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[Deborah-Leigh]

Dear Forum

I am sure that my experience of my flesh and blood sister rejecting me is not uncommon to most of you who have embraced and been given by God, eyes and hearts to see and love His truths we share here.

It may not be a sister who turns against you. It might me a mother or father who become indignant, offended and hostile to the liberty of the Spirit and Mind of Christ that comes to settle in with us as we are drawn nearer to our freedom from darkness into His Light. She is in the experience of the Baptist Church espousing Hell and all such other Doctrines of Demons.

The following e-mail response to my sister is self-explanatory.  I have changed her name to keep the dignity of confidentiality.  I have more than one sister,  many  in the flesh and few in Spirit. It is not easy or clear how to be objective with our siblings is it?

I know she is blind as I was once too. I know and trust God has her exactly where He intends for her to experience the deep dark merciless works of her blind guides. She was told she is cured of Diabetes and collapsed into a near coma three times already. Rather that than go to hell huh?

I find deep comfort in knowing God has her soul and destiny of joy to come in His Hands and Plans for her no matter what happens! Here is the reply I sent to her after she told me yesterday she was told by the lord....yes...no caps...(You and I know God, our LORD has authored this through the lord, in accordance with the council of His Will and Plan for my dear and very sweet sister!)

Dear Flavia
Repentance (change, conversion, salvation, being saved, born again) DOESN’T come because of the scare tactics and threats of ministers who need mercy for themselves. Repentance (change, conversion, salvation, being saved, born again) comes through the UNFAILING LOVE of a perfect God who cares for the cracked vases that others would have discarded ………Quoted from a comment in the notes published in The Greatness of God’s Goodness Bible titled Woman Thou Art Loosed edition. (Caps and brackets mine)

Your decision to “cut me off” I believe is motivated by fear of Hell, Demons, Possession, Satan and all the nonsense that convinces, encourages and falsely teaches you to keep your eye on Satan and the demons, you have been taught to accept as the way to follow the truth which is blasphemy and heresy producing fear of your own shadow, terror of stupid dead, blind statues and other such objects that you are taught have powers of devils. Those false teachings are against God who truly teaches us to believe and have faith to follow and accept what HE says that perfect love casts out fear Flavia.

Read, absorb, assimilate, trust and believe Cor 1 : 13….

You say you have heard from The Lord who has told you to “cut me off “. Please show me the Scriptures that have told you to do this so I too know that it is from The Lord. If you cannot show me the Scriptures that have motivated you to “cut me off” then I shall rest in the knowledge that you have heard from the lord of darkness and not from my Lord and yours, of Love and Light, Power and Peace.
Love to you

Deb

[Linny]

I am so sorry Deb. I think your letter is very to the point and beautifully written. I have a sister who is the wife of a minister and lives 12 hours from me. She just recently found out we weren't going to church and we've been out since early 2008! She railed on me in an email about it but since she didn't actually ask me a direct question, I chose to ignore it. My brother-in-law, her husband knew that and that we don't believe in hell but that is about all my husband shared with him over a year ago and he apparently didn't share his conversation with my sister. He is a very loving man and was not terribly upset about our new beliefs. He actually said that although he felt the Bible proved hell, he hoped we were right!

We have yet to be cast out of anyone's life but I personally feel like it is bound to happen one day. We only share our beliefs with those who we have felt led to share with and so far no one has disowned us. I have several acquaintances that I think might.

Funny thing that just this morning, the mother of the 4 yr old we keep came in and told my husband that she met someone who doesn't believe in hell! She was completely outraged! Of course, we'd love to know who it is so we could meet them! 

We felt it was a sign that she is definitely NOT ready to hear what we believe. I think she'd pull her little one out of our "demonic" home immediately.  I have been wanting to share with her as she is overly concerned about her family members going to hell and I had wanted to give her some peace.
Not the right time. 

I hope your sister rethinks her decision for both your sakes but at least you have the knowledge that all is God's plan and if this happens you know He has a purpose for it.

Blessings, Lin

[lauriellen]

quote from your email:
"I find deep comfort in knowing God has her soul and destiny of joy to come in His Hands and Plans for her no matter what happens!"

i find deep comfort in this knowledge too.....thanks for the reminder.
lauriellen

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thanks Linny - maybe she will be cured of her Diabetes due to her disassociation  to me -  I think this is a test of faith!  ??
As you say, God has a purpose for this.

Right lauriellen. God is in charge all the time everywhere.
I have not felt so personally affected by the false teachings in Babylon ever before. They care nothing to sacrifice a persons life just to keep hold of their dellusions and my sister will sacrifice me to keep hold of hers.

Arc

[Linny]

Arc, could you clarify Cor 1:13 for me?

