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Author Topic: The Greek  (Read 4848 times)

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Oatmeal

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The Greek
« on: February 20, 2010, 03:02:36 AM »

εισερχομεθα G1525 V-PNI-1P

To save me time searching the Internet is there somebody who could tell me of a good site to learn about Greek tenses?

What does the V-PNI-1P mean in the above?

This is the first word of Hebrews 4:3 (in the Greek).

Is this something that we have done, are doing, will do, should be doing, or ??

I am debating with someone who is saying that because of Hebrews 4:3 he has entered into rest, and any of the other verses such as "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest" doesn't apply to him but is for unbelievers only and not for the converted..

Thanks
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From Micah 7:9:  By the grace and call of Yahweh I will bear the trials of the narrow way, because I have no love, until He fully shows me my sin and I am judged by Him.  He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall see His righteousness.

aqrinc

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Re: The Greek
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 03:57:45 AM »


Hi Oatmeal,

Below is an excerpt from Rays work for you. Best would be to read the Entire paper to get the understanding you seek. Read All Hebrews Ch 4 below, then go ahead and Read Rays paper for an indepth study.

Heb 4:1-16 (BBE)
1  Let us then, though we still have God's word that we may come into his rest, go in fear that some of you may be unable to do so.
2  And, truly, the good news came to us, even as it did to them; but the hearing of the word did them no good, because they were not united in faith with the true hearers.

3  For those of us who have belief come into his rest; even as he has said, As I said in my oath when I was angry, They may not come into my rest: though the works were done from the time of the making of the world.

4  For in one place he has said of the seventh day, And God had rest from all his works on the seventh day;
5  And in the same place he says again, They will not come into my rest.

6  So that as it is clear that some have to go in, and that the first hearers of the good news were not able to go in because they went against God's orders,
7  After a long time, again naming a certain day, he says in David, Today as he had said before, Today if you will let his voice come to your ears, be not hard of heart,
8  For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have said anything about another day.

9  So that there is still a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.
10  For the man who comes into his rest has had rest from his works, as God did from his.

11  Because of this, let us have a strong desire to come into that rest, and let no one go after the example of those who went against God's orders.
12  For the word of God is living and full of power, and is sharper than any two-edged sword, cutting through and making a division even of the soul and the spirit, the bones and the muscles, and quick to see the thoughts and purposes of the heart.

13  And there is nothing made which is not completely clear to him; there is nothing covered, but all things are open to the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14  Having then a great high priest, who has made his way through the heavens, even Jesus the Son of God, let us be strong in our faith.

15  For we have not a high priest who is not able to be touched by the feelings of our feeble flesh; but we have one who has been tested in all points as we ourselves are tested, but without sin.
16  Then let us come near to the seat of grace without fear, so that mercy may be given to us, and we may get grace for our help in time of need.


KEEPING SABBATH December 2007 Bible study

The Sabbath commandment is the longest of the ten commandments.


Excerpt from http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887

I will go into some of this when we go to Nashville.  It is an amazing study. 

But notice in Heb. 4.

Heb 4:3  For we who have believed do enter rest,  as He said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest…

That is one of those half-sentences that I talk about in the first installment of the Lake of Fire.  There are all different forms of signs and symbols and words structures and so on.  This is one of those half-structures, half-sentences.  When He says, “if they shall enter into my rest…”  What?  It just stops, it’s not a complete thought. Now here is what I want to emphasis.

Heb 4:3 … although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 

Now you all have read that in the past, right.  How many of you have ever thought about what it’s saying?  “the works were finished” when were they finished?  “From the foundation of the worlds” is what it says. 

When you build a building, is it finished from the foundation?  What are we talking about here?  I  tell you this stuff in the Bible… you just wouldn’t believe, it will blow you away.  As I have said you have got to pay attention to all the words.  “the works were finished from…”  When?  “the foundation.”  Concordant translates that “the disruption.”  Of course the disruption doesn’t have to do with some destruction, but “disruption” really specifically has to do with casting down of seed. 

When a man impregnates a woman, that’s the disruption or casting down of his seed, which is the foundation of what?  A new baby. 
So foundation means conception - the start - the beginning, the conception - the foundation.  How can the works of the creation be finished at the conception or from the conception - from the foundation - from the casting down - from the disruption (Concordant)?  How can it be finished from the start?  What in the world are we being taught here? 
I tell you it’s only in the last 10-20 years that we can possibly know what that really means. 

george :).
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: The Greek
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 08:13:14 AM »

Hi Oatmeal

Asserting that you have entered Gods rest is like claiming that you no longer sin.

Show me the person who no longer sins and I will show you where to find strong delusion.

Try taking bliss away from a fool and you may not get away unscathed.

Arc
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mharrell08

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Re: The Greek
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 09:48:37 AM »

I am debating with someone who is saying that because of Hebrews 4:3 he has entered into rest, and any of the other verses such as "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest" doesn't apply to him but is for unbelievers only and not for the converted.


Hello Oatmeal,

His premise of this verse applying to unbelievers only is false simply because of the fact that the writer of Hebrews refers to 'us who are believing'. The 'are believing/labouring' Greek word [G4100] is in the aorist tense [like a continuing action]. So it doesn't matter what tense G1525 is, at least in terms of this person's argument.

I don't think this person you are debating with believes ANY verse applies to him that doesn't fit his preconceived beliefs and doctrines. This is the mind of Christendom at it's worse...nothing is true unless THEY SAY it's true.

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time but I don't know the relationship you and this person have so there could always be more to the surface of such discussions...'do all to the glory of God' [1 Cor 10:31].


Hope this helps,

Marques
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: The Greek
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 01:20:21 PM »

Hi Oatmeal,

Hebrews talks a lot about entering into God's Rest. We either believe and enter into His Rest or continue doing our works to keep the Law of ordinances, which we cannot do. Else why then would we need to be in Christ to Spiritually Enter God's Rest (SABBATH)

Heb 3:10-15 (MKJV)
10  Therefore I was grieved with that generation and said, They always err in their heart, and they have not known My ways.

11  So I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter into My rest."
12  Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13  But exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14  For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
15  while it is said, "Today if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."

Heb 3:16-19 (BBE)
16  Who made him angry when his voice came to them? was it not all those who came out of Egypt with Moses?

17  And with whom was he angry for forty years? was it not with those who did evil, who came to their deaths in the waste land?
18  And to whom did he make an oath that they might not come into his rest? was it not to those who went against his orders?
19  So we see that they were not able to go in because they had no belief.

george :).

« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 04:07:10 PM by aqr »
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