Being in Spirit

[Roy Martin]

 Hello everyone.

I can't count the times I've read it that you have to be in spirit to see or understand, or statements to someone seeking understanding that they are seeing it with a carnal mind and not spiritual. Sometimes it would seem to be offensive to some to be told you are carnal, and I'm spiritual as if we can choose to be in spirit any time we choose.
What exactly is being in Spirit? I speak for myself that I can't choose to be in Spirit. In fact I don't know that I have ever been in Spirit. It is the Spirit that has revealed things to me even when I wasn't thinking about it. I wasn't in spirit when God called me to cry out to him and start seeking Him when I didn't believe in Him, or love Him, or know Him in any way. The Spirit has come on me many times, but its not one of those things that seems to always be there, nor something I chose.
I understand that one persons spiritual understanding can't be someone Else's understanding unless the Spirit moves in them, or comes upon them to see it.
Worship and pray and see and understand in Spirit. I can't choose to do this, but the Spirit can come upon me to do it.
So for me to tell someone that they are carnal and I'm spiritual is just something I don't feel comfortable with anymore. I have told a few people that, and offended them. They took it as me putting myself above them even though I phrased it in a way trying not to make them feel less than me.
 This post is asking how we can be in spirit by choice. I've tried many times to be in Spirit, but it never happens when I want it or try to choose it. It doesn't bother me to be told I'm not in Spirit, but it use to. I don't even try anymore to be in Spirit. I don't even know what it means, but I do know what it is to have the spirit come on me, and I like it very much when it does. Most of the time I'm carnal until the Spirit comes on me and then I'm carnal again. Not saying I'm caught up in sin, although I probably sin everyday in some way, but I also die each day, which means the spirit is working in me, but am I in spirit for this to happen? I don't know. It seems like I've always been in a carnal state when the spirit moved in me. Its like I have to be carnal to know the spirit comes upon me, like having to know the opposite to see the good. I'm not thinking I should try to be carnal. I would like to be with the Spirit on me all the time, but its not happening I don't think in this life of mine, but who knows?
If someone is seeing things with a carnal mind then that's okay. It just seems like there is a better way to say this to someone without saying I'm spiritual and your carnal.

Peace
Roy

[Craig]

saying I'm spiritual and your carnal

I don't know who said this, but I sure don't agree.  Saying we are in "spirit" leads to all kind of confusion and trickery, it is how the charlatans of religion work their magic.

I can stand in front of a room full of people and read a sentence that says "lions are ferocious killers".  Then I can look everyone in the eye and say this sentence is really saying lions are meek pussycats.  When I get the blank looks from those listening, I then say "for you to understand what I'm saying you must be in the "spirit", like I am.  That seems to seal the deal because a high percentage in the audience will shake their heads yes! and proclaim I'm a spiritual person.  In reality I know less then them.

You cannot fully understand any scripture or teaching that has been revealed by God to Ray, unless the Spirit of God reveals it to you.  You cannot will the Spirit of God to be in you, or reveal to you, any more than you can "will" that you won't ever sin.  It is by God's good pleasure that we know anything.  We are all carnal, and His words are spirit, that does not mean we are spiritual, we can only have His Spirit as he allows it.  Even when God does reveal something to us by His Spirit, we are still yet carnal.

So if someone says you must be spiritual to understand a teaching or scripture they are wrong, God's spirit and understanding must be residing in you to let you understand.  The problem we all have is that we seem to think we can rush God into revealing to us, and if He doesn't then we use our own carnal understanding and reasoning to fool ourselves into thinking we are spiritual and have understanding.  In that case we are carnal of the worst kind.  I don't fully understand anything of God, I don't fully understand many things Ray teaches about, but I don't rush it either.  When I first came to the forum several years ago, I was like anyone else, I read the "good news" I felt in my soul I was being revealed the truth and I wanted to know more/the rest, right away.  But believe me, that is not how it works, God reveals to me in His own good time.  I see questions that I had from several years ago, become clear, by no reason of my own, it is God that reveals them to me in His perfect timing.  And that is just the way I want it. 

Remember, patience is a virtue.