[Deborah-Leigh]

That Scripture has a personal meaning for me Linny. Whether or not my sister will recall, it was the Scripture that was read at our mothers funeral. Its beautiful message,  holds much peace and comfort, I think, for anyone who is traumatised by the feeling that God is going to torment any of His creation in demonic pagan type hell, for endless time!

The Scripture of what God says in that chapter 13 of 1 Cor, may touch her or speak to her in ways I can not do if it is in the Plan of God. If not, I am touched by the significance of power in God to overcome all the fears and distrust, hopelessness and faithlessness in the carnal ignorant world. God will correct it all. 

Also, for me, 1 Cor : 13  shows to me, the many things that Penticostal and Baptist congregations still ignor. Perfect love casts out fear and my sister is so fearful of curses demons and hell that her blind guides have persuaded her to fear, that she may have lost sight of the love of God, that endures, surpassed and excells above all human imagination.

Thank you for asking. I hope this explains what I mean a little better.

Arc

[Linny]

Thank you Arc. I also find the following to be quite confirming about just how much our God loves us.

Rom 8:35 What shall be separating us from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Affliction, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Rom 8:36 According as it is written that "On Thy account we are being put to death the whole day, We are reckoned as sheep for slaughter."
Rom 8:37 Nay! in all these we are more than conquering through Him Who loves us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor messengers, nor sovereignties, nor the present, nor what is impending, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."

[Joel]

I just had to say a word on this one--I can sympathize with you very much, I am the eighth of nine siblings. God new us ALL before we broke the womb, saw us nurse, grow, saw our first tooth come in, and the first step we ever took. Saw our days at play, our rebelliousness, and loved us because He is Love. Two brothers have passed away, now theres only five girls and two boys left. NONE see God, or understand the Word that God has shown us. Will they ever? hopefully, and prayerfully so. Why me? why you? What a marvelous God WE serve!!!!!. 

[Roy Martin]

Look for the blessings in all things.
 I have found more blessings in things like this than I have found in the good things.

Roy

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is marvelous that you are caused to present those scriptures Linny.

We see the text of the Word of God, yet still there are few who understand that we have to pass through affliction,  distress,  persecution, famine,  nakedness,  danger, or sword which is precisely what Paul passed through to the realization that….
 
Rom 8:36 According as it is written that "On Thy account we are being put to death the whole day, We are reckoned as sheep for slaughter."
Rom 8:37 (AND)… in all these we are more than conquering through Him Who loves us.

Only after passing through the testing of his faith, the purging of his natural understanding, could Paul convincingly write the following:

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor messengers, nor sovereignties, nor the present, nor what is impending, nor powers,

How much credibility would Paul have if he had lived his life on satin cushions? He was stoned and left for dead. He had the thorn in his side that Ray has identified as a demonic messenger buffeting him relentlessly. The list goes on and on. Paul had to speak before the authorities of State and he too went before impending powers.
  
God has not given my sister to live in a lap of luxury either. I feel for her. She has suffered great distress that  my husband and I offered to share our home and shop with her. God caused her to turn the offer down three times though I get the distinct impression from her,  that she is going from bad to worse. This is my trial to not see according to human sensitivities as Peter did to earn the rebuke of Christ for Satan to get behind Him! Jesus had to endure the cross.We have to endure our tribulations!

That Paul was finally persuaded that. …….…

Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."……….. and your posting these particular scriptures Linny,  serve as encouraging sign posts of God’s assurance for us all – that leads into exactly how you conclude Joel what a marvelous God! Yes it is God that is opening our hearts, minds and souls to feel, love and adore Him! You ask Joel,

Two brothers have passed away, now there’s only five girls and two boys left. NONE see God, or understand the Word that God has shown us. Will they ever?

Absolutely, categorically, firmly, definitely, resolutely and downrightly  YES!  This includes my lost, aching blind sister that shall one day be joyfully kneeling with every knee that shall bow including us all here too who may have been blessed to be caused of God to sooner rather than their later    as gratitude and peace in the confirmation of His Plan for us all emerges more and more as this post unfolds.

Thank you for sharing, caring and responding and yes Roy, it is  a blessing of great comfort that God gives us peace though our trials that I believe non of us would like to re-visit or re-experience!   Like a Baptism of fire....it hurts and He heals with much more joy and reward that entirely eclipses our pain. Like the birth of a baby.....

Arc

[Felix]

Arc
In our Baptist church we had this witnessing program called "faith". We would visit people telling them
how to be saved. Sometimes someone might say, "why would a loving God send someone to hell?"
Our response would be James 2:13 "For judgement is without mercy". I never took the time to look up
this verse to see if that's what it meant. In other words that God is merciless if you die and are not saved.
I trusted in the leaders who were telling me this stuff.
We know that Gods love endures forever. I now really believe that God is love.
May your sister know that God is love.
Felix

[Deborah-Leigh]

Felix

Thank you for exposing a serious corruption in just one of the many ways Christendom perverts God’s Word.

