Eternity in the Garden with a Serpent...

[daywalker]

Hello Everyone,

I had a bit of an epiphany... [well, at least for me it was... others may have already thought about this before...] But I wanted to share it because it was an amazing revelation and intriguing thought when it popped into my head... and has kept my head spinning ever since...

For those who may have read the hubs, but weren't aware... I am "Babylon_is_Fallen" on hubpages.com and I am writing a hub, and as I was writing it this sudden realization came to me... So I wanted to share an excerpt from my soon-to-be published hub...

It's about Adam and Eve:

"Here's a great question nobody ever asks: How come God never warned Adam and Eve about this crafty serpent that was roaming around Eden? God warned Adam and Eve that should they eat of the forbidden fruits that they would die; but not once did He say, "Oh, by the way. There's an evil serpent in this garden that has the gift of trickery. You better not talk with him, or else he may deceive you into eating that fruit I warned you not to eat."

...And here's yet another thought that literally just popped into my mind for the first time: Christians believe that God never intended for Adam and Eve to sin and be thrust out of Eden—that the whole human race was supposed to live in this Garden up to this very day, right? Yet, what if Adam and Eve never sinned and all humans lived in the Garden today. Guess who else would also be there to this very day? That's right—THE SERPENT! And not just any serpent...

Revelation 12:9 ...that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan...

That's right! Satan would be living in the Garden of Eden right along with Humanity if Adam and Eve never ate the forbidden fruit! Chew on that for a little while..."


Anyway, thought it was quite fascinating...

Daywalker 

[Samson]

Hello Everyone,

I had a bit of an epiphany... [well, at least for me it was... others may have already thought about this before...] But I wanted to share it because it was an amazing revelation and intriguing thought when it popped into my head... and has kept my head spinning ever since...

For those who may have read the hubs, but weren't aware... I am "Babylon_is_Fallen" on hubpages.com and I am writing a hub, and as I was writing it this sudden realization came to me... So I wanted to share an excerpt from my soon-to-be published hub...

It's about Adam and Eve:

"Here's a great question nobody ever asks: How come God never warned Adam and Eve about this crafty serpent that was roaming around Eden? God warned Adam and Eve that should they eat of the forbidden fruits that they would die; but not once did He say, "Oh, by the way. There's an evil serpent in this garden that has the gift of trickery. You better not talk with him, or else he may deceive you into eating that fruit I warned you not to eat."

...And here's yet another thought that literally just popped into my mind for the first time: Christians believe that God never intended for Adam and Eve to sin and be thrust out of Eden—that the whole human race was supposed to live in this Garden up to this very day, right? Yet, what if Adam and Eve never sinned and all humans lived in the Garden today. Guess who else would also be there to this very day? That's right—THE SERPENT! And not just any serpent...

Revelation 12:9 ...that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan...

That's right! Satan would be living in the Garden of Eden right along with Humanity if Adam and Eve never ate the forbidden fruit! Chew on that for a little while..."


Anyway, thought it was quite fascinating...

Daywalker 

Very Interesting Christopher,

                                           You present some thought provoking points, especially the one about Adam and Eve not being warned about the Serpent, at least there's no mention of a direct or indirect warning; Genesis. 3:1 introduces the Serpent that God made and his immediate confrontation with Eve. And we know the rest of the chain of events, but your right, how does Carrie and her supporters weasel their way out of that one, besides their implied reasoning that they usually come up with.

                                 Good Thinking, Samson.,

[Deborah-Leigh]

Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23  Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

God did not want to leave us in a half baked state, unfinished and unperfected in His Image. Death gives us the break to be resurrected into His Spirit or into His Judgment that shall complete what He has begun.

Death, one day will not have any purpose or sting. 

Arc

[indianabob]

Dear Arc,

Just your last statement has an interesting connotation.

"death has a purpose"

I wonder how many Christians have thought about that or even believe it?

Bob

[Deborah-Leigh]

To take it further Bob. Does God do anything without a purpose? If so what....ahhhhh....it just shows how great God is. A purposeful, deliberate not random unthinking accident. Oh no! There are no mistakes with God. All is in accord with the council of His Will.

It is wonderful to see a little bit more of just how grand God is! Thank you for your observsation.

Arc

[margo]

This is my first response for I am new to this forum, but felt led to respond today.  Just this morning The Lord was showing me about death, the serpent, and the garden and thought is was interesting as I was reading this on the forum today about this very subject.  Fist the Lord did say in Genesis 2:17 "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". In Gen. 2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.  So we see Adam gave names to all and to every beast of the field.  Now we have names.  Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. It looks like to me that maybe Adam even named the serpent.  God did say we would die if we eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam gives names to all, Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the women, Ye shall not surely die:  She did eat and also gave unto her husband.  Now we know there is a curse for the serpent. Gen. 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;   Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God , neither indeed can be.  Does any body here know what I am trying to say?  This is hard to put into words.   I guess I see the serpent = carnal mind=death, because all of these are the enemy.  Praise The Lord, death is swallowed up, 1Cor. 15:54.  Any comments?  Margo

[mharrell08]

