> General Discussions
Enoch was taken up
Marky Mark:
Hello Oatmeal.
You have to believe the Scriptures. The flesh profits nothing...
I believe that the old testament is but a shadow [symbolic] of the new... Jesus is the new and is the reality of things old.He is the Way and the Light to all things Spiritual.
Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
If scripture testifies that ALL of his days were 365 years,what part of the all is only in part? Looks as if the all in this case means that he died after his walk in the Faith.
Websters
all 1 a : the whole amount, quantity, or extent of...
--- Quote ---I would not feel happy to say to others: “Enoch died”.
--- End quote ---
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Which death after living 365 years are we speaking of here?
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believer in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Could Enoch(and the old testament prophets) have had enough Faith that he(they) would not have to experience the second death that we all know of to be >>> not being judged again in the resurrection to damnation. If by the act of walking with God means that he obeyed God, how then does that differ than the elects faith? Meaning, having the faith to kill the carnal heart. None of the old have yet received the promise. Why? Because the Comforter came well after their deaths when He returned at Pentecost. I myself do not believe for a moment that the prophets of the old testament will not be of the Kingdom of God. The elect will have a better thing, in part, the welcoming the prophets of old into the Kingdom.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Ephesians 2: 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
All men die. Even our Lord and Savior had to experience physical death.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face will you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For you are dust, and to dust you shall return."
Job 34:15 All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust.
Psalm 90:3 You turn mortals back into dust and say, "Return, descendants of Adam."
If the Father sent his own Son to death,I cannot see how He would not send all men to death,as it is written.From what I can see in Scripture our Heavenly Father does not play favorites,even onto death.
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality
Hope this helps some.
Peace...Mark
DougE6:
Hello Oatmeal..
There was some excellent answers to your question and there is not much to be added, cause the answer I feel, has been thoroughly given by some wise counselors!
I am just writing because I want to address one question you brought up. You have made much of the fact and it troubles you that Abel and Enoch were mentioned together, and that the passage definitely describes Abel to have been dead, while Enoch was taken so he "would not see death".
Well, one thing came to my mind as a possible additional clarification to your question. Both Abel and Enoch were righteous people in their immediate enviroment. Abel was murdered by his brother, Cain, the unrighteous one. It appears to me that Enoch was in danger of this same fate! Of being murdered. It was NOT God's will that Enoch was to suffer the same fate as Abel, so God took him away from there, and so "he could not be found" Abel and Enoch were mentioned together because they both were righteous ones; but the language that Enoch was taken away so he would not see death and could not be found was the writers way of telling us that in contrast to Abel, God rescued Enoch from the immediate death that Abel suffered cause he was found righteous, and God carried him far enough away that he could not be found by these potential murderers.
He still died later just like all the ones on the list, and he never ascended to heaven as Jesus said no man has ascended into heaven.
The text does not mean that he was not to die.
I hope this possibility helps shine light on the peculiar language of this passage, as it was describing a divine intervention to rescue righteous Enoch, in contrast to righteous Abels killing. God is the ultimate decider of when we each shall die.
Deborah-Leigh:
What a gracious entry you make among us DougE6.
Welcome to the Forum.
Jesus did not appear to Herod or Pontius Pilate after He rose again.
He appears to His friends and children, sons and daughters, family..... :)
Arc
cjwood:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on January 29, 2010, 08:20:37 PM ---
Hello Oatmeal..
There was some excellent answers to your question and there is not much to be added, cause the answer I feel, has been thoroughly given by some wise counselors!
I am just writing because I want to address one question you brought up. You have made much of the fact and it troubles you that Abel and Enoch were mentioned together, and that the passage definitely describes Abel to have been dead, while Enoch was taken so he "would not see death".
Well, one thing came to my mind as a possible additional clarification to your question. Both Abel and Enoch were righteous people in their immediate enviroment. Abel was murdered by his brother, Cain, the unrighteous one. It appears to me that Enoch was in danger of this same fate! Of being murdered. It was NOT God's will that Enoch was to suffer the same fate as Abel, so God took him away from there, and so "he could not be found" Abel and Enoch were mentioned together because they both were righteous ones; but the language that Enoch was taken away so he would not see death and could not be found was the writers way of telling us that in contrast to Abel, God rescued Enoch from the immediate death that Abel suffered cause he was found righteous, and God carried him far enough away that he could not be found by these potential murderers.
He still died later just like all the ones on the list, and he never ascended to heaven as Jesus said no man has ascended into heaven.
The text does not mean that he was not to die.
I hope this possibility helps shine light on the peculiar language of this passage, as it was describing a divine intervention to rescue righteous Enoch, in contrast to righteous Abels killing. God is the ultimate decider of when we each shall die.
--- End quote ---
i agree with arcturus 100%. what a gracious entry you've made dougE6. your post was thought provoking and spiritually delicious. welcome.
claudia
noeleena:
Hi..
Just a small point .
As we follow after or behind our Lord . the way we follow is for us to go through, wether its on land, sea = boat, or sky = plane, we have a covering or the term used we are in his hand . as i v said before i have been protected from death or had.
if you use the word transported . means our Lord is infront & ....we...follow if its walking running how ever ,& some times the eyes of those that are watching us are blind or blinded ,
as Jesus walked right on through the group of people who wonted his guts .
We were / are created to live only on this earth . we can not live up beyond the ionosphere, no air to breath so no one has gone beyound that point of the earths boundy in our human form . alone as we know we would be burned up . the space ships have proved that & how do we live in outer space .
I can see it now the horses & chariot. yet to see the horse s with wings tho,
what we need to see is man did not have the wisdom we have now .or lost it ,, hence the different ways they tryed to explain some thing they did not understand .& even then the spirit of the person who has died . the Egypitans were well aware of, as in thier hieroghyphics ,storytelling
No different to day . for some,
...noeleena...
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