Craig

[Roy Martin]

Absolutely Craig.
People are led here by the spirit. Some come here for other reasons than the truth, but those with a sincere hunger which is a spiritual influence, and they ask questions, but they still don't get it yet; just as you said being in a hurry. Seeking truth in spirit, but not receiving an understanding of it, and then be told they are seeing it carnally which seems to be in conflict with the spiritual seeking of the truth and understanding of it. I see it here all the time that someone is being carnal because they aren't seeing it yet, even though they are here by the Spirit and because of the Spirit.
I agree with you 100% Craig. I was trying to point out something that you did a better job than I did. I didn't want to be accused of teaching that its wrong to tell someone they are being carnal or seeing something in the flesh when the Spirit is the one guiding them. I don't know if being led by the spirit is the same thing as being in Spirit and don't know if it even matters. It seems to be the same to me.

Peace
Roy

[Samson]

Hi Roy,

          I don't know exactly if I'm interpreting you correctly, so please forgive if my comment is incorrect. My impression from your Post is that your saying: Some people seem to think their better or elevate themselves by saying someones Carnal in their thinking leaving the implication the person saying this is Spiritual and above you or better. I don't believe that I've seen this lately, but can't say it's never happened, but there's a good point from Dennis Vogel's Post at the Thread: Message for the Stubborn saying that We can't hear a person's tone of voice or read their facial expression and it's easier to be rude in person at a Forum, because it's in writing and not Face to Face. See His Post from that Thread for further details. Also, I especially liked Paragraph 3 from Craigs Post prior to mine which I copied and pasted below in blue, I believe it speaks volumes about the Carnal Nature and the Spiritual revealed.

So if someone says you must be spiritual to understand a teaching or scripture they are wrong, God's spirit and understanding must be residing in you to let you understand.  The problem we all have is that we seem to think we can rush God into revealing to us, and if He doesn't then we use our own carnal understanding and reasoning to fool ourselves into thinking we are spiritual and have understanding.  In that case we are carnal of the worst kind.  I don't fully understand anything of God, I don't fully understand many things Ray teaches about, but I don't rush it either.  When I first came to the forum several years ago, I was like anyone else, I read the "good news" I felt in my soul I was being revealed the truth and I wanted to know more/the rest, right away.  But believe me, that is not how it works, God reveals to me in His own good time.  I see questions that I had from several years ago, become clear, by no reason of my own, it is God that reveals them to me in His perfect timing.  And that is just the way I want it. 


                             Kind Regards, Samson.

[Roy Martin]

Hi Sampson,
I don't think anyone says this with the thought that they are above someone, or that its meant to sound like that, but the one that receives this reply that they are seeing something carnally; I don't think it fits very well to the one being told that. It can be said with good intentions as it most likely always is, but none the less it is said here, and some take it wrong when they are here in spirit looking for truth and understanding.
For those that come here as Dennis said, wolves in sheep's clothing that have different beliefs still stuck in the Babylonian system trying to prove we are wrong get told they speak with carnal words etc. and they leave here thinking we think we are above them. How do we not know in their unbelief that God is calling them to the truth by leading them here? I know that God is in control of what they believe, and that it might not matter what people say to them because when the spirit is working in someone and Gods will is being done in them, then nothing anyone can say to them about being carnal really matters.
Now I'm getting deeper into this topic than I expected. Sorry!.

Roy

Peace
Roy

[Marky Mark]

Hello Roy.Here is a partial email reply from Ray. Kind of sums up, to me at least, as to what Spirit is and how it is applied.

  http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1594.0.html

God's Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And some verse.

John 14:16–17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 14:26
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26
26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

John 16:14
14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.



Peace...Mark

[mharrell08]

What exactly is being in Spirit?

Hello Roy,

I think it can help if we all understand what exactly 'being in spirit' is. I wouldn't even use the term 'being in spirit' but rather having spiritual discernment or understanding.

1 Cor 2:12-14  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To me, it is more of a state of mind and an understanding in our hearts. I don't believe for you, myself, or anyone else this is something that 'comes and goes' but rather something that continues to come into our remembrance to keep us in the faith.

My wife and I had a discussion once about the following passage:

Heb 6:4-6  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

v7-8 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Now, for my wife who is NOT a believer, the only thing she understood this verse to state is 'that it is impossible to renew them again to repentance'. That's it...she didn't even bother to keep reading verses 7 & 8 and she thought this passage interpreted itself.

