Does this describe me?

[myms]

From Ray's talk on marriage he states:

'If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you?  A whoremonger and a adulterer.  Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, "All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire."  Is that not clear enough there?  People don't put these things together.  If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer. '

I have been with my atheist partner now for ten years. Whilst I would like to be married, my partner sees no value in a written contract of marriage (especially after one failed marriage where his wife walked out on him) and has refused to go through another marriage ceremony with me. It was during our second year of being together that God led me to Ray's site and turned my spiritual life upside down and I have been steadliy growing in my walk with Him. Are my desires, aspirations and love for God all anulled because my partner refuses to marry me? Am I a whore, an adulterer and headed for the Lake of Fire?

In England the marriage certificate is of little value in protecting your wife/husband/partner in the event of death, a will is now the most powerful document you can have to provide protection and care for a loved one. My partner has a will that provides for me - but its not a marriage certificate!

Would anyone like to comment. I feel crushed by Ray's words above. That a situation over which I have no control could prevent me from reaching the finishing line! Myms

[mharrell08]

Would anyone like to comment. I feel crushed by Ray's words above. That a situation over which I have no control could prevent me from reaching the finishing line! Myms

I wouldn't worry about it...God's calling you, as your deep desire to help bring in His Kingdom testifies to that fact. God will direct your steps to assure you will be in His Kingdom. Christ is the author AND finisher of the faith [Heb 12:2]...if He has began a good work in you, He will finish it [John 4:34 & 5:36].

1 John 4:4  ...greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world

Jude 1:24-25  Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


Keep the faith Myms,

Marques

[DougE6]

Hello Myms

10 years is quite a while.  In your eyes, is he your exclusive lifelong partner? Do you think he feels the same towards you? Then, in many municipalities, you have what is known as a "common law marriage"

"Common-law marriage, sometimes called de facto marriage, informal marriage or marriage by habit and repute, is a form of interpersonal status which is legally recognized in some jurisdictions as a marriage even though no legally recognized marriage ceremony is performed or civil marriage contract is entered into or the marriage registered in a civil registry. A common-law marriage is legally binding in some common law jurisdictions but has no legal consequence in others. In some jurisdictions without true common-law marriages, for example, Hungary, the term "common-law marriage" is used as a synonym for non-marital relationships such as domestic partnership or reciprocal beneficiaries relationship.[1]

Common-law marriage is often contrasted with the ceremonial marriage."

I am pretty sure in some areas of the world your relationship would be recognized as a common law marriage, because of its length and exclusivity. That may give you some comfort.

But I think the most important barometer is your own conscience. If God has something to tell you, he will make it clear. Having a clear conscience before God is the ultimate test for all of us.  Ray talks about how nice a clean conscience is.  Was your conscience clean before reading that statement about whoremongers?

Generic advice...
If you are troubled, I would not rush into an immediate conclusion. The heart takes time to sort things out. Trust God.

If you are troubled, you need to pray, and give time for the answer to become clear in your own conscience. Trust God.

Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.  7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. ...Jesus

Doug

PS this is a very difficult area, because of the depth of the emotions involved.  Trust God, not my advice. So please take my advice only very lightly. Hopefully wiser counselors will help more. I just wanted to bring up the legal common law status that may help give you some other perspective.

Does your partner know how dear to you your beliefs are? Does he know them? As an athiest, I think he would find your
understandings much more palatable than orthodox christianity.  He may even find them fascinating, being so far out of the mainstream, and having such a powerful message too.

[myms]

Thank you Marques and Doug for your helpful and thoughtful comments. Yes of course, He is the author AND finisher of my faith, thank you for remindng me of that verse.

Doug  'Does your partner know how dear to you your beliefs are? Does he know them? As an athiest, I think he would find your
understandings much more palatable than orthodox christianity.  He may even find them fascinating, being so far out of the mainstream and having such a powerful message too.' Yes he's intrigued and asks a lot of questions but thats as far as it goes.....to date!

I really appreciate what you both have shared, many thanks.

Myms

[Lupac]

I know how you feel about finding out something may be wrong, and then worrying about it. I didn't even know there was an "unforgivable sin" (There isn't.) until I heard a theologian on the radio talking about it. Once I heard what it was, I started obsessing over it, and sometimes committing it, in my mind, then worrying about it, praying about it, its just the way I am. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you're committed you him, and you didn't even think about it until you read that, you're okay. 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Joh 4:16  He said to her, "Go and call your husband, and come back here."
Joh 4:17  The woman answered him, "I don't have a husband." Jesus said to her, "You are quite right in saying, 'I don't have a husband.'
Joh 4:18  For you have had five husbands, and the man you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true."

Remember Myms, the absolute v/s relative key to understanding Gods word. God speaks absolutely. Man speaks relatively.

