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God's justice?
Lupac:
Did Ray ever write an article on God's justice? Let me explain, I am currently trying to deprogram myself to stop thinking like a Babylonian. I was taught that, God has no "standard" He holds Himself to. Whatever God decides to do, it's by definition just, even if it doesn't seem that way. (Hell, election, you get the picture.) James Kennedy, R.C. Sprol, and Doug Wilson are/were household names where I grew up. I was also taught that God, right now, if He wanted to, could throw everybody alive now, and everyone who ever lived into hell, and no one would even have the right to question Him, and He would be PERFECTLY JUST in doing so. (You might can imagine the kind of warped childhood I had, as far as God went.) I would have nightmares sometimes, when I was little, about going to hell. It never physically hurt, I was just completely alone in a dark cave, with light coming through cracks of fire in the floor. I never told my parents, but I was always terrified of God. So my question is, what is God's "standard" of justice, and what does justice mean to God? Thanks.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Lupac on January 21, 2010, 08:23:52 PM ---Did Ray ever write an article on God's justice? Let me explain, I am currently trying to deprogram myself to stop thinking like a Babylonian. I was taught that, God has no "standard" He holds Himself to. Whatever God decides to do, it's by definition just, even if it doesn't seem that way. (Hell, election, you get the picture.) James Kennedy, R.C. Sprol, and Doug Wilson are/were household names where I grew up. I was also taught that God, right now, if He wanted to, could throw everybody alive now, and everyone who ever lived into hell, and no one would even have the right to question Him, and He would be PERFECTLY JUST in doing so. (You might can imagine the kind of warped childhood I had, as far as God went.) I would have nightmares sometimes, when I was little, about going to hell. It never physically hurt, I was just completely alone in a dark cave, with light coming through cracks of fire in the floor. I never told my parents, but I was always terrified of God. So my question is, what is God's "standard" of justice, and what does justice mean to God? Thanks.
--- End quote ---
Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 16 D-4 (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm):
JUDGMENT AS DEFINED BY SCRIPTURE IS GOOD
"The Judgment of God" are scary words for most people. Partly this is due to the Church portraying Judgment as a horrible and fearful thing involving sentencing many to an eternity of insane torture by fire. We will now take a Scriptural look at the doctrine of Gehenna Fire Judgment.
God is presented as the Great Judge over His creation from early Scripture. The first time the word "judge" is found in Scripture:
"...shall not the Judge of all the earth do right" (Gen. 18:25).
Actually this phrase is: "shall not the Judge of all the earth do justice."
"Justice" is translated from the Hebrew mishpat and it means according to Dr. Strong: 'a verdict-favorable or unfavorable.' And our dictionaries add to this: "a quality of being just; fairness." So "justice" is "just and fair" (interestingly John Hagee teaches that an eternity of torture in a literal hell of literal fire is "JUSTICE," and Dr. James Kennedy teaches that hell is "FAIR").
NO, an eternity of torture in fire is not "justice," nor is it "fair," as these two great pillars of heresy contend.
The word "Judge" in this verse is from the Heb: shaphat and means according to Dr. Strong: "judge, to pronounce sentence-to vindicate or punish."
It is clear that they are very similar. God the Judge will, "do JUSTICE," or will "Judge justly," or as King James translates it "do right." And not surprisingly, the New Testament tells us the very same thing:
"Because He [God] has appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." (Acts 17:31).
Notice that Jesus will [1] judge, [2] the world, [3] in righteousness.
Next let's read one of my favorite verses (Isaiah 26:9):
"When Thy [1] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants [2] of the world [3] will learn righteousness."
What a marvelous spiritual match. When Jesus Judges the world in righteousness, the world will "learn righteousness."
Ironically, the first time we find the words "justice and judgment" in the Bible is in the very same verse:
"For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him" (Gen. 18:19).
Here we learn that doing "justice and judgment" brings the blessings of God.
Will Jesus and God His Father do the "right" and just thing when it comes to judging this world? Certainly. In the Old Testament we read that God does not change (Mal. 3:6); God the Father does not change (James 1:17); Jesus Christ does not change (Heb. 13:8 ). Use your God-given minds for a moment and consider the insanity of infinite punishment for finite sins, and the same punishment for both gross and minor sins.
"But the fearful [Gk: timid], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8 ).
Does anyone in their right mind believe that murderers and timid people should be sentenced to the same "eternity of punishment?" Why even most heathen governments match the punishment to fit the nature and degree of a crime. But most Christian theology does not have even the good sense of some pagans.
Even when "many stripes" were administered (even among wicked men), they were to be limited to 40 lashes: Deut. 25:3; Lk 12:47; Acts 16;23; II Cor. 11:24.
To "judge" means to set right, whether it is in chastening or sentencing. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right"-that is to judge justly so as to bring about change.
"When Thy [God's] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world [everyone] will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9).
When the wicked are left to their own devices, they will NOT learn righteousness, but when God's just judgments are added to the mix, and Jesus judges in righteousness, they cannot but "learn righteousness." Why won't the Church teach these marvelous truths? Well, of course it can't, seeing it is deceived.
God's judgments and the knowledge of His plan and purpose for humanity has reached precious few in the past, but it is prophesied to cover the earth:
"They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Isa. 11:9).
And:
"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Habakkuk 2:14).
It is an easy thing to turn men (and women) into beasts and heartless criminals. Torturing them or annihilating them would likewise be an easy thing for God to do. But turning vile and demented criminals like Hitler, Saddam, or Charles Manson into godly saints, now that's an accomplishment.
Of course most Christians and theologians and pastors do not believe that God is up to a task this great. Just wait. If God can spiritually transform a criminal like the Pharisee Saul, into the loving Apostle Paul, Saddam and the boys will not challenge God's ability to convince them of their great need of repentance.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Lupac:
Thank you. It's hard to believe the truth, when lots of people tell you the truth is a lie, and their lies are the truth.
Stacey:
--- Quote from: Lupac on January 21, 2010, 10:46:08 PM ---Thank you. It's hard to believe the truth, when lots of people tell you the truth is a lie, and their lies are the truth.
--- End quote ---
If you know its a lie than why is it so hard to believe the truth?
If you tell a lie long enough, loud enough and often enough, the people will believe it. Adolph Hitler.
KJV Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
NIV Mat. 15:14 Leave them; they are blind (deceived)guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
NIV Luke 6:39 He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Lupac on January 21, 2010, 10:46:08 PM ---Thank you. It's hard to believe the truth, when lots of people tell you the truth is a lie, and their lies are the truth.
--- End quote ---
II Corinthians 6:14 Do not become diversely yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what communion has light with darkness?
15 Now what agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what part a believer with an unbeliever?
16 Now what concurrence has a temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, according as God said, that I will be making My home and will be walking in them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
17 Wherefore, Come out of their midst and be severed, the Lord is saying. And touch not the unclean, and I will admit you,
18 and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty."
Revelation 18:3 for, as a result of the wine of the fury of her [Babylon's] prostitution have all the nations fallen. And the kings of the earth commit prostitution with her, and the merchants of the earth are rich as a result of her power to indulge.
4 And I hear another voice out of heaven, saying, "Come out of her, My people, lest you should be joint participants in her sins, and lest you should be getting of her calamities,
5 for her sins were piled up to heaven, and God remembers her injuries."
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