I have no qualms in saying this: that is a carnal mindset at work in her understanding. She already THINKS that not all will be saved so that's all she sees. God has not opened her eyes to the spiritual discernment needed to understand all of this message.

The very end of verse 8, 'end is to be burned', explains the fate of those not renewed to repentance. We, as believers, know that burned is symbolic of judgment by fire which produces righteousness. God has given us spiritual discernment to aid our understanding of not only the plan of God, but also Holy and Just Character of God.

Excuse me for going somewhat off-track, but I hope you understand what I mean.

Now, in regards to questions and answers on the forum, every situation I believe is different. Some members simply don't see or understand a particular passage or excerpt from Ray and are asking questions for clarification. There's nothing wrong with that, this activity is to be encouraged, and a member should not be belittled.

On the other hand, some members attempt to justify (not seek understanding but rather state their case) that their interpretation of doctrine is true. It may 'seem' like they are simply asking a question, but they spend their entire post trying to justify their beliefs and conform scriptures to what they are saying instead of 'conforming their minds' to the Word of God. Basically, they want the scriptures to fit their beliefs instead of changing theirs to fit the scriptures. That is being carnal and if members recognize it and call one out for it, I don't see anything wrong with that.

How do we not know in their unbelief that God is calling them to the truth by leading them here? I know that God is in control of what they believe, and that it might not matter what people say to them because when the spirit is working in someone and Gods will is being done in them, then nothing anyone can say to them about being carnal really matters.

1 Cor 11:19  ...there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Matt 7:16 & 20  Ye shall know them by their fruits...

Roy, as I stated above, seeking understanding is not what is carnal and members who do so are not implied as such. Members who are said to be carnal minded are those who are NOT seeking understanding but rather justifying their own pet beliefs. There will continue to be heresies among us to further distinguish those God is truly calling...and we shall know them by their fruits.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Roy Martin]

Hello Roy.Here is a partial email reply from Ray. Kind of sums up, to me at least, as to what Spirit is and how it is applied.

 http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1594.0.html

God's Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And some verse.

John 14:16–17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 14:26
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26
26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

John 16:14
14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.



Peace...Mark

I love those scriptures Mark. When I was in prison and had no one.The people in the church forgot about me, my family also. I got so mad and heartbroken and sick of these people for hurting me when I kept reaching out to them in letters to comfort me. I looked at these scriptures and said." God I'm not asking for this, because you promised it and I claim it. I expect to receive it with arms wide open."  Suddenly, I felt God wrap His arms around me, and many things started to change. He healed my broken heart and put it in me to forgive those that  broke my heart. It had to be that way so I would stop reaching out to people and give it to God first. It all turned out good.

God's Holy Spirit is His Spirit of Holiness which imparts spiritual knowledge and spiritual character to those who possess it. The wicked and unbelievers have a spirit that keeps them alive, but they have no spiritual perception of spiritual truths because they do not possess the Holy Spirit of God living in us through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the words above,( the wicked and unbelievers;) I use to be one of those, and was in complete state of unbelieving when God called me, and dropped me to my knees. I didn't posses the Holy Spirit, or I didn't know it, nor did I know any truth or have any perception of it. Even when I started crying out to Him I was in doubt that He existed, but I didn't give up. What could it hurt I thought.
So was I in spirit, or have the Holy Spirit when I was totally screwed up to no end in carnality and unbelief? Yes I was, but only a little at a time.Even that little bit took many many months to get me starting to believe.
I just can't know when someone has the Spirit, or is in Spirit, considering how it was with me.
Even the wolf might not know that the spirit is fixing to drop him to his knees as they are trying to prove us wrong in their visits here scoping out some prey.
Roy

[Roy Martin]

Marques, I was typing as you were posting, and I was informed of your post and read it before posting my last one, but since I had it typed I thought I'd send it anyway.
Yes Marques, I understand what you are saying, and hope I haven't been rambling too much with this topic of which as I said, got more attention than I expected, but its all good and opened some new doors for me, and closed a window or two or vise verse.
Thanks Mark and Marques, Craig and Sampson and anyone else that replies and your time.

