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Author Topic: Attention to the words  (Read 2576 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Attention to the words
« on: February 08, 2010, 06:45:50 PM »


color=blue]One of the ex-members here in the Forum posted the following in 1996. Out of the eight respondents in the Thread, only two remain as members here. It is not important who wrote the topic, what is important is re-looking at the post with the knowledge we have acquired since 1996. Had the truth been made visible, perhaps the members, who have since left, may have still been here, but that is an assumption.

How much have we learned since then? Even if you are new in the Forum, you too have the available resources to participate and answer these questions.

How much better is our discernment and evaluation for what we see presented as the truth?

Can we learn from this?

Here is the post.[/color]

Luke 10
38As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
41"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."

Why did Jesus say it was better to sit and listen to what He said than to run about trying to do works for Him?

Now, look at something very telling, from John 11:

20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

 21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."

23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

 24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

 27"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

 28And after she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. "The Teacher is here," she said, "and is asking for you." 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.

 32When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."

 33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34"Where have you laid him?" he asked.
      "Come and see, Lord," they replied.

 35Jesus wept.

Then, as Jesus was about to raise Lazarus, notice what Martha said:

38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39"Take away the stone," he said.
      "But, Lord," said Martha, the sister of the dead man, "by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days."
 40Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"


Now, I'm sure a lot of people don't see what I see in that passage, and will probably dismiss this, but I believe it's very important.


Martha heard Jesus was coming, and went out to meet Him.  But what did Mary do?  She waited until Jesus called for her. Just as, at the house, she was not running about trying to "do things," she sat and listened to what He had to say.

Now, this is where it gets very deep, so please try to follow along. Mary and Martha both cried out to Him "If you had been here, my brother wouldn't have died."  BUT - look at the difference.  After Martha said that, she felt the need to "qualify her statement" or "defend herself" by saying, "but even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask."  

Well, did she?  Did she really believe that? No!  Just a few verses later, as Jesus was about to raise Lazarus, we read Martha's words "But Lord. By this time there is a bad odor, for He has been there four days.

She doubted that Jesus could raise Lazarus at that point.  And we see Jesus re-assuring her by saying "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?" So, did Martha deliberately lie, or did she just think she had the faith that she really didn't have?


There is something else to point out here.  When Martha went to Jesus, she did not fall at His feet.  When Mary went to Him, she did.  What does this tell us?  Here we have Martha, who wanted to run around "doing things" for Christ.  We have Martha who was quick to proclaim her "faith" that God would give Him whatever He asked.  But we also see that it was Martha who did not fall at Jesus' feet when she saw Him, and it was also Martha who began to doubt the miracle that Jesus was about to do - raise someone from the dead! The Scriptures do not indicate that Martha wept for Lazarus, and Jesus did not raise Lazarus when Martha pleaded with Him.


But what about Mary?  Mary did not go about trying to do works for Jesus.  She sat at His feet and listened to what He was saying.  Mary did not make the boastful comment that her sister did, saying that she believed God would give Him whatever He asked. Mary did weep for Lazarus, and Jesus did raise Lazarus from the dead after Mary pleaded with Him. Why?

Martha did not fall at Jesus' feet, but Mary did.  Which of the two truly worshipped Jesus?  The one who sat and listened and waited, or the one who ran all about trying to do things?

There is also a LOT more I could say about the account in Luke chapter 10, but this post is long enough.

I believe this re-enforces a very deep, hidden, biblical principle in the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, that almost no one sees.  You can read all about it in this post of mine:

*links not allowed*

Now, what I will say from this point will probably not agree with many folks, but I believe it so I'll say it.

I believe the Christian world is full of a whole lot of "Martha's" and very few "Mary's."  When I see these evangelists going out, running around on the streets, trying to "win souls," evangelizing to people, telling them they'll "burn in hell" if they don't repent, I can't help but see right through their works.  Do they have true compassion for the lost?  Do they really weep for the dead like Mary did?  They are quick to boast with their lips that they believe in Christ, just like Martha, but who was it that "compelled" Jesus to raise Lazarus from the dead?  You'll see them going about "doing many great works for Jesus," but do they even know or understand what He says?  Have they listened to what He says and then waited for His call, like Mary?  Have they really, in Christ's words, "chosen what is better?"

