With a heavy heart

[myms]

Please can someone remind me how I'm supposed to respond to the atheists jibe of 'well where is your God now in the tradegy of Haiti'. Somehow I can acknowledge God in my own suffering, I can believe he's in control and bringing about change as I submit to Him in the midst of it, but that faith in His ultimate goodness wobbles when I see the extremities of human suffering that we are witnessing today.

With tears in my eyes

Myms

[Dave in Tenn]

Every evil thing happening in Haiti (and elsewhere) is happening to individuals.  Ask each of them to respond to the atheist's jibes.  Those to whom God has given faith, will "acknowledge God in my own suffering" and "believe He's in control and bringing about change as I submit to Him in the midst of it."  Those to whom God has not yet given faith will not.  Yet, even for those, He is still in control and bringing about change.



   

[Patrick]

The guys on the morning radio show that I listen to were commenting about Pat Robertson's accusations that God did this because Haiti made a "pact" with the devil. I felt it was a good time to reread Ray's article "In The Day Of The Great Slaughter"; http://bible-truths.com/towers.htm.

Having studied Geology for many years, Haiti sits on the Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault system between two tectonic plates, the North American Plate and the Caribbean plate. It's a "strike-slip" zone, as is the San Andreas fault area. The tectonic plates move side to side. Port-au-Prince is only 16 KM (10 miles) away from the epicenter. The experts are saying there has not been a quake in this area in nearly 200 years. The other fault system in the area, the Septentrional, hasn't had any major activity in more than 800 years and the recent events could trigger a quake in that system. I see Google Earth has before and after shots, too bad my dialup takes so long to load that site.
I personally wouldn't respond to an atheists gibe, Stay strong myms!

[myms]

Thank you Dave and Patrick for your responses ...........

Job 4:4 "Your words have helped the tottering to stand, And you have strengthened feeble knees."

Myms

[Deborah-Leigh]

SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT TROUBLED, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.

Arc

[Extol]

Evil and suffering used for a GOOD purpose? The carnal mind cannot understand such a ridiculous concept. They think "Well, if I was God, I'd do it this way, and everything would be good and peaceful and perfect." And since the real God does not work that way, they don't believe. I have a sweet friend who is kind and loving and peaceful. War and violence appal her. I was sharing with her some of my beliefs, and she said "You know why I cannot believe in God? Because there are wars."
Very few people, including believers in God, can understand that God does not just "allow" evil, but creates it and uses it for His good purposes. But like Dave said, even in these, God is in control, and operating all according to the counsel of His will. [Eph. 1:11]

[9440geoff]

Hi Myms,

I cried too when I saw the pictures from Haiti and the suffering of the people there.

But what also brought tears to my eyes was the response from people all over the world. The donations people make to aid organisations such as the Red Cross shows that they care, and that they are in the process of being made into the image of God.

Perhaps that is why disasters happen.

Geoff

[OBrenda]

Hey M,

Perhaps some reasons out of the many our creator has, may be the opportunity for some to feel love and have compassion.
Some may be allowed the privilege to take action personally to help. Other to simply consider as wonderful and brilliant man is, he is not in control of his destiny.

I fear none of this makes sense if you believe there is no redemption beyond the grave. If only heaven or hell awaits all theses (whom we believe are sleeping) that died.  I would agree how cruel, and how could a God allow such chaos?

I was behind some women today in the grocery store.  The cashier was asking the first one woman would you like to donate to the special Olympics or Hatti ? She was enraged and expressed that she was sick and tired of everybody asking for money like her church ext....The second woman in line when asked said No also, and replied when is someone going to give me a donation?  I know the UK is up to date on much of the US problems so I trust you may understand these women's frustrations.  My husband has been out of work for over a year, so I'm acquainted with the reality of possibly losing my home.  By the grace of God, when the cashier asked me if I wanted to donate, I answered yes, gave very little, and thanked God for the opportunity to give to Him.

"Whatever you do for the least of these you do to Me"

You have tears in your eyes because of the love of God shed in your heart.
It is right that we all grieve together over this!
With You M!
Brenda

[gmik]

It is sad of the problems in this life, but necessary for correction in our lives for our next/real life.

At a funeral 2 days ago, I had to listen to some yucky preaching.  I swear preachers don't listen to themselves.  he quoted that God came to save the whole world and then garbled it w/ rapture stuff.  Then he quoted where they are asleep and will rise at the last trump...and then said my uncle was up in heaven looking down on us!!!  and this one....4 days ago, my uncle-on a machine to keep his heart breathing- "accepted" the Lord and "got saved"- he used no quotes that time.

The world & Babylon don't "get" God.  They don't "get" the Bible.  and they are never gonna "get" us.  I was prepared to talk to people maybe to set them straight, but they don't really want to know.

Disasters like Haiti or a tragedy in your personal life-its all of God for reasons he knew before the foundations of the world.  Much good can come out of evil.  And we have to know evil before we can know good.

PS...it was kind of good hearing an old time Baptist preacher...it just made what I have learned at BT and from Ray more crystal clear!

[tamaralv]

Hi Myms,

Don't worry about answering the atheists...they probably wouldn't believe you anyway.  I've tried to tell believers the Truth and if they won't believe then I don't think I'd be much good at convincing an atheist! 
I don't watch much TV anymore....now I spend most of my time reading.  However, when I heard about the earthquake in Haiti I decided to turn the TV on and the images of dead and dying people broke my heart.  I've read and  heard stories about the poverty, disease and crime.  How is it even remotely possible that only 600 miles off the coast of the wealthiest nation in the world sits the POOREST little country in the Western hemisphere?!  These people have been so desperate for so many years while the collective World has sat by watching.  I could go on and on about the forgotten street kids, the starvation and disease, the slavery and mistreatment and the fact that  they lack even basic healthcare. And now an earthquake?!  How much more can these people be expected to endure?  But Myms, what if the answer to their plight was the quake?  Right now Haiti has the attention of the whole world.  Look at the response from  the global community!  This is an opportunity to show just HOW we care for His little ones.  As devistating as this earthquake has been, I see God's fingerprints all over this.  Please don't anyone misunderstand what I'm trying to say.  I in no way agree with Pat Robertson and think the Haitians "deserved" this as punishment!  God loves ALL His creation and that includes the Haitians, Mr. Robertson!  And I don't pretend that I understand all that He is doing but God has everything in His control.   We have to have Faith that He will do as He promises and use this for His good.  Can you imagine the prayers from around the world going out to our Father for the people of Haiti and their rescuers?  The power of prayer is an amazing thing.  May His will be done.


Peace and Love in Christ Jesus,

Tammy 

[EKnight]

You know there can be hope even to atheists.  My 21 year old son who is not a believer, said "you know it could be a good thing that this happened to Haiti-if that's possible-because now all eyes are on Haiti, people are rushing to their aid and they may be able to start anew".....he said something to that effect and this is coming from someone who resists my beliefs.  So my point is, you don't really need to be a bible-toting believer to see something good come from something tragic.  I think people acknowledge this all the time they just don't believe in a God that has the whole world in His hands but someday they'll know.

Well that's my two cents for what it's worth.

Eileen