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Temptation that will try the earth
gallenwalsh:
I'm just trying to clarify in my own mind how the elect will be kept from this great temptation that will try the rest of humanity.What is this temptation, is that a correct translation ? I am somewhat confused on the living of the seals by the elect that are being judged now and the events that will occur to the rest of humanity. Will the earth itself and the stars be shaken, literally, or is this just figurative of many problems of humanity? Will it get so bad there will be no flesh saved alive if god does not cease his wrath? Is that what awaits the rest of humanity ?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: gallenwalsh on January 23, 2010, 04:59:13 PM --- I'm just trying to clarify in my own mind how the elect will be kept from this great temptation that will try the rest of humanity.What is this temptation, is that a correct translation ? I am somewhat confused on the living of the seals by the elect that are being judged now and the events that will occur to the rest of humanity. Will the earth itself and the stars be shaken, literally, or is this just figurative of many problems of humanity? Will it get so bad there will be no flesh saved alive if god does not cease his wrath? Is that what awaits the rest of humanity ?
--- End quote ---
Hello Gallenwalsh,
I don't want you to think you ask too many questions, but all these questions you ask relate to 1 concept:
Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 16-D4 (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm):
LIFE IS ALL ABOUT CHANGE
We started with the word REPENTANCE. And what is it that causes this repentance in us? "...knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance" (Rom. 2:4). Repentance starts with God and is a work of God in us. We ended with SALVATION, and this too is a work of God by God and His grace:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith... For we are His achievement, created in Christ Jesus unto good works..." (Eph. 2:8-10).
Everything from our repentance to our salvation is the work of God in us through Christ Jesus. Broadly speaking all of these things are God's judgments (setting all wrong right) upon us. Some are severe while others are pleasant blessings, but they are all designed to fashion us into the spiritual Image of God, and they are all administered in righteousness. Every facet of our lives consist of changing or being put into a new position of change. Only God does not change. We are in need of dramatic and revolutionary change.
"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (II Cor. 3:18).
You ask questions like you haven't read any of the Lake of Fire series. Ray goes over extensively what are God's judgments, how they are administered, when and to whom they are administered to.
The signs and wonders spoken of in Revelation are not literal...these are things that happen in the person's lives. God is changing us from carnal minded men and women to Sons and Daughters of God. This requires a change in mind and heart...the way we think, believe, and desire.
So many people think that Revelation is an end-time prophecy of the destruction of the earth so they continue to look OUT THERE for some kind of confirmation. Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus Christ, IN YOU...you whoever keeps the sayings of this prophecy [Rev 1:3].
God is more interested in 'shaking loose your carnal mindset' than shaking the physical earth. He shakes the earth all the time [earthquakes/landslides/volcanic eruptions] and does that does not make people spiritually converted.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you [including the words of Revelation], they are spirit, and they are life.
Marques
mmijares:
Hi Marques,
I once read (I couldnt' locate it) that Ray somehow believed that there will be a great tribulation (his words were "great affliction or sorrow" (something like that))
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
In fact upon reading that Ray's article, I partially concluded (I maybe wrong, of course) Ray sees Jesus words in Matthew and in Revelation are two different things (which according to most churches they are the same).
I still wait for Ray's verse-by-verse commentary on Revelation which he says he plans to do someday.
-Mijares
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: mmijares on January 23, 2010, 06:52:54 PM ---Hi Marques,
I once read (I couldnt' locate it) that Ray somehow believed that there will be a great tribulation (his words were "great affliction or sorrow" (something like that))
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
In fact upon reading that Ray's article, I partially concluded (I maybe wrong, of course) Ray sees Jesus words in Matthew and in Revelation are two different things (which according to most churches they are the same).
I still wait for Ray's verse-by-verse commentary on Revelation which he says he plans to do someday.
-Mijares
--- End quote ---
Mijares,
I don't get your point, who said anything about there not being tribulation or great tribulation. But the scriptures do not speak of A great tribulation nor THE antichrist.
Also, please point out what teaching from Ray you concluded your statement above about Christ words in Matt & Rev being two different things. Kat provided a step by step guide to searching the BT website as well as the forum (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5460.0.html). I don't want to dwell on what someone 'might' have said, no offense.
Marques
mmijares:
Hi Marques,
Yes, I read that a number times - "the scriptures do not speak of A great tribulation." What I was trying to imply that there will a great tribulation (great affliction or sorrow) which has never happened before. What do you want me to write in my sentence? Omit the "a"?
As for the Matt and Rev, I said "partially" and "I maybe wrong". I read several commentaries and majority of them say that portions of Revelation talk about "great affliction" which is what Matt 24 talking about.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,439.0.html
Dear Rob:
Almost daily I receive questions regarding the book of Revelation. It is difficult to explain one section of Scripture here and another there in Revelation, isolated from the rest of the book. The book is a whole, and without understanding the beginning from the end, the middle chapters will be total confusion. We will be coming out with a commentary on the book of Revelation, chapter by chapter, in the near future. It is not pssible to cover subjects in this book in single emails. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
Ray hasn't done yet an extensive commetary on Revelation so I still eagerly wait whether he thinks that portions of Revelation talks about a great turmoil.
By the way, no offense taken.
-Mijares
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