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Did Jesus keep the law?
Lupac:
I was told when I was growing up that Jesus was the only one who ever kept the law, and back then keeping the law = not sinning. This never made sense to me, as Paul was able to keep the law perfectly, while at the same time being the greatest sinner ever. Now, I've read that Jesus didn't keep the law, but kept a much higher law, the one Christians are now held to. Jesus never sinned, but he didn't keep the law. He kept the Father's law. Is that right?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Lupac on January 20, 2010, 12:09:10 AM ---I was told when I was growing up that Jesus was the only one who ever kept the law, and back then keeping the law = not sinning. This never made sense to me, as Paul was able to keep the law perfectly, while at the same time being the greatest sinner ever. Now, I've read that Jesus didn't keep the law, but kept a much higher law, the one Christians are now held to. Jesus never sinned, but he didn't keep the law. He kept the Father's law. Is that right?
--- End quote ---
Hello Lupac,
Perhaps this excerpt will help in understanding the Law & the two Covenants.
Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 16-D3 (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm):
Likewise, Jesus is not contradicting the Law of Moses in these few examples in His Sermon on the Mount.
We need to really understand and know as Paul did when he said: "For we KNOW that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL..." (Rom. 7:14). And just how did Paul "know" this? Because of the 10th commandment of the Ten Commandments which were the main part of the Law of Moses, and the Old Covenant (Deut. 4:13). "...Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law [what law?]: for I had not known lust, except the law [which law?] had said, 'THOU SHALT NOT COVET'" (Rom. 7:7). Oh THAT law. That would be the 10th commandment of the Ten Commandments (Ex. 20:17).
Of course I have said and have written for many years now that the Ten Commandments of God are spiritual. And I have explained that it is this 10th commandment that is the absolute proof. The 7th commandment already said to not commit adultery, and the 8th commandment already said to not steal, but then the last and 10th commandment says in effect, "...and don't even THINK about it!"
Isn't this exactly what Jesus is teaching when He says that the commandment said to not commit adultery, be He then said we are not to even THINK ABOUT lusting after another woman with impure sexual thoughts?
This whole Sermon on the Mount is Christ's teaching on how to live an exceedingly higher level of morality and righteousness than was taught before, and the accompanying Judgments if one does not live up to these standards.
Paul taught:
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster" (Gal. 3:24-25).
The law was like elementary school, whereas living by faith in Christ is more like high school or college.
Is not elementary school necessary before high school? Most elementary students cannot do high school or college work. Do high school and college teachers contradict the math, grammar, and science that was learned in elementary school. No, of course not, and so neither does Jesus CONTRADICT the lessons of the Law of Moses which brought us to Him. We never contradict 2 + 2 = 4 when we get to high school, but we do move onto higher math and do not continue re-laying the foundation of these subjects already established back in elementary school.
We will now turn to the Sermon on the Mount and see if we are able to learn a little "new [spiritual] math."
Lets be clear on one thing before we enter this study. You will find the phrase, New Covenant, New Testament, and New Commandment in the Greek Scriptures, But you will not find the phrase "New LAW" anywhere. There are "new commandments" regarding that law, the but law is the same, as it is "spiritual" and therefore is not "temporal" (II Cor. 4:18).
And let me make this perfectly clear. In the Old Covenant Law, we read this:
"...you shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Lev. 19:18 & Matt. 5:43, 19:19, 22:39, etc.)
The apostle John informs us that this commandment is not new:
"And now I beseech you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto you, but that which we had from the beginning, that we should love one another" (II John 1:5).
But John also knew that Jesus did add something to this commandment:
"And this is HIS commandment, that we should believe on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, AS He gave us commandment" (I John 3:23).
Well was there something different about this commandment from the Old Covenant Law and "AS" Jesus commanded it? Yes there was. A new Law? No. A contradictory Law? No. Well what then was different from the way Jesus taught and kept this commandment to "love your neighbor?"
Here it is, simply and profoundly: "A NEW commandment I give unto you, That you love one another [same as the Old Commandment, right? No, here is were the new "AS" part comes in...] ...That you love one another AS I HAVE LOVED YOU, that you also love one another" (John 13:34). Now that brings a whole lot more meaning to the "old" commandment which they had from the beginning. Loving "AS" Jesus loved, is a whole new ball game, as they say.