This is my first response for I am new to this forum, but felt led to respond today.  Just this morning The Lord was showing me about death, the serpent, and the garden and thought is was interesting as I was reading this on the forum today about this very subject.  Fist the Lord did say in Genesis 2:17 "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". In Gen. 2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.  So we see Adam gave names to all and to every beast of the field.  Now we have names.  Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. It looks like to me that maybe Adam even named the serpent.  God did say we would die if we eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam gives names to all, Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the women, Ye shall not surely die:  She did eat and also gave unto her husband.  Now we know there is a curse for the serpent. Gen. 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;   Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God , neither indeed can be.  Does any body here know what I am trying to say?  This is hard to put into words.   I guess I see the serpent = carnal mind=death, because all of these are the enemy.  Praise The Lord, death is swallowed up, 1Cor. 15:54.  Any comments?  Margo

Hello Margo,

Ray touches on this belief of 'Satan=carnal mind' in his Lake of Fire series as well as a few email replies:

Excerpt from Lake of Fire series Part 15-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html):

About five times a year I get a long email from someone trying to prove to me that the "serpent in the Garden" was not Satan, but Adam's carnal mind, or some other such thing. God tells us, however, who Satan really is: "that old serpent." Proof:

    "And the great dragon was cast out, that Old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan"  (Rev. 12:9).

Is this not the same "crooked serpent and dragon" mentioned in Isa. 27:1 which God will yet punish:

    "In that day the Lord with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea"  (Isa. 27:1).

The word "liviathan" means: "SERPENT."

The word "dragon" means: "figuratively the constellation of the dragon; a sea SERPENT."

God is not going to "punish" a constellation in the sky or a fish in the sea. This is speaking of that great and wicked spirit: Satan, the Devil, that Old serpent, the dragon, the crooked serpent, the destroyer, the accuser, the Adversary.

Did "...the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan..." (Rev. 20:2), form himself out of a perfect angel/cherub, or did God form this serpent as he now is? Answer:

    "By His spirit He [God] has garnished [adorned] the heavens; His hand has formed the crooked serpent"  (Job 26:13).

God did not form a perfect cherub named Lucifer who then became the crooked serpent.

Satan was not an "Angel of Light which transformed himself into Satan," as the Christian Church teaches, but rather:

    "And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: or 'disguised'—Strong's #3345] into an angel of light" (II Cor. 11:14).

The "Lucifer became Satan" fable is Scripturally contradicted by the "Satan pretends to be an angel of light" truth.

Satan the serpent is a destroyer:

    "Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer" (I Cor. 10:10).

What is this "destroyer?" The word is taken from the Greek word, olothreutes, and guess what it means? It means "venomous SERPENT." This serpent is a "destroyer." God "formed the crooked serpent," and this serpent is a "destroyer." Isn't that the very purpose for which God created this "venomous serpent/destroyer?"

    "Behold I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for his work; and I [God] have created the waster [Heb: 'destroyer'] to destroy"  (Isa. 54:16).

Another reference to this destroyer:

    "The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way..."  (Jer. 4:7).

God had "sown His word into Adam and Eve." When the serpent appeared unto Eve, she still had that "sown word in her heart"—"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said [this is the word of God which was still sown in Eve's hear speaking—she retained it, and knew what God had said, and knew it to be the 'word of God'], 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die'" (Gen. 3:3).

The Word of God was sown to both Eve and Adam "by the way" and Eve certainly "heard" the Word in her ear, and took it "to heart." But it obviously was not well rooted. It had not as yet become part of her spiritual character. And so the serpent came on the scene very quickly:

    "And the serpent said unto the woman, 'Ye shall not surely die. For God does know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (Ver 4-5). 

The serpent appealed to Eve's carnal mind and took away the word of God. Next:

    "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes... she took of the fruit thereof, and DID EAT..."  (Ver. 6).

Now then, just who is it that Jesus tells us plainly "takes away the word" when it has not had time to be properly rooted? Answer:

    "And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, Satan comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts"  (Mark 4:15).

It was the serpent in the Garden, which took away the word of God from Eve. Hence we have proof that "the serpent" was "that Old serpent—Satan."

And although God said that "He" destroyed and killed the firstborn of Egypt, there is one verse that specifically tells us Whom it was that God used to accomplish this slaughter:

    "For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood upon the lintel, and the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer [permit] the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you" (Ex. 12:23).

We now have a mountain of Scriptural proof that Satan is "the serpent," and that he has always been the serpent from his creation:

   1. Satan is identified as:  "...that Old SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan..." (Rev. 12:9 & 20:2).
   
   2. God is going to punish "liviathan," and liviathan means, SERPENT. (Isa. 27:1).
   
   3. God calls this adversary, "...the piercing SERPENT..." (Isa. 27:1).
   
   4. God also calls him, "...that crooked SERPENT..."  (Isa. 27:1).
   
   5. God calls him, "that dragon..." Dragon comes from a Hebrew word meaning: sea SERPENT. (Isa. 27:1).
   
   6. God says, "...I have created the waster [Heb: 'destroyer'] to destroy"  (Isa. 54:16). In I Cor. 10:10 we learn that those who murmured in ancient Israel, and the first born of Egypt
       
      "...were destroyed by the destroyer," (I Cor. 10:10 and Ex. 12:23),
       
      and the word translated destroyer in I Cor. 10:10 means, "venomous SERPENT."
   
