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.... he will never see death.
Felix:
John 8:51 If anyone keeps My word he will never see death. NAS
My wife and I have a running debate. I believe that the soul is mortal. When we die we are dead until
the resurrection of the dead. She believes that the soul is immortal. She points out this scripture where
Jesus says that those who keep His word will never die. I know that Ray has written about this, but I'm
not sure where. Please, help.
God Bless
Felix
Lupac:
It's all in the LoF part 16C.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html
It's too long to quote, but he explains what other verses like that one mean. John 11:26:
--- Quote --- And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
--- End quote ---
It should read:
--- Quote --- And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall not be dieing to the age. Believest thou this?
--- End quote ---
The King James translators left out two words, that contradict tons of scripture. Show your wife this verse in Ezekiel 18:4:
--- Quote ---Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
--- End quote ---
Linny:
Since we know that the Word will not contradict itself, let's look at another verse...
Joh 11:25 Jesus then said, "I am the one who raises the dead to life! Everyone who has faith in me will live, even if they die.
Now this obviously contradicts the verse in the translation you used. So let's look at it in another literal translation...
John 8:51(CLV) Verily, Verily, I am saying to you, If ever anyone should be keeping My word, he should under no circumstances be beholding death for the eon."
The word tranlated never in your translation comes from this word aion. See below.
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
Hope this helps.
Lin
Kat:
Hi Felix,
Well we can look at other places where Christ speaks of this, as we know "The sum of Thy word is truth" (Psa 119:160 ).
John 8:51 verily, verily, I say to you, If any one may keep My word, death he may not see--to the age.' (YLT)
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you: If anyone shall keep, my word, death, shall he not see, unto times age-abiding. (Rotherham)
John 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing My word, and is believing Him who sent Me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life. (YLT)
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that heareth, my word, and believeth in him that sent me, hath life age-abiding, and, into judgment, cometh not, but hath passed over, out of death into life. (Rotherham)
We know that He is speaking of the next age when He say "life age-during/abiding" in verse 24.
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, `I am the rising again, and the life; he who is believing in Me, even if he may die, shall live;
v. 26 and every one who is living and believing in Me shall not die--to the age; (YLT)
What seems to be a key statement in these Scriptures that speak of not seeing death, is the next phrase "to the age." Now if Christ was referring to this present age, wouldn't He have said 'this' age, the one that was present at the time? It seems to me He must have been referring "to the age" to come, when all must be judged and must crucify/die to the flesh. Except of course the Elect who have already been judged/crucified the flesh and now have immortal life and are reigning with Him during that age to come. As John 11 shows that Christ says "even if he may die" now in this life, "as it is appointed for men to die once" (Heb 9:27), but He goes on to say about the Believers "very one who is living and believing in Me shall not die--to the age."
Gal 5:24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
But yes we are all mortal until we are raised to immortality in the resurrection.
1Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
v. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
v. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Felix
I have not seen you in the forum. It is good to have you here. Welcome.
To not” see” death, could foreshadow that time or age, once there is victory over death and death shall be no more. We are mortal now. Mortality assures us of death yet not because of mortality but because of God's Plan and Design, there is a first death and a second death.
The second death is Judgment.
Death is part of the Plan of God for each individual to pass.
What your wife believes thinks, assumes, understands or has faith in is what only God can change. Debating never changes, repents or converts anyone. :)
Arc
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