> General Discussions
Satan falling as lightning?
aqrinc:
--- Quote from: Kat on January 26, 2010, 12:45:28 PM ---
Hi Arion,
Here is my reasoning on these Scriptures. Satan was wicked from the beginning (John 8:44), he and the demons were created as spirit in the heavens and it seems it was before the physical creation. Now this heavenly realm is their "first abode/estate" which they left when they enter the physical realm to influence humans towards wickedness. Now of course God did create them for this purpose and He is responsible, but it is sinful, and they will give account at judgment. God does restrain/chains them and I guess does not unleash their full evil onto the world. They most certainly are in darkness or wickedness, as they have "no truth" in them (John 8:44). And in contrast you have the messengers/angels that serve God for a righteous purpose as messengers/angels of light. So there you have it as I see it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Looks about the same from my perspective Kat, thanks for wording it.
george ;D.
jingle52:
Hello,
First of all I would just like to say how wonderful it is reading all the responses to questions and doubts some of us might have especially to newbies like me. I marvel at the amazingly insightful and spot on ways the forum replies to questions that may be found on Rays teaching, but since we are new and there is such a lot of material (for me anyway), that it very difficult to find the exact place to search, maybe in time, I/we will get more adept at this. I have been reading none stop for months now and still I thirst for more and thank God everyday for leading me to Ray’s teachings and this wonderful group of people seeking the truth to learn from and fellowship with.
Blessed be the name of our Lord God Almighty and Glory to Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting [Gk: 'aidion'] chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but could the above passage also be referring to what could have happened to the angels in Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the Sons of God came unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men, which were of old men of renown.
It does not say that God punished the angels, only that God destroyed mankind by sending the flood.
Can someone please shed some light on this for me, I’ve always wondered how it was possible that the angels could commit such a sin by leaving their abode/heaven to be with carnal women physically? What am I not getting here? Has Ray written anything concerning Gen 6:4? I sorry if I missed it.
Kat:
Hi Jingle,
Well I have been around long enough to learn to search out most anything and it is my pleasure to do so. I did find where Ray has mentioned the Scripture in Gen 6., here are a couple emails to explain.
http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm -----
Gen. 6 has absolutely NOTHING to do with "fallen angels." The "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" is not speaking of mortals and spirit beings. This is just another one of Christendom's fables.
Jesus plainly told us that,
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God., For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage [why? why aren't they given in marriage? Answer....] ...but are AS THE ANGELS of God in heaven" (Matt. 22:30).
The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED." The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN.
I believe that verse 4 of Gen. 6 is a terrible translation in the King James. Since most translators have bought into the 'angels fornicating with women' theory, most of them have a very strange translation of this verse. There are whole words in this Hebrew verse that are not even translated at all in most versions.
Notice this translation from the Concordant Version:
"Now the DISTINGUISHED come to be in the earth in those days, and moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of God to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the MASTERS, who are from the eon, MORTALS with the name."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3293.0.html -----------
Nowhere does the Bible speak of "angels sleeping with women." Like ALL Christian doctrines, this one is
totally unscriptural heresy. Phil. 2:15 and other Scriptures conclusively show that "sons of God"
are humans just as much as they are angels or messengers. Notice that in Gen. 6:2 these "sons
of God" "took them WIVES" of these daughters of men. WIVES! It says nothing of "angels
sleeping with women." They MARRIED these daughters. Now then, do "angels" "MARRY?"
No, no they don't, for ANGELS DO NOT MARRY (Matt. 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35). End
of argument. There is more to it, as in who were these men of renown? etc. But I don't have
time to explain all that in an email.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3081.0 ---------
It is both unscriptural and foolishness to suggest that the giants of Genesis were the result of angels fornicating with human women. First, where it says the "sons of God saw the daughters of men," it does not suggest that they fornicated together, but rather they took them for "WIVES." And Jesus plainly told us that the Angels of heaven DO NOT MARRY. One cannot have a "wife" without marrying.
This subject is, however, too big for an email answer. These sons of God were mortals just as the "wives" they took from the "daughters of men." Goliath was a giant, and he was a Phillistine, not an ANGELTINE!
God be with you,
Ray
jingle52:
Thank you so much Kat for the link, I wish I found all this earlier, I've got so much catching up and learning to do that it boggles my mind.... however I look forward to learning God's word through Ray's teaching and through all of you on the forum.
I feel blessed indeed!
arion:
Also a rich welcome to you Jingle. We're just one small family here that is growing in grace, wisdom and knowledge as the Lord gives the increase. We certainly have some incredible resources here.
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