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Author Topic: The Young Earth theory  (Read 2706 times)

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elias3013

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The Young Earth theory
« on: January 18, 2010, 01:15:52 PM »

I listened to Ray's teaching at the Nashville Conference on Nov 2, 2008 and had this question that maybe someone could answer.

I would Email and ask Ray, but don't want to bother him in this time of distress.

As he debunked the young earth theory, saying that the days were a lot longer than 24 hours, I wondered why he didn't address the scriptures that said "the evening and the morning were the _____ day."

I would think that these words in scripture would make one think that each day was a 24 hour period.

No big deal, but I was just wondering.

Ron
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believerchrist100

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 01:32:08 PM »

Hi Ron,

Here's an excerpt from the "Define Six Days" lecture Ray gave at the 2009 Mobile Conference:

Let’s look at one or two other things here.  This letter that this guy sent me - the one where he said I was begging for money and he anathematised me.  Here is what he said.

Ray,

Here’s the definition of what a day is; “And calling is the Elohim the light "day,” and the darkness He calls "night." And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.” (Gen 1:5 CLV)

A ’DAY’ is the coming of the evening and the coming of the morning, not just the light = day. But it’s both the ‘coming of the evening and the morning,’ that makes a ‘day.’
Let’s hope God gives you the ability to see it.

Okay, let’s look at that a little more deeply.  First of all, I’ve never argued that the coming of the evening and the coming of the morning is not called a day. I never said that. It plainly says it’s a day. Now it could just as easily be called a ‘time’ too.  Because the same word translated “day” is the same Hebrew word that’s translated ‘time,’ so it could be “time one.”  Though they call it “day one,” it could be called “time one.”  I could show you a dozen scriptures where the word yom - day can be translated time.
 
So, I’m not arguing whether or not the scriptures call it a “day,” what I’m arguing is, it’s not what they call a 24 hour day. It’s not 24 hours.

Deuteronomy 10:10 And I stayed in the mount, according to the first time (day--yom), forty days (yom, same word) and forty nights; and the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also, and the LORD would not destroy thee.

Do you see how they translated time?  For the “first time, forty days and forty nights.”
If a day is 24 hours, why did he have to say “and nights”?  If a day is 24 hours, then forty days would be forty times 24 hours, right?  Why then put in forty days AND forty nights?  A day includes the night, doesn’t it? NO. That’s why they put it in, because a day does not include the night. This is so basic to the scriptures and yet there’s hardly a person alive who knows this.  2300 times I think, the word “day” or “days” is found in the Old Testament scriptures and I can’t find one that means 24 hours… not one!  If you know of one, let me know.

There are lots of verses where you’d think, well that’s a 24 hour day, ‘they went on a seven day journey,‘ or something like that, right? Isn’t that seven 24 hour periods? That’s not what it says.  Can the night be included in that?  It can.  Is that what it means? No. You go on a seven day journey, you start out one morning when the sun comes up, you journey one day… the next day, when the sun comes up, you journey another day… the next day… and you journey seven days.  [Attendee: and nights?]  No, they would never ‘journey’ at night, you sleep at night, you rest at night.

So, people try to show me, ‘oh, here’s one Ray. “Six days shall you labour and do your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath.”  There you go.  The Sabbath is a whole day, right?  All day from sunset to sunset, you shall keep your Sabbaths, from evening until evening (Lev. 23:32). So, isn’t this an example of a 24 hour day?’  NO.  ‘How so?’

He’s not telling us to rest and not do any work for 24 hours, He’s only telling us not to work on the Sabbath DAY, during the daylight. How do we know that? Because He reflects back to the fact that we are to work for six days and then rest the seventh day.
How long were the days that they worked? Twelve hour days. They did not work 24 hours a day, day after day after day for six days, before they took a break.  He didn’t say, you shall work for six days and six nights, then you get a break.  Six DAYS.

So that doesn’t prove that a day has 24 hours in it at all. Whenever the night is included, it says so. Then it says, day and night.  [Even Jesus said there were 12 hours in a day.] Yes He did (John 11:9), nobody believes Him.

You can read this whole transcript here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11185.0.html

I hope this helps clear things up somewhat. Basically, the idea of a 24 hour day is foreign to the Bible as day is defined from sunrise to sunset and when it's talking about nights, it says so.

Patrick

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elias3013

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 02:43:03 PM »

Thanks Patrick

I watched a couple of other videos where Ray explained that in detail.

I guess that I expected an explanation when it was first mentioned.

I'll exhibit a little more patience next time.

Ron
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daywalker

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 05:30:21 PM »

I listened to Ray's teaching at the Nashville Conference on Nov 2, 2008 and had this question that maybe someone could answer.

I would Email and ask Ray, but don't want to bother him in this time of distress.

As he debunked the young earth theory, saying that the days were a lot longer than 24 hours, I wondered why he didn't address the scriptures that said "the evening and the morning were the _____ day."

I would think that these words in scripture would make one think that each day was a 24 hour period.

No big deal, but I was just wondering.

Ron

Hello Ron,

Actually, he did address it [big study, you may have missed it.. I've listened to it at least 4 times and still find things I missed...].

Here's a few excerpts:


"Diomedes summarizes this thing about evening and morning by saying; On the earth both evening and morning are both always present.  They are on the earth at every moment at ever changing places.  Where it is morning, in places opposite it is evening.  

It’s always evening and morning at the same time on the earth, at all times.  

This reveals quite an exact comprehension of the illumination of the sun’s light on a spherical earth at a time in history when mankind mostly in western humanity dreaded falling off the edge of the earth.  

Diomedes understood this, that the earth is a sphere and that it is sunrise and sunset at the same time always on the earth.  It never goes away.  You might say it turns around on it’s axes or whatever, but it is always there, it never leaves.  It’s always sunset, it’s always sunrise and he had the sense to see that.