Think about this - Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.  The church seems to believe He's the Way.  They claim that He's the Life.  But do they really believe He's the TRUTH?   Jesus said the Spirit would guide us into all TRUTH. Well, is the Spirit telling Calvinists one thing, and Arminians another.  Is He telling Baptists one thing, and telling Methodists another?  Is He telling "pre-tribbers" one thing and "post-tribbers" something different?  We need to think about this.  Is Jesus calling Presbyterians to preach their theology, and then calling Weslyans to preach something that opposes it?  Is the church really sitting, listening, and waiting for Jesus' call?  Or is it a case of the church being "distracted by all the preparations that have to be made?"

Why are there so many divisions and denominations in Christianity?  In the words of Paul, "Is Christ divided?" Did Paul not chastise the Corinthians and call them carnal for splitting into factions? Jesus asked the Father that His followers would be united as one.  Do we believe that the Father will give Jesus whatever He asks?  Or are we like Martha?  Has the Father failed to answer Jesus' prayer, or is there something more that we need to look at?

Unquote…..
If we are to take the tools of discernment available to us in the 12 God Given Truths to Understand His Word published here at BT, can we be so easily persuaded that Scriptural interpretations given to us are valid or sound? Surely we have to apply what we learn and not just stop at agreement without application? To do so is of no service either to our own study of the Word or to anyone else.
Just one scripture torpedoes the entire premise given by the author, who may have very well have been saved from going into deeper errors had the members been more discerning than approving who responded then. I really do not want to be cruel or unkind yet there is one Scripture that has been overlooked.  That one Scripture says that Jesus addressed MARTHA saying Joh 11:40  "Did I not promise YOU," (Martha) replied Jesus, "that if YOU (Martha) believe, YOU (Martha) shall see the glory of God?"
We have to try so hard to pay attention to the words. We have to get past agreeing that it is correct and proper that we pay attention, we have to do it!~
It might be out of line to assume that maybe Ray might also feel overwhelmed by the thousands of e-mails needing his replies as like Martha having to do so much with so little help. Yet believing and running to meet the Lord, unlike Mary, Martha did not go whining and crying, howling and weeping falling into a heap at His feet while complaining and disbelieving in Him but running and standing before Him eye to eye in belief, that won the acknowledgement and reward.  
One of the ex-members here in the Forum posted the following in 1996. Out of the eight respondents in the Thread, only two remain as members here. It is not important who wrote the topic, what is important is re-looking at the post with the knowledge we have acquired since 1996. Had the truth been made visible, perhaps the members, who have since left, may have still been here, but that is an assumption. though it is a one page thread, there have been over 800 views of it since publication.
How much have we learned since then? Even if you are new in the Forum, you too have the available resources to participate and answer these questions.
How much better is our discernment and evaluation for what we see presented as the truth?
Can we learn from this?
Here is the post

Luke 10
38As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
41"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."

Why did Jesus say it was better to sit and listen to what He said than to run about trying to do works for Him?

Now, look at something very telling, from John 11:

20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

 21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."

23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

 24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

 27"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."

 28And after she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. "The Teacher is here," she said, "and is asking for you." 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.

 32When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."

 33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34"Where have you laid him?" he asked.
      "Come and see, Lord," they replied.

 35Jesus wept.

Then, as Jesus was about to raise Lazarus, notice what Martha said:

38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39"Take away the stone," he said.
      "But, Lord," said Martha, the sister of the dead man, "by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days."
 40Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"


Now, I'm sure a lot of people don't see what I see in that passage, and will probably dismiss this, but I believe it's very important.


Martha heard Jesus was coming, and went out to meet Him.  But what did Mary do?  She waited until Jesus called for her. Just as, at the house, she was not running about trying to "do things," she sat and listened to what He had to say.

Now, this is where it gets very deep, so please try to follow along. Mary and Martha both cried out to Him "If you had been here, my brother wouldn't have died."  BUT - look at the difference.  After Martha said that, she felt the need to "qualify her statement" or "defend herself" by saying, "but even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask."  

Well, did she?  Did she really believe that? No!  Just a few verses later, as Jesus was about to raise Lazarus, we read Martha's words "But Lord. By this time there is a bad odor, for He has been there four days.

She doubted that Jesus could raise Lazarus at that point.  And we see Jesus re-assuring her by saying "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?" So, did Martha deliberately lie, or did she just think she had the faith that she really didn't have?