I know this, that false belief in the lies of Babylon has its price that God only, can redeem, through His Judgment, Mercy, Wisdom, Love, Spirit and Truth.

I have realized that I never did come to believe through the foolishness of preaching of Babylon but through the true expounding of the Word of God that we share here in BT, I was brought by the Spirit of Truth to my senses.

I prefer to stay awake and not faint, despite the pain.

Arc

[Linny]

Well Arc, I must say RIGHT BACK AT YOU. You will never know just how timely your response was to me.   
I got out of the shower this morning to find my precious husband sobbing in the bed. Then as our day went on and talking to each other, I was the one crying over his pain and despair. Please know that his thoughts are really not even for himself. He grieves for me and the girls not having what we need and for the world of people who go through such horrible trials.
He takes on all of it (we just got out of our 2nd foreclosure) to keep me feeling secure but he is feeling so ignored by God right now wondering if all this pain and torment is just for nothing and we must just endure it alone until the resurrection when it will all be made okay for us. I SO needed those words your shared and will share them with him.

May you have a blessed day. And if you think of us, please pray that we might get some relief. Especially my husband who is so loving and giving and needs a break from his stress.

Lin

[DougE6]

Hello Arcturus

I read your post concerning your sister and it touched me. How sorrowful. There is a cost to following Christ, yet we could never go back, could we. How can it be that anyone would actually want to return to the doctrines of Babylon, now that we are free from them and see those doctrines for what they are.  I would rather have never been born than to have to ever embrace those doctrines again.  It would be impossible.  I would not, I could not. Yet I did believe them, at one time.  The delusion is certainly powerful.

I have lost one good friend completely.  He has cut me totally out from his life, now for over five years.  He was a friend for 20 years and we had quite an email exchange as I started to embrace these new understandings.  I must say he tried to convince me and I tried to convince him for a couple years, but then he gave up and now counts me as a reprobate.  I still send him messages once in a while as I have ZERO ill will towards him, but I know he feels I am one of the unelect or reprobates...he is a Calvinist. He never responds.  One thing I did learn..debating these issues is a lost cause.  Do not even try.  If the ears are closed and eyes are blind, nothing one says will penetrate a hard heart.  If then heart has been softened by God, these truths will be like sweet water to the dehydrated man dying of thirst.

I think calvinism is probably the most hideous form of the doctrines of demons found in Babylon.  To think that God by His choice created people for the express purpose of torturing them for all eternity to show his glory is unimaginable, and it is amazing how they can be so blinded by their supposed chosen elect status that they are OK or even rejoice in that? Unbelievable.  It must be the ultimate expression of self centered selfishness to believe like that.

I am truly sorry to hear of your sister rejecting you.  She doesn't know what she is missing!  Thankfully it will only be for a short while.

Doug

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is so wonderful having this fellowship with you all here in this thread. It is like having a private booth at dinner time and we are all seated here together sharing the bread and wine of the Spirit and Love of our Lord in the Banquet Hall owned and provided by God.

Our conversations here all recall the suffering of our Lord who went before us and has arrived at the Victory won that He is sharing with us today as we fellowship in His Spirit.

Linny you say of your sweet husband that…

he is feeling so ignored by God

That is a very real and agonising experience, we all suffer at some time some place in His Work within us. Having said that does not diminish the pain.
I recall the absolute agony of uncertainty regarding the loss of my physical residence before God established my boundaries elsewhere.  I believe God causes us to endure, suffer and then be blessed with the joy of His provision either in this life time or in the next. Either way, God is the one to bring to us His light of our day, after He makes us stand at the painful edge of our lives don’t you think? 

Act 17:24  God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25  Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26  And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

DougE6 I am so glad you have joined us at this table. You are welcome and you bring, like the others here have done, your own unique gifts of encouragement and upliftment. Thank you.

It was sore to learn that God DID cause my sister to cut off ties with me. It was painful to see that at first, I made the mistake of having my vision blurred by the blow to my heart. You know, like being punched and for a moment you see double. Well that is what happened to me. I was seeing double, in defiance of everything I know better to believe! I know GOD CAUSES EVERYTHING, not some equally or more potently powerful demon that is at war with God. Demons OBEY GOD perhaps better than any one of us carnal, natural vanity bound weak hearted plank eyed citizens of Gods workshop that is making us into His Image!

What a weak insipid thing I have experienced through myself that God has removed or will continue to remove. NEXT time I get side swept, then God forbid, I see double ever again!

Doug, you say quote “yet we could never go back, could we”…I prefer not to take that for granted because the Scriptures do say there are some who within the prize of their liberty, they still resent where they are. Only two from the Hebrew nation, Caleb and Joshua, were found worthy to enter the promised land. Moses only saw it from a distance!  That’s some food for thought isn’t it?