Continuing with Schroeder.

The Hebrew for evening is ‘ereb’ and this is the literal meaning of the word, although the root of the word carries with it implications far beyond that of a setting sun.  What is the visual sensation of an evening?  Darkness begins, object become obscured and blurred.  The root of ereb means just that, mixed up, stirred together, disorderly.

The Hebrew for morning is ‘boqer’ it’s meaning is quite the opposite of ereb.  Morning brings the first light, objects mingled by the dark of night become distinct entities.  This is the root meaning of boqer;  discernable, able to be distinguished, orderly.


It is interesting that Jesus Christ died and was buried in the evening.  When did He rise?  In the morning."


------------------------

"Evening and morning has absolutely nothing to do with the length of the time period that is being discussed.  Has nothing to do with the length of the time.  Evening and morning have to do with a condition.  The evening is a condition that comes about at the end of a day.  Morning is a condition that comes about at the end of a night.  So don’t be coming up with definitions of stuff that don’t exist.  Evening is as it begins to get dark, going from daylight to darkness. That transition period is the evening.  As it goes from dark to becoming light, that division there between darkness and light, that is called morning. It doesn’t last for three hours or six hours or twelve hours, like a day and a night do."


A few more things to keep in mind:

1. A literal 24-hour day begins with the Morning and ends with the Evening; not the other way around as described in Genesis. [obvious, I know.. but sometimes we don't think about these things when studying Scripture.. then someone points it out, and we're like "oh yea, duh!"]

2. The time from a literal Evening to a literal Morning is 12 hours, not 24.

3. The Scripture separates "day" from "night". [God created the Sun and Moon/Stars to separate the day from the night; the great flood was 40 days and 40 nights; Jonah was in the belly of a fish for 3 days and 3 nights; Jesus fasted in the wilderness 40 days and 40 nights; etc...]


Hope this helps.. I would recommend going through Ray's study again sometime; and also his new one from last year if you haven't yet...


Peace.

Daywalker  8)


« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 05:32:54 PM by daywalker »
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Kat

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 07:37:53 PM »


Okay Chris, let's think about this statement you made.

Quote
1. A literal 24-hour day begins with the Morning and ends with the Evening;

What?  That does not add up  ;)  Leave out the "24-hour" part and you have it right.

John 11:9  Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?

Here is an excerpt from the came Nashville conference being referenced.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.html ---

A day is not a 24 hour day, literally.  That is not a literal day.  A literal day is “the light.”
------------------------------------------------------

Just wanted to put this in.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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G. Driggs

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 08:21:09 PM »

Hi Ron, check this from the Fenton Bible.

Gen. 1:1-5 By Periods God created that which produced the Solar Systems; then that which produced the Earth. But the Earth was unorganized and empty; and darkness covered its convulsed surface; while the breath of God rocked the surface of its waters. God then said, "Let there be light;" and light came. And God gazed upon that beautiful light; and God divided the light from the darkness. And to the light God gave the name of Day, and to the darkness He gave the name of Night. This was the close and dawn of the first age.

A benefit of using more than one translation. This one really seems to support what the Spirit teaches us through Ray.

Anyway just though I would share that, peace.

G.Driggs
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Stacey

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 03:53:14 AM »

Nice find there G.Driggs.
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Stacey

daywalker

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 06:05:58 PM »


Okay Chris, let's think about this statement you made.

Quote
1. A literal 24-hour day begins with the Morning and ends with the Evening;

What?  That does not add up  ;)  Leave out the "24-hour" part and you have it right.

John 11:9  Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?

Here is an excerpt from the came Nashville conference being referenced.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.html ---

A day is not a 24 hour day, literally.  That is not a literal day.  A literal day is “the light.”
------------------------------------------------------

Just wanted to put this in.

mercy, peace and love
Kat




Hey Kat,

I was referring to what we [society] today call a 'literal' day; not a biblical day, which would be, as you said, the 12-hour period of light.


Peace.

Daywalker  8)
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rockrdude

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 06:11:27 PM »

I'm not familiar with the Fenton Bible, but that is a fascinating translation, George..
THANK YOU for sharing that!  :)
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Lupac

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 06:36:38 PM »

According to wikipedia, the full name is the "Ferrar Fenton Bible" or the "Holy Bible in Modern English". It's interesting that the OT has 22 books in the FFV, and he changes the order of the NT, John, then 1 John, and then the other Gospels. Acts come directly after Luke. It's very interesting. Also, he re-translates the Psalms to get them as close to being in rhyming and verse form, as well as he could. It's a favorite translation of a group called "British Israelism", and, I don't know what to say about that...
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 06:51:28 PM »

A literal 24 hour day could begin with morning, but it would also need to END with morning.  Likewise, it could begin with evening, but it would also need to end with evening.  Morning-morning=24 hours.  Evening-evening=24 hours.  Approximately.   ;D

What gets me is that 'evening and morning' to my mind makes neither a 24-hour day or a 12-hour 'daylight', but a 'nightime'.  A 'morning and evening' would make a daytime. 

It was my understanding from my chair that 'evening' and 'morning' are also processes which take time themselves to occur. 

No matter how you cut it, what a GREAT way to begin a Book whose Author wants to both reveal and conceal His message.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

gmik

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Re: The Young Earth theory
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2010, 02:38:18 PM »

Wow, this is an interesting thread.  That Fenton Bible was a different take.  If some of you haven't gotten the ISA downloaded, do it, its free, and it gives you the greek and hebrew.  I always go back to check things on it.  Just leave it on your desktop and it is quick and easy.  ISA stands for Interlinear Scriptural Analyzer.
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