GOD IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ETERNAL FATE OF AFRICANS
A Sermon by:
James Kennedy, A.B., M.Div., M.Th., D.D.,
D.Sac.Lit., PhD., Litt.D., D.Sac.Theol., D. Humane Let.
A Critique by:  L. Ray Smith

One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.
They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."
Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute." .

Myms, notice that the woman said that she did NOT have a husband. In HER mind, she was not married.  She spoke truthfully according to her conscience. Jesus spoke Absolutely from His Spirit.
 
Did Jesus contradict the woman?  No. Did He make her wrong? No. Did He send her on a guilt trip? No. He acknowledged her for speaking truthfully! Did Jesus make a mistake to call the man that she was with, her husband? NO.  He is her husband, in God's eyes and his accountability before God, AS HER HUSBAND  will be for his account before God.
Your partner shall be held accountable for you as your husband too and like the woman, you may well have the command to call your husband and come back to Christ where YOU KNOW  He is to be found - at the well of living water -there is no condemnation. Jesus knows about you and your partner. He knows and caused the circumstance you are in to elevate your faith, trust,  hope and aspiration in HIM. There is NO condemnation.

Arc

[Extol]

Marques and Doug,
Thanks for the great Scriptures/reminders. Lately I've been feeling kinda down; depressed because of the lusts of my flesh, and the worries of life (money, job, college, career, etc.)
Your posts reminded me that there is nothing I can do to overcome these things; I can only trust in God. He is working all things after the counsel of His own will. 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Opinion is worthless unless backed by the authority of the Word of God.

So here then is your answer.

1Co 8:1  Now concerning food offered to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
1Co 8:11  In that case, the weak brother for whom Christ died is destroyed by your knowledge.
1Co 8:12  When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak consciences, you are sinning against Christ.
1Co 8:13  Therefore, if food causes my brother to fall, I will never eat meat again, in order to keep my brother from falling.

If a man and woman live together, one partner would like to be married, the other partner does not, are they married before God?

As Adam was accountable and as Eve was accountable, let the man living out of wed lock with the woman be accountable and let the woman who suffers the disgrace be entrusted to the Wisdom of God  for her love of her spouse can surely win Gods mercy on his behalf. So say the Scriputures.

Which woman does not want to marry? Which man desires to toy with Jezabell but the fool in his folly.  All are accountable each for their own. To God's Mercy others are commended, for in truth God works out all things for the good for those who love Him.

Arc

[mharrell08]

To everyone else,

If a man and woman live together, one partner would like to be married, the other partner does not, are they married before God?

God would have to answer that question.  Unless God appears to you and tells you the answer, then we need to find the answer in his Scriptures.  If you know the answer to the question, do you have two or three scriptures that directly answer the question?  If you do not, of what value is your opinion?

Hello John,

Actually Ray teaches, using scriptural witnesses, on what marriage is. It's a bible study from Feb '07 found here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html

Also, what do you mean 'married before God'? Is that different than simply being married with the ceremony, vows, etc? Is it possible to be married 'not before God'? I'm simply curious as to what that phrase means.


Thanks,

Marques

[tinknocker]

Hi Myms,

You really got me thinking about what makes a marriage. As a married man coming up on 40 years in October you would think I would have a pat answer. I do not! As a 19 year old taking marriage vows I can tell you I had not a clue what I was committing too! Just because I have a marriage license somewhere (haven't seen it in 40 years) is not what makes me married. That piece of paper is not what stops me from being unfaithful to my wife. I don't wear a wedding ring, being in construction where it can be snagged in a piece of equipment (seen to many fingers lost do to rings), even that doesn't make me any less married. All the physical things, ceremonies, papers, rings, preachers, or justice of the peace,  is not what makes you married. Don't think I didn't want to ring my wife's neck on many occasions but by the grace of God we're still committed to each other. The only thing that keeps going through my mind is this verse;

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart plans his way, but the LORD determines his steps. 

So I guess it comes down too God determined I was going to be with/married to this person at the age of 19 years old until God says it finished. It's not done by piece of paper or man's law but by the love and commitment that God has provided to make it so. And then He blessed both of us with eyes and ears to hear and see the truth.

Just my thoughts from an old married man that loves his wife.

In Love
Tom

[bambam]

Tom,
   That was sweet!  Thanks!
Beth

[myms]

Hi all

Lots of good food for thought. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. What would I do without my brothers and sisters! Myms.

[Phil3:10]

Myms,
All is of GOD and I feel HE has you where HE wants you right now. Your witness may be the reason your partner may find GOD. Love him and let your example be the light to our LORD. There is too much ceremony and ritual without real commitment. Draw as near to GOD as you can and HE will work out the circumstances.
In HIM