There was and is nothing wrong with the Law of Moses. God calls it "MY law."
The problem was never with the Law, but with the people:
"O that there were such an HEART in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always..." (Deut. 5:29).
The problem was never with God's Law, but with the peoples' heart-they were carnal, and when one is carnal, he cannot keep a "spiritual" law:
"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:6-7).
And here is absolutely proof that there needed a change in the Covenant, not in the LAW OF THE COVENANT:
"For if that first covenant ['covenant,' not law] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For FINDING FAULT WITH THEM, He said, Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT [not a New Law] with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... For this is the covenant that I will make... I will put my LAWS [same old laws-but new covenant] into their MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS..." (Heb. 8:7-9).
There it is!
The New makes alive and ends in "eternal [eonian-immortal] LIFE."
"Who also has made us able ministers of the NEW Testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT: for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives LIFE" (II Cor. 3:6).
This along with the blood sacrifice of Jesus IS the New Covenant; the Gospel; the Kingdom of God.
The Old letter of the law was glorious, but the newly applied Spirit of the law does "much more exceed in glory" (II Cor. 3:9). The Old Covenant law was how God's people were judged under Moses: the New Covenant law is how God's chosen Elect will be judged under Jesus.
Does this help?
Marques
Samson:
Lupac,
Marques covered this quite well, but just to add a small piece to a passage he cited at Hebrews chapter 8. I copied a pasted his Scriptural quotation from Hebrews chapter 8 and below his quotation in blue I have Jeremiah 31:31-34, that's what Paul is quoting from. Read Below !
"For if that first covenant ['covenant,' not law] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For FINDING FAULT WITH THEM, He said, Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT [not a New Law] with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... For this is the covenant that I will make... I will put my LAWS [same old laws-but new covenant] into their MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS..." (Heb. 8:7-9).
" Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel(Spiritual Israel) and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their Fathers in the day I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord(Jehovah-Jesus). But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel(Spiritual Israel) after those days, says the Lord: I will put my Laws in their minds and write it on their hearts and I will be their God and they shall be my people(God's Elect). No more shall every man teach his neighbor and every man his brother, saying Know the Lord, for they all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and theuir sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah. 31:31-34( Just for added emphasis).
KInd Regards, Samson.
Kat:
Hi Lupac,
--- Quote ---Jesus never sinned, but he didn't keep the law. He kept the Father's law. Is that right?
--- End quote ---
Simply put, yes you are right. Here is an excerpt from the article 'Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant.'
http://bible-truths.com/tithing.html ----------------
Obedience to the Law of Moses, the Sacrifices and the many Ordinances was to bring physical prosperity, safety from enemies, healthy children, and a long life in the land, followed by DEATH. Malachi brings us from obedience to physical laws in the land, all the way down to the return of Messiah in fiery judgment upon mankind. God never really did want animal sacrifices, but the sacrifices of a "broken and contrite heart and spirit."
v
As Christians are not under the Law of Moses in this New Testament dispensation, accordingly, the end-time fulfillment of Malachi does not pertain to the Law of Moses, which is the oldness of the letter rather the newness of the spirit. Just as there is no more sacrificing of animals at the Temple, likewise there is no tithing of animals at the Temple—nor is there tithing of any kind. Christians are not under the Law of Moses, nor a twisted, modified version of it.
"For the law of the SPIRIT of LIFE in Christ Jesus [this is not the Law of Moses] has made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH" (Rom. 8:2).
The law of the letter "engraven in stone tablets" assuredly was a "dispensation of death and condemnation" (II Cor. 3:4-11).
v
JESUS CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW, NOT TO RELIVE THE LAW
Christians believe that Jesus came to FULFILL the Law of Moses by RELIVING the law of Moses in His own personal life. He assuredly did not. This is an entire study of itself, however, I want to prove to you from the Scriptures that Jesus did not concern Himself with Tithes and Taxes, and restrictions of the Law of Moses.
THE TEMPLE TAX
Not only did Jesus not tithe, because He was a carpenter and carpenters were not obligated to tithe, but neither did He pay the Temple tax, which was commanded by the Law of Moses for all men in Israel to pay annually. Of the 613 laws of Moses, this is Law # 404:
v
The point is this: Jesus did not pay temple tax because Jesus is the King of the kingdom. And if the children are free, certainly the King Himself is free.