Roy

[daywalker]

Hello Roy,


In regards to 'being in Spirit', I think you understand more than you realize. The proof is in your contradicting statements:

In fact I don't know that I have ever been in Spirit. It is the Spirit that has revealed things to me even when I wasn't thinking about it.

How do you suppose that the Spirit has revealed things to you, if not by you being IN Spirit? Anytime the Spirit reveals something to you, you are IN Spirit at that time!

The Spirit has come on me many times, but its not one of those things that seems to always be there, nor something I chose.

Well of course not. Even the apostles weren't in Spirit ALL the time. Notice:

Rev 1:9-10
I John, who also am your brother... was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet...

John says he was in Spirit on that day as God revealed to him the prophecies of Revelation. But why would he say that if he was ALWAYS in Spirit???

What do you think it means when the Spirit COMES UPON YOU? Is that not being IN Spirit? If not, then what is it?

I wasn't in spirit when God called me to cry out to him and start seeking Him when I didn't believe in Him, or love Him, or know Him in any way. 

To quote Ray, "Oh Really?" And how do you suppose that you, who DID NOT BELIEVE in God, and DID NOT LOVE Him, and DID NOT KNOW Him "in ANY way", suddenly decide to answer God's Call IF not in Spirit?


As far as calling people carnal--though I agree there is a right way to do it, and there is a 'self-righteous' way to do it--please also remember that the Apostle Paul accused his followers several times of being "yet carnal"; yet this same Paul also tells us to "follow his example"... That would include the example of letting fellow brothers know when they are acting 'carnally' correct?


I say this all in Love. God Bless You,

Christopher 

[Roy Martin]

Very good Christopher, I'm glad you caught and noticed all of that. I did contradict myself didn't I,? but it was to make a point that we never know when one is in spirit.
Some would have thought I was not in spirit, and at first I didn't know it. Its just been in this thread that I realize that, spirit coming upon us, and being in spirit is the same thing. For someone to have told me I wasn't in Spirit would have been in error. There was a time at first that some one told me it was the Holy Spirit coming on me, and I didn't believe them. The Holy Spirit is definitely a wonderful thing. It would be nice to feel it all the time, or at least more of it than this carnal mind.
It was taken in Love;

Peace
Roy

[daywalker]

The Holy Spirit is definitely a wonderful thing. It would be nice to feel it all the time, or at least more of it than this carnal mind.

It was taken in Love;

Peace
Roy

I could not agree with you more!!! 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Roy

Eph4:3 is very beautiful and to appreciate its fullness I have copied vs 1 and 2.  It explains how we are to recognize one another. Long-suffering is part of the process.

Eph 4:1  I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the calling with which you are called,
Eph 4:2  with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love,
Eph 4:3  endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:3 endeavoring to KEEP the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ray points out that the unity of the Spirit is not something we have to create or make. The Unity of the Spirit IS KEPT in the bond of peace by forbearing one another in love. It already exists.

It is not something we can put on or choose to be in as you correctly discern. Like Jesus, we can do nothing without the Spirit of God. We know that Christ is Spirit and that His Father too, is Spirit. They are not A Spirit but they are Spirit.

In order to keep the unity of the Spirit we are to bear one another in love which is not the love of the flesh but the Love of God.

Act 17:28  For in Him we live and move and have our being, as also certain of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.

Arc

[Roy Martin]

Marques, I reread your last post with more understanding, and gave it some thought. Its just now sinking in to agree with everything you said.

What exactly is being in Spirit?

Hello Roy,

I think it can help if we all understand what exactly 'being in spirit' is. I wouldn't even use the term 'being in spirit' but rather having spiritual discernment or understanding.

1 Cor 2:12-14  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To me, it is more of a state of mind and an understanding in our hearts. I don't believe for you, myself, or anyone else this is something that 'comes and goes' but rather something that continues to come into our remembrance to keep us in the faith.

My wife and I had a discussion once about the following passage:

Heb 6:4-6  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

v7-8 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Now, for my wife who is NOT a believer, the only thing she understood this verse to state is 'that it is impossible to renew them again to repentance'. That's it...she didn't even bother to keep reading verses 7 & 8 and she thought this passage interpreted itself.

I have no qualms in saying this: that is a carnal mindset at work in her understanding. She already THINKS that not all will be saved so that's all she sees. God has not opened her eyes to the spiritual discernment needed to understand all of this message.

