about it. I wasn't in spirit when God called me to cry out to him and start seeking Him when I didn't believe in Him, or love Him, or know Him in any way. The Spirit has come on me many times, but its not one of those things that seems to always be there, nor something I chose.
 I understand that one persons spiritual understanding can't be someone Else's understanding unless the Spirit moves in them, or comes upon them to see it.
 Worship and pray and see and understand in Spirit. I can't choose to do this, but the Spirit can come upon me to do it.
 So for me to tell someone that they are carnal and I'm spiritual is just something I don't feel comfortable with anymore. I have told a few people that, and offended them. They took it as me putting myself above them even though I phrased it in a way trying not to make them feel less than me.
  This post is asking how we can be in spirit by choice. I've tried many times to be in Spirit, but it never happens when I want it or try to choose it. It doesn't bother me to be told I'm not in Spirit, but it use to. I don't even try anymore to be in Spirit. I don't even know what it means, but I do know what it is to have the spirit come on me, and I like it very much when it does. Most of the time I'm carnal until the Spirit comes on me and then I'm carnal again. Not saying I'm caught up in sin, although I probably sin everyday in some way, but I also die each day, which means the spirit is working in me, but am I in spirit for this to happen? I don't know. It seems like I've always been in a carnal state when the spirit moved in me. Its like I have to be carnal to know the spirit comes upon me, like having to know the opposite to see the good. I'm not thinking I should try to be carnal. I would like to be with the Spirit on me all the time, but its not happening I don't think in this life of mine, but who knows?
 If someone is seeing things with a carnal mind then that's okay. It just seems like there is a better way to say this to someone without saying I'm spiritual and your carnal.

Peace
Roy

Craig:

--- Quote ---saying I'm spiritual and your carnal
--- End quote ---

I don't know who said this, but I sure don't agree.  Saying we are in "spirit" leads to all kind of confusion and trickery, it is how the charlatans of religion work their magic.

I can stand in front of a room full of people and read a sentence that says "lions are ferocious killers".  Then I can look everyone in the eye and say this sentence is really saying lions are meek pussycats.  When I get the blank looks from those listening, I then say "for you to understand what I'm saying you must be in the "spirit", like I am.  That seems to seal the deal because a high percentage in the audience will shake their heads yes! and proclaim I'm a spiritual person.  In reality I know less then them.

You cannot fully understand any scripture or teaching that has been revealed by God to Ray, unless the Spirit of God reveals it to you.  You cannot will the Spirit of God to be in you, or reveal to you, any more than you can "will" that you won't ever sin.  It is by God's good pleasure that we know anything.  We are all carnal, and His words are spirit, that does not mean we are spiritual, we can only have His Spirit as he allows it.  Even when God does reveal something to us by His Spirit, we are still yet carnal.

So if someone says you must be spiritual to understand a teaching or scripture they are wrong, God's spirit and understanding must be residing in you to let you understand.  The problem we all have is that we seem to think we can rush God into revealing to us, and if He doesn't then we use our own carnal understanding and reasoning to fool ourselves into thinking we are spiritual and have understanding.  In that case we are carnal of the worst kind.  I don't fully understand anything of God, I don't fully understand many things Ray teaches about, but I don't rush it either.  When I first came to the forum several years ago, I was like anyone else, I read the "good news" I felt in my soul I was being revealed the truth and I wanted to know more/the rest, right away.  But believe me, that is not how it works, God reveals to me in His own good time.  I see questions that I had from several years ago, become clear, by no reason of my own, it is God that reveals them to me in His perfect timing.  And that is just the way I want it. 

Remember, patience is a virtue.

Craig

Roy Martin:
Absolutely Craig.
 People are led here by the spirit. Some come here for other reasons than the truth, but those with a sincere hunger which is a spiritual influence, and they ask questions, but they still don't get it yet; just as you said being in a hurry. Seeking truth in spirit, but not receiving an understanding of it, and then be told they are seeing it carnally which seems to be in conflict with the spiritual seeking of the truth and understanding of it. I see it here all the time that someone is being carnal because they aren't seeing it yet, even though they are here by the Spirit and because of the Spirit.
 I agree with you 100% Craig. I was trying to point out something that you did a better job than I did. I didn't want to be accused of teaching that its wrong to tell someone they are being carnal or seeing something in the flesh when the Spirit is the one guiding them. I don't know if being led by the spirit is the same thing as being in Spirit and don't know if it even matters. It seems to be the same to me.

Peace
Roy

Samson:
Hi Roy,

          I don't know exactly if I'm interpreting you correctly, so please forgive if my comment is incorrect. My impression from your Post is that your saying: Some people seem to think their better or elevate themselves by saying someones Carnal in their thinking leaving the implication the person saying this is Spiritual and above you or better. I don't believe that I've seen this lately, but can't say it's never happened, but there's a good point from Dennis Vogel's Post at the Thread: Message for the Stubborn saying that We can't hear a person's tone of voice or read their facial expression and it's easier to be rude in person at a Forum, because it's in writing and not Face to Face. See His Post from that Thread for further details. Also, I especially liked Paragraph 3 from Craigs Post prior to mine which I copied and pasted below in blue, I believe it speaks volumes about the Carnal Nature and the Spiritual revealed.

So if someone says you must be spiritual to understand a teaching or scripture they are wrong, God's spirit and understanding must be residing in you to let you understand.  The problem we all have is that we seem to think we can rush God into revealing to us, and if He doesn't then we use our own carnal understanding and reasoning to fool ourselves into thinking we are spiritual and have understanding.  In that case we are carnal of the worst kind.  I don't fully understand anything of God, I don't fully understand many things Ray teaches about, but I don't rush it either.  When I first came to the forum several years ago, I was like anyone else, I read the "good news" I felt in my soul I was being revealed the truth and I wanted to know more/the rest, right away.  But believe me, that is not how it works, God reveals to me in His own good time.  I see questions that I had from several years ago, become clear, by no reason of my own, it is God that reveals them to me in His perfect timing.  And that is just the way I want it. 


                             Kind Regards, Samson.

Roy Martin:
Hi Sampson,
 I don't think anyone says this with the thought that they are above someone, or that its meant to sound like that, but the one that receives this reply that they are seeing something carnally; I don't think it fits very well to the one being told that. It can be said with good intentions as it most likely always is, but none the less it is said here, and some take it wrong when they are here in spirit looking for truth and understanding.
 For those that come here as Dennis said, wolves in sheep's clothing that have different beliefs still stuck in the Babylonian system trying to prove we are wrong get told they speak with carnal words etc. and they leave here thinking we think we are above them. How do we not know in their unbelief that God is calling them to the truth by leading them here? I know that God is in control of what they believe, and that it might not matter what people say to them because when the spirit is working in someone and Gods will is being done in them, then nothing anyone can say to them about being carnal really matters.
 Now I'm getting deeper into this topic than I expected. Sorry!.

Roy

Peace
Roy

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