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[Lupac]

Hello, I'm reading Ray's very long study on Genesis. It's very good, but I have a question. Okay, I firmly believe we are not created in the image of God, but God is creating man in his image, but then I ran into a problem. In Genesis 1:1, the word for create is the same word for create in Genesis 1:27. I know the Strong's numbers don't show tense. Are the tenses different in Genesis 1:1, and 1:27? If anyone has the CLV, maybe you can quote it. Thank you.

[mharrell08]

Hello, I'm reading Ray's very long study on Genesis. It's very good, but I have a question. Okay, I firmly believe we are not created in the image of God, but God is creating man in his image, but then I ran into a problem. In Genesis 1:1, the word for create is the same word for create in Genesis 1:27. I know the Strong's numbers don't show tense. Are the tenses different in Genesis 1:1, and 1:27? If anyone has the CLV, maybe you can quote it. Thank you.

Gen 1:1 is considered the 'perfect tense' and Gen 1:27 is considered the 'imperfect'. You can see more using Blue Letter Bible's concordance:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#top

Select the blue box with the 'C' to see the concordance for each verse.


Marques

[Lupac]

Okay, now I'm even more confused.

Genesis 1:27

So God (is) creating man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I edited the part that's wrong in the KJV, the other two times the word "create" appears to be translated correctly. What's that supposed to mean? the first part says God is creating man in His own image, then it says He created him in His own image, and He created them in His own image.

 

[Kat]

Hi Lupac,

Here is a section from the article no. 12 'God Judges the World in a Pond,' it should help you with this.

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html ------------------------

                                                NOT YET IN THE IMAGE OF GOD

Most of Christendom have been taught and believe that God created (past tense) man in the very "image of God." Oh really?

So if we want to see what the "image of God" really looks like, all we have to do is look at the vast sea of evil, sinning humanity? Or maybe you believe like many that Adam and Eve WERE (past tense) in the absolute, very IMAGE of God when they were created, but then lost that "image" when they sinned?

Few indeed realize that being made into the image of God is much the same as being saved—IT IS AN ONGOING PROCESS!

Check all the verses in the original: "now saving," "to save," "shall save," "might save," "are being saved," etc. "For by grave ARE ye saved through faith…" tells us HOW we are being saved, not WHEN (Eph. 2:08). Verses such as I Cor. 1:18 in the King James, "…but unto us which ARE saved it is the power of God," is not a faithful rendering of the Greek. Check an interlinear. The words are thus: "…to-THE YET ones-beING-SAVED US…" Yes, often the original manuscripts have only endings and not the complete word, as in "ING." It clearly shows and uncompleted action.

Creating man in God’s image:

King James Version: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; make and female created He them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).

Concordant Version: "And saying is the Alueim [Hebrew: elohiym, gods or used of the supreme God--plural of elowahh, a deity or the Deity], Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness… And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the Image of the Alueim He creates it. Male and female He creates them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).

So we see here the same thing we have already discussed with regards to the Greek aorist tense of verbs, as in "For God so lovED the world" versus "For thus God lovES the world." God’s love for the world CONTINUES! And creating man in God’s image also CONTINUES!

Lustful, carnal-minded, sinning, Adam and Eve were no more in the complete image of God at their physical creation than the Apostles were completely converted during the schooling under Christ’s teaching. It is all an ongoing process. We are even still being converted, and still being perfected, and still becoming more and more like God. How often I have heard preachers remark how Adam and Eve where in the very IMAGE OF GOD. THE TRUE IMAGE OF GOD DOES NOT SIN!

"For whom He did foreknow He also did predestinate TO BE conformed to the image of His Son…" (Rom. 8:29).

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we SHALL also bear the image of the heavenly" (I Cor. 15:49).

Presently, only Jesus Christ is the true "Image of God" (II Cor. 4:4).
--------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

Okay, now I'm even more confused.

Genesis 1:27

So God (is) creating man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I edited the part that's wrong in the KJV, the other two times the word "create" appears to be translated correctly.