The very end of verse 8, 'end is to be burned', explains the fate of those not renewed to repentance. We, as believers, know that burned is symbolic of judgment by fire which produces righteousness. God has given us spiritual discernment to aid our understanding of not only the plan of God, but also Holy and Just Character of God.

Excuse me for going somewhat off-track, but I hope you understand what I mean.

Now, in regards to questions and answers on the forum, every situation I believe is different. Some members simply don't see or understand a particular passage or excerpt from Ray and are asking questions for clarification. There's nothing wrong with that, this activity is to be encouraged, and a member should not be belittled.

On the other hand, some members attempt to justify (not seek understanding but rather state their case) that their interpretation of doctrine is true. It may 'seem' like they are simply asking a question, but they spend their entire post trying to justify their beliefs and conform scriptures to what they are saying instead of 'conforming their minds' to the Word of God. Basically, they want the scriptures to fit their beliefs instead of changing theirs to fit the scriptures. That is being carnal and if members recognize it and call one out for it, I don't see anything wrong with that.

How do we not know in their unbelief that God is calling them to the truth by leading them here? I know that God is in control of what they believe, and that it might not matter what people say to them because when the spirit is working in someone and Gods will is being done in them, then nothing anyone can say to them about being carnal really matters.

1 Cor 11:19  ...there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Matt 7:16 & 20  Ye shall know them by their fruits...

Roy, as I stated above, seeking understanding is not what is carnal and members who do so are not implied as such. Members who are said to be carnal minded are those who are NOT seeking understanding but rather justifying their own pet beliefs. There will continue to be heresies among us to further distinguish those God is truly calling...and we shall know them by their fruits.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Its good to have those that know the scriptures, or that can clarify something I might be getting twisted in. Thanks Marque.

Peace
Roy

[MePogo]

Not sure I understand "Being in Spirit" but this thread reminded me of an experience many years ago.  My ex-daughter-in-law joined a church that was really weird to me and for 6 months or more pestered me to at least visit the church.  I had no intention of going because I didn't share what she explained the beliefs were.  I was raised high Episcopal and the ritual and formality were in my comfort zone.  Finally, I gave in and agreed to attend a Wednesday night service with her.  She said I shouldn't be so critical if I didn't even visit.  Wow, what an experience.  It began with introductions to many women who all called me "sister" and were actually very welcoming.  Then, in the front, out of a ton of huge speakers, the music rocked.  Everyone began to sway and "Praise God" and seemed to go into a trance.  People fell to the floor, some began  speaking in tongues, repeating nonsense sounds.  A few, I would have sworn, were having seizures.  It was terrifying to me who had never seen anything like that in my life.  The beat of the music seemed so loud that you felt like you were having some kind of psycho experience.  I was really scared and when I couldn't take it any more, literally ran out.  It was explained to me that the wonderful experience I hadn't experienced was because I have been deemed unworthy for my deeds, known only to God, during the previous week.  If one has been without sin during the week, our bodies are good enough to be inhabited by "The Spirit of God."  Then and only then can we feel the joy that these people felt and displayed.  My personal impression was that the brain-numbing thunder of the "music" and the need to show others your purity during the previous week led to a church filled with people trying to out-weird each other.  Imagine the noise, people moaning, others praying loudly, dozens speaking nonsense sounds, rather screaming them....no one listening but each one trying to show their spiritfilled gift as proof of their goodness.  If I'd seen it in a movie, I would have thought it unrealistic.  But there are actually people doing this stuff. If this is being in the Spirit, I thank God for avoiding me.  To me in Spirit is a quiet moment, all too rare, when you talk IN PRIVATE with God.  It is calming and refreshing and just a brief moment when you feel His presence. 

Please forgive me if I'm way off base with this post.  Guess I'm just not sure what Being in the Spirit really is.  But you can bet I experienced what it isn't.  And I don't think it's something you find in a church.

Hugs and blessings to all
Pogo

[elias3013]

What I believe about being in the Spirit and what I think everyone is saying  is as follows:

Once you receive the Spirit of God, He never leaves you. It is His Spirit residing in you that directs your steps and teaches you the truth of His Word as you submit to His leading.