There is something else to point out here.  When Martha went to Jesus, she did not fall at His feet.  When Mary went to Him, she did.  What does this tell us?  Here we have Martha, who wanted to run around "doing things" for Christ.  We have Martha who was quick to proclaim her "faith" that God would give Him whatever He asked.  But we also see that it was Martha who did not fall at Jesus' feet when she saw Him, and it was also Martha who began to doubt the miracle that Jesus was about to do - raise someone from the dead! The Scriptures do not indicate that Martha wept for Lazarus, and Jesus did not raise Lazarus when Martha pleaded with Him.


But what about Mary?  Mary did not go about trying to do works for Jesus.  She sat at His feet and listened to what He was saying.  Mary did not make the boastful comment that her sister did, saying that she believed God would give Him whatever He asked. Mary did weep for Lazarus, and Jesus did raise Lazarus from the dead after Mary pleaded with Him. Why?

Martha did not fall at Jesus' feet, but Mary did.  Which of the two truly worshipped Jesus?  The one who sat and listened and waited, or the one who ran all about trying to do things?

There is also a LOT more I could say about the account in Luke chapter 10, but this post is long enough.

I believe this re-enforces a very deep, hidden, biblical principle in the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, that almost no one sees.  You can read all about it in this post of mine:

*links not allowed*

Now, what I will say from this point will probably not agree with many folks, but I believe it so I'll say it.

I believe the Christian world is full of a whole lot of "Martha's" and very few "Mary's."  When I see these evangelists going out, running around on the streets, trying to "win souls," evangelizing to people, telling them they'll "burn in hell" if they don't repent, I can't help but see right through their works.  Do they have true compassion for the lost?  Do they really weep for the dead like Mary did?  They are quick to boast with their lips that they believe in Christ, just like Martha, but who was it that "compelled" Jesus to raise Lazarus from the dead?  You'll see them going about "doing many great works for Jesus," but do they even know or understand what He says?  Have they listened to what He says and then waited for His call, like Mary?  Have they really, in Christ's words, "chosen what is better?"

Think about this - Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.  The church seems to believe He's the Way.  They claim that He's the Life.  But do they really believe He's the TRUTH?   Jesus said the Spirit would guide us into all TRUTH. Well, is the Spirit telling Calvinists one thing, and Arminians another.  Is He telling Baptists one thing, and telling Methodists another?  Is He telling "pre-tribbers" one thing and "post-tribbers" something different?  We need to think about this.  Is Jesus calling Presbyterians to preach their theology, and then calling Weslyans to preach something that opposes it?  Is the church really sitting, listening, and waiting for Jesus' call?  Or is it a case of the church being "distracted by all the preparations that have to be made?"

Why are there so many divisions and denominations in Christianity?  In the words of Paul, "Is Christ divided?" Did Paul not chastise the Corinthians and call them carnal for splitting into factions? Jesus asked the Father that His followers would be united as one.  Do we believe that the Father will give Jesus whatever He asks?  Or are we like Martha?  Has the Father failed to answer Jesus' prayer, or is there something more that we need to look at?

Unquote…..


If we are to take the tools of discernment available to us in the 12 God Given Truths to Understand His Word published here at BT, can we be so easily persuaded that Scriptural interpretations given to us are valid or sound? Surely we have to apply what we learn and not just stop at agreement without application? To do so is of no service either to our own study of the Word or to anyone else.

Just one scripture torpedoes the entire premise given by the author, who may have very well have been saved from going into deeper errors had the members been more discerning than approving who responded then. I really do not want to be cruel or unkind yet there is one Scripture that has been overlooked.  That one Scripture says that Jesus addressed MARTHA saying Joh 11:40  "Did I not promise YOU," (Martha) replied Jesus, "that if YOU (Martha) believe, YOU (Martha) shall see the glory of God?"

We have to try so hard to pay attention to the words. We have to get past agreeing that it is correct and proper that we pay attention, we have to do it!~

It might be out of line to assume that maybe Ray might also feel overwhelmed by the thousands of e-mails needing his replies as like Martha having to do so much with so little help. Yet believing and running to meet the Lord, unlike Mary, Martha did not go whining and crying, howling and weeping falling into a heap at His feet while complaining and disbelieving in Him but running and standing before Him eye to eye in belief, that won the acknowledgement and reward.

Rom 10:11  The Scripture says, "NO ONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL HAVE REASON TO FEEL ASHAMED."

Arc
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