We can or should take nothing for granted and YES I do see your view point and YES I can really stand side by side with you to agree that NOTHING is worth the departure from what we have been graced to have learnt about the Truth.

You provide this comment quote “sweet water to the dehydrated” Yes DougE6 that is the water of His Spirit that assures we shall thirst no more! God rids us all of our carnal double mindedness through the suffering that we are appointed through His Love and Mercy, to endure and finally in His Spirit, overcome.

I have truer sisters and brothers, mothers and fathers, friends  and family here at BT, than in my flesh and blood life that God is dissolving.

As Linny observed earlier on, God has a purpose….and what a wonderful and blessed loving purpose that is! I hope your husband is doing better today Linny.

Arc

[DougE6]

Wow

Arcturus, you can say so much truth in each sentence! "Demons OBEY GOD perhaps better than any one of us carnal, natural vanity bound weak hearted plank eyed citizens of Gods workshop that is making us into His Image!"  I think you just referred to about a couple dozen bible verses that come refreshed to my mind in just that one sentence alone! LOL

Yes I agree that we must guard our hearts and take nothing for granted.  That Moses only saw the promised land from a distance is indeed very sobering. My goodness, the miracles God did through him, the ten commandments, Mt Sinai, crossing the red sea, 5 books of the bible. I guess that shows the sovereignity of God pretty clearly.  He gave Moses much, and made his name great, but did not give him everything. So I appreciate that admonition cause it was correct and apt; cause I can think of my weaknesses and I know only by the grace of God will I make it to the promised land, I am in training and running the race so that my greatest desire is to reach it, it is the pearl of great price that one has to sell all to get; yet I believe the understanding and more importantly, whole hearted acceptance of these truths are a signpost that this is a stepping stone to that destination!

IF sadly,  I was to become a castaway, I believe it would not include a rejection of these truths because I seriously could not go back to eternal hell belief, it would destroy me;  but it would lie in my not dying daily to my carnal desires and letting the spirit rule me in ever increasing measure.  I judge myself and allow Gods fiery trials, and yes some have been almost more than I can bear, do God's work in me.  I hope it does continue to the day of Christ Jesus, God's workmanship, in me, I mean. That is the only way to make it, if he keeps and preserves me, as His workmanship.

[firefly77]

IF sadly,  Sad I was to become a castaway, I believe it would not include a rejection of these truths because I seriously could not go back to eternal hell belief, it would destroy me;  but it would lie in my not dying daily to my carnal desires and letting the spirit rule me in ever increasing measure.  I judge myself and allow Gods fiery trials, and yes some have been almost more than I can bear, do God's work in me.  I hope it does continue to the day of Christ Jesus, God's workmanship, in me, I mean. That is the only way to make it, if he keeps and preserves me, as His workmanship.

Great subject... great posts! Thank you!

Angie

[bambam]

Arc,
 This is a topic much needed in my life at this time.  No one has deserted me...yet.  But once I begin to tell people the truth-they aren't going to like it.  Thankfully my only sister is at the very least sympathetic to me becasue she and her husband left the church system years ago and boy did they go through the wringer-people still pester them about getting in a good church.

Anyways, that's off the subject.  I appreciate your strength, knowing it is God working in you.  I ask for strength and courage to tell it like it is to those around me.  My husband has already heard it, and he disagrees with me but has not disowned me.  I hate hiding and I pray that I can be bold.  I want to leave my church but just can't do it at this time knowing the stir and pain it would cause.  Maybe in the coming months and years God will drag me out.  I pray He does because I am sad and discouraged there.  I know people may turn against me-it's inevitable.  But God will be with me.  Thank you for sharing your situation and your heart.

Beth

[Deborah-Leigh]

Beth

I believe it is for people like you, like my sister, like your husband and like all the captured souls under the tyranny, oppression, domination, despotism and cruelty of hypocrisy, insincerity, double standards and two-faced deception and dishonest, murderous,  mortally deadly poisonous  plagues of Babylon, that God has warned us about,  it is for people like US, for US, that God has prepared and equipped  our L. Ray Smith to  be the one appointed to reveal the clenched fist of God’s rebuke against the quote “swill” that  “keeps the world starving from malnutrition “  L. Ray Smith.

My own sister may lose her life due to the pressure to appear faithful ,after being manipulated to cut me off, that I know is caused by God, yet this purpose may well be to exhibit  in real life terms, the extent of depravity to which the murderous Babylon will go to disfigure marriages, relationships, families and the sanity of sound minded understanding that is destroyed by sham, trickery and deceptive practices of Harlot Babylon.
   
Strictly speaking, Christendom should be held accountable for culpable homicide.   It will be!

Let us stay strong as Ray exhorts us too.

Arcturus

[DougE6]

Arc

I will pray for your sister, and you.

Doug