Yes we do have a carnal nature that wars against His Spirit and at times we submit to the desires of that carnal spirit of man that is a part of us, but if we keep in mind that the Holy Spirit that is in us, is more powerful and greater than that carnal spirit and unless we stubbornly reject the leading of God's Spirit, His Spirit will overcome our carnal desires.

We are in the Spirit when we subject ourselves to His leading and are not in the Spirit when we allow our carnal desires to have their way, but as we have been taught, He (His Spirit) will never leave us.

Ron

[Marky Mark]

What I believe about being in the Spirit and what I think everyone is saying  is as follows:

Once you receive the Spirit of God, He never leaves you. It is His Spirit residing in you that directs your steps and teaches you the truth of His Word as you submit to His leading.

Yes we do have a carnal nature that wars against His Spirit and at times we submit to the desires of that carnal spirit of man that is a part of us, but if we keep in mind that the Holy Spirit that is in us, is more powerful and greater than that carnal spirit and unless we stubbornly reject the leading of God's Spirit, His Spirit will overcome our carnal desires.

We are in the Spirit when we subject ourselves to His leading and are not in the Spirit when we allow our carnal desires to have their way, but as we have been taught, He (His Spirit) will never leave us.
Ron

Hello Ron.

   Saying that the Spirit can never leave you is not a true statement.Just because we have been given some Spiritual Truths does not mean that we have a free pass, if you will. Although it is true that all will be saved eventually by Gods Spirit,this none the less takes a mighty work on the part of the Truth seeker.We have to continue in His Faith in order for the Spirit to remain with us.

If you have not read Rays paper on CAN WE LOSE GOD'S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?, may I suggest a read or reread, as necessary, for a better understanding.

Hope this is of some help.



http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html

Col 1:23  IF you continue  in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Is that too hard to understand?  Well lets ask ourselves the question, what do you suppose would happen if we don't continue?  Well this reader says it does not matter, we have it.  IT MATTERS.  "If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..."  See that's how you have it, "IF you continue."  I like how Rotherham says it, I checked the Greek and it does kind of have that connotation, he says; 

Col 1:23 If, at least, ye are abiding still in the faith...

"If, at least" you've got to be doing that, okay.  Then you will have all of these things.  Again the big 'if.'

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation...

So you mean you can receive the truth and you can be locked into all these Scriptures, like this reader says, but then you can do something wrong?  Yes, you can.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Can we lose out... well we read the Scripture that if you sin willfully - willingly there is no more sacrifice for you.  Now look at this verse, many people probably never really saw it before. 

1 John 3:15  Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding (the Greek is "staying or "REMAINING")  in him.

So the Greek is staying or remaining.  Now if you just read that without all the background that I'm giving you, then you get the feeling that, well he won't be given God's abiding life.  No, he already has it.  The only way something cannot stay in you or not remain in you, is if it's in you.  Do you follow that?  It's in you. 

He's not talking to Barbarians here or infidels, he's talking to the congregation who have the spirit of God.  But he says if you hate your brother the spirit of God will no longer stay with you, it will no longer be in you.  If the Spirit of God is not in you, you are no longer His.  Then you are going to the judgment.  That's just how simple that is.  All through these Scriptures if you read carefully, maybe it doesn't have it just like this, but this is just a poor translation.  But if you read Concordant and Rotherham and all, they will tell you to 'stay' - 'remain.'  It means to remain, but it won't remain.  You see it's there, but it's coming out.

Peace...Mark

[elias3013]

Well Mark, I don't really think there is a difference in what we both are saying.

You said: "We have to continue in His Faith in order for the Spirit to remain with us."

I agree with that and I thought that everyone would take that for granted without it having to be said. If it was possible for someone to be given the Holy Spirit of God and they turned from the faith and denied the Lord, the Spirit would be taken from them.

Where we might differ in this is that once someone received the Spirit of God, is is not possible for them to turn from the faith. If it appears that they did turn from the faith (in man's view) they probably never had the Spirit in the first place.

With reference to Heb 10:26 "if we sin willfully" means that if we deny the gospel and turn from the faith". I personally don't think this is possible to do after one has been converted to the truth of God's Word.

God's Word does say in Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"

I prefer to believe His words.

