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Author Topic: Somdom being returned?  (Read 6711 times)

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Lupac

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Somdom being returned?
« on: January 18, 2010, 02:13:29 PM »

Okay, to me, this always proved that aionion fire was not forever, because in Jude, it says Sodom suffered from "aionion fire". and in Ezekiel 16:55 it says:

Quote
When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, {g} then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

So that should mean that "aionion fire" is NOT everlasting. But, low and behold, while looking at different versions of that verse, I came across the Geneva Stub Bible's commentary. It it says:

{g} "Meaning that it would never come to pass."

Now, I see nothing in that verse that even seems to imply that. But it's got me a little worried. I know the Geneva is a pretty bad version anyway, so it shouldn't be anything. What is your take on it? Thanks.

EDIT: It says the same thing about verse 53, meaning, it will never come to pass. I just don't see how anyone could get that from these verses. Any help?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 03:00:49 PM by Lupac »
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Craig

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 03:02:46 PM »

Those versions are written by man telling the scriptures what to say, not the scriptures telling man what they say.

Craig
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Lupac

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 03:10:31 PM »

Yes, I understand that. It's just, incredible how so many people completely miss the point of a scripture. (And it did have me a little worried.)
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 03:14:02 PM »

2Ti 3:13  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them...

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


That's my take on it.  Wouldn't be much of a delusion if most were not believing and propagating it. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

orchidldy

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 07:04:02 PM »

The commentary writer must believe that the scripture is using sarcasm; i.e., "everyone knows" that neither Sodom nor Samaria will ever be restored.  In other words, "when hell freezes over" ;)
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Lupac

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 07:15:28 PM »

The commentary writer must believe that the scripture is using sarcasm; i.e., "everyone knows" that neither Sodom nor Samaria will ever be restored.  In other words, "when hell freezes over" ;)

That's true. The KJV seems itself to say that, but if you cross reference it with other translations, it seems to say the opposite...  ???
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jerreye

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 10:23:41 PM »

I just noticed something about that verse...I just went through an Hebrew/English interlinear of Ezek 16:55 and I also compared it to many translations. The King James translation seems to be the only one that gets it wrong here. The Hebrew doesn't say "WHEN Sodom is returned to her former estate". It simply tells us that Sodom and her daughters, Samaria and her daughters and Israel and her daughters WILL ALL return to their former estate.

This is direct statement of fact that ALL will return to their former estate. There is certainly no sarcasm present in this verse :)

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F@lgn0n

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 06:37:27 AM »


 
. . . God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


That's my take on it.  Wouldn't be much of a delusion if most were not believing and propagating it. 


Lol - ain't that the truth.
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daywalker

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 02:28:57 PM »


Hello Lupac,

The key is in the verses that follow:

Ezekiel 16:55 And your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, Do turn back to their former state, And Samaria and her daughters Do turn back to their former state, And you and your daughters do turn back to your former state."

56 And your sister Sodom has not been for a report in your mouth, In the day of your arrogancy,

57 Before your wickedness is revealed, As [at] the time of the reproach of the daughters of Aram, And of all her neighbors, the daughters of the Philistines, Who are despising you round about."

58 Your devices and your abominations, You have borne them, an affirmation of Yahweh."

59 For thus said the Lord Yahweh:I have dealt with you as you have done, In that you have despised an oath--to break covenant."

60 And I--I have remembered My covenant with you, In the days of your youth, And I have established for you a covenant eonian."

61 And you have remembered your ways, And you have been ashamed, In your receiving your sisters--Your elder with your younger, And I have given them to you for daughters, And not by your covenant." <--- [that's because we are under a NEW Covenant--Matt 26:28; 2 Cor 3:6; Heb 9:15]

62 And I--I have established My covenant with you, And you have known that I [am] Yahweh."

63 So that you do remember, And you have been ashamed, And there is not to you any more an opening of the mouth because of your shame, In My receiving atonement for you, For all that you have done, An affirmation of the Lord Yahweh!'"



God foretells the Judgment of Jerusalem [and all Israel], but in the end, He will forgive them, AS He will forgive Sodom and her daughters.



In rebuttal to the Geneva's commentary:

Isaiah 45:17 Israel is saved by Yahweh, with a salvation eonian. They shall not be ashamed nor confounded for future eons.


Romans 11:26 And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob.

27 And this is my covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.




Kinda hard to punish someone for their sins when they [the sins] have been eliminated?  :D


Daywalker  8)
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aqrinc

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Re: Somdom being returned?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 08:57:50 PM »


Based on these Scriptures, Sodom (Spiritually Deprived and Depraved Condition) is guaranteed cleansing and sonship into GOD'S Family, exactly like everyone else.

Rom 3:9 (CLV)
What, then? Are we privileged? Undoubtedly not, for we previously charge both Jews and Greeks to be all under sin,

Rom 3:10-19 (Rotherham)
10 Even as it is written—there is none righteous, not even one,
11 There is none that discerneth, There is none that seeketh out God:
12 All, have turned aside, together, have become useless, There is none that doeth kindness, not so much as one:
13 A sepulchre opened, is their throat, with their tongues, have they used deceit, the poison of asps, is under their lips,
14 Whose mouth, of cursing and bitterness, is full,
15 Swift, are their feet to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery, are in their ways,
17 And, the way of peace, have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
 Wow, what a long sentence, and also convicting every person.

Rom 3:19 (Rotherham)
Now we know that, whatsoever things the law saith, to them who are within the law, it speaketh, in order that, every mouth, may be stopped and all the world come, under penal sentence, unto God.

Rom 11:26-36 (EMTV)
26  And so all Israel shall be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer shall come out of Zion, and He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27  For this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins."

28  As regards to the gospel, they are enemies for your sake; but as regards to election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

30  For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now you were shown mercy through their disobedience,
31  even so these now were disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also might be shown mercy.

32  For God has shut up all to disobedience, that He might show mercy to all. 

33  Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and untraceable are His ways!
34  "For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has been His counselor?"
35  "Or who has first given to Him, and it shall be repaid to him?"
36  For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things; to Him be the glory forever!(for The Ages) Amen.

This verse from several different translations for emphasis; All (everyone) are disobedient and locked up under sin; so that GOD Will have Mercy on everyone.

Rom 11:32 (RYLT-NT)
for God did shut up together the whole to unbelief, that to the whole He might do kindness.

Rom 11:32 (GW)
God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.

Rom 11:32 (DRB Douay-Rheims)
For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he may have mercy on all.

Rom 11:32 (Rotherham)
For God hath shut up all together, in a refusal to yield, in order that, upon all, he may bestow mercy.

Rom 11:32 (CLV)
For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all."

Rom 11:32 (CEV)
All people have disobeyed God, and that's why he treats them as prisoners. But he does this, so that he can have mercy on all of them.


george :).

 
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