   7. And according to Job, Who was it that formed this "crooked serpent" in the first place?
       
      "...By His spirit He [God] has garnished the heavens; His hand has formed the crooked SERPENT"  (Job 26:13).
   
   8. Jesus said that "Satan comes immediately and takes away the Word."  Eve had God's Word, and it was taken away by the serpent, hence, Satan is the SERPENT.
   
   9. Was the Garden serpent a fallen cherub or was he a "serpent which God had made" AS a serpent?
       
      "Now the SERPENT was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made"  (Gen. 3:1).
 
   10. In Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 Satan is called "that OLD SERPENT." Could any serpent be older than the one God had made at creation and placed in the Garden?

Satan deceived our first parents in the Garden, and he has been deceiving the whole world ever since. There is absolutely not one scrap of Scriptural proof that Satan was a perfect cherub or that he has EVER exercised a power known as free will.

Satan thinks he has free will. Eve thought she had free will. All mankind still thinks he has free will. But the Scriptures disprove it over and over and over again.


Email and reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6300.msg50839.html#msg50839):

Dear Ray, On the subject of satan and who or what he is or isn't, I have this suspicion that WE, OUR, carnal mind or our twisted intellect is [MAYBE] this thing called satan. Are we not our own worst enemy? Isn't our evil thoughts our own? I have pondered this for a long time, please take a look at it and tell me what you think. Thank you! God bless you!

Mark


        Dear Mark:  Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job?  Did Jesus tells HIS OWN "CARNAL MIND" to "get behind Me, SATAN?" (Luke 4:8 )?  Did Jesus have a "carnal mind?" A "satan" within Him?  Is God going to chain the "carnal mind" in the abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-2)?  Is He then going to release  the "carnal mind" for a little season?

        I await your reply.

        God be with you,

        Ray


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Joel]

Ray has done an outstanding job, in all of his writings, by the Holy Spirit, showing what God intends to do with ALL of His creation.
To think that man should still be in the garden, was God's intention, raises the question--- how do you fit 6 billion plus people in what would seem to be a rather small plot of land???
Joel

[aqrinc]

Ray has done an outstanding job, in all of his writings, by the Holy Spirit, showing what God intends to do with ALL of His creation.
To think that man should still be in the garden, was God's intention, raises the question--- how do you fit 6 billion plus people in what would seem to be a rather small plot of land???
Joel

Hi Joel,

Depending on when the first human being was Created, 6 billion is like a thimble of water in the Pacific Ocean. We are talking about unimaginable size here, both infinitly small and large, wrap your brain around that one.

1Co 2:5-16 (GNB)
5  Your faith, then, does not rest on human wisdom but on God's power.
6  Yet I do proclaim a message of wisdom to those who are spiritually mature. But it is not the wisdom that belongs to this world or to the powers that rule this world---powers that are losing their power.

7  The wisdom I proclaim is God's secret wisdom, which is hidden from human beings, but which he had already chosen for our glory even before the world was made.

8  None of the rulers of this world knew this wisdom. If they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9  However, as the scripture says, "What no one ever saw or heard, what no one ever thought could happen, is the very thing God prepared for those who love him."

10  But it was to us that God made known his secret by means of his Spirit. The Spirit searches everything, even the hidden depths of God's purposes.

11  It is only our own spirit within us that knows all about us; in the same way, only God's Spirit knows all about God.

12  We have not received this world's spirit; instead, we have received the Spirit sent by God, so that we may know all that God has given us.

13  So then, we do not speak in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, as we explain spiritual truths to those who have the Spirit.

14  Whoever does not have the Spirit cannot receive the gifts that come from God's Spirit. Such a person really does not understand them, and they seem to be nonsense, because their value can be judged only on a spiritual basis.

15  Whoever has the Spirit, however, is able to judge the value of everything, but no one is able to judge him.

16  As the scripture says, "Who knows the mind of the Lord? Who is able to give him advice?" We, however, have the mind of Christ.

george .

[daywalker]

Ray has done an outstanding job, in all of his writings, by the Holy Spirit, showing what God intends to do with ALL of His creation.
To think that man should still be in the garden, was God's intention, raises the question--- how do you fit 6 billion plus people in what would seem to be a rather small plot of land???
Joel

Well, as we here all can see [thanks to God who gives sight to the blind...] the Church doesn't exactly "think outside the garden" ...if you know what I mean 

[Lupac]

"They say you should think outside the box, I don't even see the box." -me

[Deborah-Leigh]

Lupac

You need not worry.  God can see outside, inside, inside-out and outside-in the box. 

God  knows everything so why should we worry if we don't?

Arc

[Joel]

I once thought God dwelled in boxes with a door, stained glass windows, and a steeple with a cross on top. 
   Joel