Ron

[Kat]

Hi Ron,

Once you receive the Spirit of God, He never leaves you.

Now that statement is true, IF you are one of the Elect.  

Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"

This statement is true IF we are the Elect.  BUT WE DON'T KNOW if we are one of the Elect for sure, not until we have endured to the end.  And the Scriptures would not warn of this if it were not so.  

Mark 13:13  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

James 5:11  Indeed we count them blessed who endure.

Rev 2:10  ... Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

More from 'CAN WE LOSE GOD'S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.0.html ---

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

Reader:  'In Eph. 1:13-14 we are told that we again are sealed with the Holy Spirit and has given us a pledge of our inheritance now - that is again our assurance that we have salvation now.'

No, we do not have salvation now.  What we have now is a "pledge," that's what it says. Notice that's what it says in verse 14.

Eph 1:14  who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption... (NASB)

But his thing is, 'nope, if it says it, then you have it, you possess it now.'   No it's a "a view to the redemption," a pledge and a view is not possession.  
v
v
(Rotherham) 1 Cor 9:27  But am beating my body under, and leading it captive, lest, by any means,—unto others, having proclaimed, the contest , I myself, should be rejected.

See he was in the contest, then he could be rejected.

(YLT) 1 Cor 9:27  but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others--I myself may become disapproved.

So while you are doing right you are approved, qualified, you're in the race.  But if you give up or you turn or you just sin willfully, willingly, knowingly hate your brother, then it's gone.  It can happen.  Maybe I just need to explain why is that so.

Because the flesh is weak.  Know how much spiritual stuff we know, well we are still very very weak.  If we knew we didn't have to persevere, guess what?  Maybe most of the time or at least some of the time... we wouldn't.  Maybe sometimes you would try to resist the temptation to go out with another woman, if you were married, but not all the time, sometimes you might give in.  So He doesn't tell us.

That's the thing I learned a long time ago, probably at least eight years ago.  The verse that set that off to me was where it says Christ knows those that are His.

John 10:14  I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own...

Well what does that mean?  Christ knows those that are His.  I get from that, that we don't know, we don't.  

Now I have read you from Peter, which is to me, it is a very inspiring Scripture.  Because we are not left totally in the dark.  He is like, well it's Que Sera Sera - maybe you will, maybe you won't.  Now here are some of these promises.  Peter says;

2 Peter 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
v. 5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
v. 6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
v. 7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity (love).
v. 8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

v. 10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF (there that little word "if" again) ye do these things (but here is the consolation, here is the inspiration, the hope and assurance...), ye shall never fall:

Now that's pretty good.  So all these things Paul is talking about here, I bring it into subjection, I bind it, I turn myself into a slave for Christ, lest I myself should be rejected or turned away or unapproved or disqualified.  But IF we "do these things."
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Marky Mark]

I personally don't think this is possible to do after one has been converted to the truth of God's Word.

God's Word does say in Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"
I prefer to believe His words.

God's Word does say in Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"

Before or after our Spiritual conversion?

I personally don't think this is possible to do after one has been converted to the truth of God's Word.

Hi Ron. As Kat has already stated,only if we are of the elect.
John 10:14  I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own...

Spiritual conversion does not take place until the resurrection.
Rev 2:10  ... Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Now when Jesus states that His words are Spirit,well,who are you going to believe?. Man or God. None of us have been truly converted of the Spirit seeing as we are still in the flesh.Only when our physical bodies have been converted into Spiritual bodies can then one say that the Spiritual conversion has happened [speaking of Gods few chosen elect]. Until then we are all yet sinners and not worthy of being called righteous sons of God. All to often we seem to forget that Spirit is life and that flesh is death. If any of us think of Scripture as being anything other than things of the Spirit,we have yet a long way to go in His ways of understanding of what true conversion really means for the faithful believer.

I slip and fall daily in my walk with God,and if not for his mercy and grace,I could not finish what He has planed for me,in my Hope, as a seeker of the Spirit and of the Truth,in His Word. If I believe that the Father can give me the Faith to finish the race, I can also believe that it is only if He wills it to happen in this earthly existence.All things are of God and that includes an understanding that we of ourselves can do nothing, without His hand in it,producing His fruits,in all of His creatures, in His time, and for His good pleasure. Amen.


Peace...Mark