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Pagan words
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 19, 2010, 04:54:31 AM ---Here's what threw me off.
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Which statement caused such confusion?
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 19, 2010, 04:54:31 AM ---Jesus spoke the truth, for truly this man had not sinned (however, Jesus did not inform them that it would have been impossible for him to sin before he was born). But Jesus did not expose this pagan heresy to His disciples at this time. For what possible reason would Jesus want to keep His own disciples deceived?
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--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 19, 2010, 04:54:31 AM ---Did Jesus really believe that there is such a god as this Beelzebub, god of dung?
Of course He didn’t, but neither did He expose this pagan heresy to the Pharisees either.
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--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 19, 2010, 04:54:31 AM ---Did Jesus Christ believe in reincarnation and the transmigration of immortal souls? Where did this teaching come from, and why does Jesus make reference to it? Why didn’t Jesus expose this pagan heresy to His disciples instead of going along with their false statements?
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--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 19, 2010, 04:54:31 AM ---Did Jesus believe that when people die, they are consciously alive and tormented in the pagan hell of the Greeks named after their pagan god, hades?
Why would Jesus use pagan religious doctrines and beliefs to teach spiritual truths of God? Haven’t these things deceived the Church and caused the many different denominations of Christendom? Yes, of course they have, and so have all the parables which Jesus taught that virtually no Church understands. The Church does not even understand the few parables that Jesus explained!
How many theologians believe and understand that all the parables are the same parable? Tis true:
"And He [Jesus] said unto them, Know you not this parable? And how then shall you know all parables? (Mark 4:13).
All parables are the same parable. I know: it boggles the mind. It takes the Spirit of God to understand these spiritual teachings.
And just as when Jesus said: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," no one understands what He meant until it was fulfilled. Everyone thought he meant the literal physical stone temple rather than His own body.
Likewise, only the "Chosen few" can understand the parables as they are fulfilled in their own lives, generation by generation, until the parables are fulfilled.
The Jews of Jesus’ day learned these pagan teachings referred to above, plus many more, but from where did they learn them? For a fact they did not learn them from Moses, the Prophets, or Hebrew Scriptures.
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Hey Roy,
I highlighted a few points to help...but if you can, please explain what statement exactly is confusing you.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Roy Martin:
Marques, I was so busy with all of it that I didn't notice this part;
But Jesus did not expose this pagan heresy to His disciples at this time. I'll try to find when He exposed it to them.
Thank you.
Roy
I'm sorry but all of it was confusing that Jesus knew the disciples were asking questions and making statements based on pagan beliefs. They obviously believed hades and sheol to be not just a grave, but some how I have never noticed in scripture where He corrected them. Was it after they were converted, being that they never understood anything He said until conversion?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 19, 2010, 05:11:32 AM --- I'm sorry but all of it was confusing that Jesus knew the disciples were asking questions and making statements based on pagan beliefs. They obviously believed hades and sheol to be not just a grave, but some how I have never noticed in scripture where He corrected them. Was it after they were converted, being that they never understood anything He said until conversion?
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Yes, after their conversion began:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come
Luke 24:44-45 He [Jesus] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Marques
daywalker:
Thought this would help clear things up further...
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm
TV ANALOGY
Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.
Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.
Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.
Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.
Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.
Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).
At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.
But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.
And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.
Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.
If you were to ask an ancient Hebrew person what happens to the soul (the thinking, feeling, animated, sentient personality of a man) at death, he would shrug his shoulders or say "who knows" or just say "it disappears." That's what "Sheol" meant to the Hebrews. It was a question mark. And the Greeks had their word for the same idea (Hades-the UNSEEN, the IMPERCEPTIBLE), and hades and sheol are synonymous in Scripture (Ps 16:10 & Acts 2:27).
There is one more profound Scriptural truth that is also perfectly analogous to the operation of a TV, and that is this: Picture God's Throne as the Broadcast Headquarters. The TV picture Tube, by itself, is not the source or originator of the picture it portrays on the screen. It is a channel for the signal transmitted from the TV Station and Tower. It can only manifest and portray on its screen that which is sent from the source [God]. And often the source [God] uses intermediaries like satellites [Angels] to relay the signals.
In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.
Daywalker 8)
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