Gen 1:27  So God created [imperfect tense] man [Heb. 'adam or mankind'] in his own image, in the image of God created [perfect tense] he him; male and female created [perfect] he them.

'The other two times', which use the perfect tense, are referencing God creating male & female. Only when referencing 'adam' or mankind does it use the imperfect tense, which denotes a continuing action. It is the correct tense to use because male & female were created then while mankind is BEING made into the image of God.

Sorry for the confusion,

Marques

[Deborah-Leigh]

You are not alone in your question Lupac. I believe Marques and Kat together satisfy the answer that in the days of Malachi, it was just not given or revealed yet! If you need to study  the word create some more, then here is some extra food for thought   It is not all there is either by a long shot. Ray has more astutely and eloquently expounded the differences between made and create in one of his Conferences.


Mal 2:10  Is there not one Father to us all? Has not one God CREATED us? Why do we act deceitfully, each man with his brother, to profane the covenant of our fathers.

The word created - H1254
בּרא
bârâ'
Total KJV Occurrences: 53
created, 33
Gen_1:1, Gen_1:21, Gen_1:27 (3), Gen_2:3-4 (2), Gen_5:1-2 (3), Gen_6:7, Deu_4:32, Psa_89:12, Psa_102:18, Psa_104:30, Psa_148:5, Isa_40:26, Isa_41:20, Isa_42:5, Isa_43:1, Isa_45:7-8 (2), Isa_45:12, Isa_45:18 (2), Isa_48:7, Isa_54:16 (2), Jer_31:22, Eze_21:30, Eze_28:13, Eze_28:15, Mal_2:10
create, 8
Psa_51:10 (2), Isa_4:5, Isa_45:7 (2), Isa_57:19, Isa_65:17-18 (3)
creator, 3
Ecc_12:1, Isa_40:28, Isa_43:15
choose, 2
Eze_21:19 (2)
cut, 2
Jos_17:15, Jos_17:18
createth, 1
Amo_4:13
dispatch, 1
Eze_23:47
done, 1
Exo_34:10
fat, 1
1Sa_2:29
make, 1
Num_16:29-30 (2)

The question you have was not answered in the days of Malachi. We are so blessed to have been chosen to know the answer today.


Mal 2:9  Therefore have I also MADE you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

The word made – appears in 1045 verses throughout the bible!

As Ray expounded, God does not say his creation of man is yet good but of everything else He has created, it is so. This also testifies to the truth that humankind is God’s Work that is still progress.  Only Jesus Christ is the First Fruit of many other Sons and Daughters that will follow.

Rom 8:22  And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23  And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first fruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.

Arc

[Deborah-Leigh]

in biblical Hebrew there is no true past tense or future tense.  The translator has to add those tenses based upon his own understanding

I had forgotten that valid point John. Thanks for the reminder!

-That with two or three witnesses let every truth be established.

The two or three witnesses are not people who agree either. It is as Ray expounds, the witness is the Word of God not the understanding or agreements of man.
Christiandom falsley teaches and practises the lie of agreements between them selves as representing God.

Arc

[ARisingSon]

HELP!!!  How do I access Ray's Genesis study?  Thanks.   Earl

[mharrell08]

HELP!!!  How do I access Ray's Genesis study?  Thanks.   Earl

Audio:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html (2008 Nashville Conference & Nov 2008 bible study)

Transcripts:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9502.0.html (Parts 1-6)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.html (Parts 7-10)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8831.0.html (Last half of part 10)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9130.0.html (Nov 08 bible study)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10538.0.html (Time & Eternity bible study)

Videos:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.html (2008 Nashville Conference & Nov 2008 bible study)


Marques

[ARisingSon]

FANTASTIC!!  Thanks, Marques.    Grace be with you.  Earl

[Deborah-Leigh]

  Enjoy! Earl  

Please let us know what stands out for you if you come across anything that has special meaning for you or if you have any questions.

Arc