Might I add that, neither did Jesus stone or condone others to stone, the woman caught in the very act of adultery even thought the Law of Moses demanded it:
"And the man that commits adultery with another man’s wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer AND THE ADULTERESS SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH" (Lev. 20:10).
Now then, did Jesus come to "fulfill" this Law of Moses by living, teaching and carrying out that law? He surely did not. He rather said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7). If we are to believe that "fulfilling the law" of Moses can only be accomplished by living, teaching and enforcing the law of Moses, then something is wrong with that theory because Jesus obviously did NOT carry out many commands of the law of Moses in His own life!
The theologians have debased the New Covenant as being nothing more than the Old Covenant, with a few added twists. Jesus "fulfilled the law" not by adding a few spiritual twists to it, but by keeping a MUCH HIGHER SPIRITUAL LAW that actually contradicted much of the letter of Moses’ Law.
One doesn’t need a physical law of the letter chiseled in stone, to "keep the sabbath" when he has entered into "God’s SPIRITUAL REST" in his heart.
One doesn’t need a physical law of the letter to "swear by His name" when in his heart his desire is to "swear NOT at all."
One doesn’t need a physical law chiseled in stone telling him "thou shalt not commit adultery" when in his heart he no longer "even looks on a woman to lust after her."
One doesn’t need a physical law telling him to "HATE his enemies" when now in his very heart, he "LOVES his enemies."
For you newcomers to the world of theology, LOVE is lot different than just putting a spiritual twist on HATE. Not swearing at all is more than putting a spiritual twist on the commandment TO SWEAR. Am I going too fast for anyone?
---------------------------------------------------------
BTW this does not contradict what Marques has posted. You need to study this to understand that we were under the law "to bring us unto Christ," that was not necessary for Christ Himself.
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster" (Gal. 3:24-25).
It all come down to this final statement in Marques' excerpt.
--- Quote ---The Old letter of the law was glorious, but the newly applied Spirit of the law does "much more exceed in glory" (II Cor. 3:9). The Old Covenant law was how God's people were judged under Moses: the New Covenant law is how God's chosen Elect will be judged under Jesus.
--- End quote ---
mercy, peace and love
Kat
bambam:
This was very helpful. I have been studying the law because of the things the pastor has been saying in church from the pulpit. Two of them being that if you do not tithe your ten percent, and you do not go to church sunday morning, night and wednesday night, you are backslidden.
Now, I am going to church at this point because my husband wishes me to, but I have shared the things I believe with him so he knows how I feel. Anyways, I have been trying to understand what exactly the role of the law was in the OT. Because we do not do the law now-well most of it. So many preachers teach certain parts of the law as still over us(ie-tithe, sabbath), but all that other stuff, well it just doesn't apply, obviously. ::)
Even though I think I have so much figured out in my head as I study, it is hard to put into words. I have been studying Galations and that has been wonderful. So I appreciated reading this about the law.
What I am trying to understand is what exactly does the law include. I know that commiting adultry is not allowed now that we are not under the old covenant, but we don't have to tithe or physically honor a specific day for sabbath. Because I can see the argument from someone that well since we don't have to tithe or keep the sabbath I guess that means we can steal too. Do you see what I am saying?
Or the preacher will say that we have to obey the ten commandments still so that means we are supposed to tithe and keep the sabbath as well. Of course there are a ton of things we don't have to do anymore. In these people's minds, who decides what parts of the law are kept and which parts are not necessary anymore? It so silly.
For me personally it's about seeing for myself what is the law and what isn't. And then, knowing that we are not under the law, what is the purpose for that law. To bring us to Christ right? When do we know we have been brought to him? Because I feel as though I don't need to go to a church like I am going to-or to tithe, or whatever.
I feel as though I am free from the law and it is liberating, but I still want to do the right thing in life. especially with my family right now. I want to be loving and kind and patient. You know the fruits of the spirit-that's what I want. Is that what the higher law of Christ entails?
Am I headed in the right direction.? I'm so hungry for profitably spiritual growth and conversation with others of like mind. I don't have that right now. It's hard!
Thanks, any further thoughts on this are greatly welcome. Maybe the answers have already been said somewhere but I haven't found them.
Beth :)
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