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Author Topic: Father's Judgment  (Read 5558 times)

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ARisingSon

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Father's Judgment
« on: March 04, 2010, 12:24:54 PM »

Lately I've read so much from the"ministry" stating God's judgment is being imposed upon the world. This being evidenced by the earthquakes in various places, the worldwide financial crisis,upset weather conditions,etc.  Is Father sending judgment upon the world now? Thought that was the purpose of the Great White Throne judgment?      Has Ray written on this? Any links and/or comments will be appreciated.
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Samson

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 12:56:48 PM »

Lately I've read so much from the"ministry" stating God's judgment is being imposed upon the world. This being evidenced by the earthquakes in various places, the worldwide financial crisis,upset weather conditions,etc.  Is Father sending judgment upon the world now? Thought that was the purpose of the Great White Throne judgment?      Has Ray written on this? Any links and/or comments will be appreciated.

Hi: A Rising Son,

                       Before I enter the copy and paste dealing with Judgement from Ray's Teachings, I just want to express the fact that I came from a very Apocalyptic Denomination(The JW's) and found that after my exit, they were in grave error regarding " the time of the End;" " Christs Return; " conditions expressed at Matthew. 24:3-12(Earthquakes, Pestilence, Famine; etc), as different time periods through History have had an abundance of these conditions(notably the 12th Century) and those that claimed the Judgement and Christ's return were coming at their prescribed time. However, I don't want to get into that too much on this Post, if you want to Pm me regarding this investigation after leaving the JW'S, feel free to do so, I will get back to you when I'm able to, time contraints and things like that. Read below in blue a copy and paste in blue of Two Sub-Headings taken from Ray's Twin Tower article from the front page of this Site, it deals with Judgement on America, not too much about Judgement elsewhere. I'm sure other members will enlighten you further.

WHY JUDGMENT IS COMING ON AMERICA

"Wherefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay [Heb: ‘rely’] thereon: Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as…" (Isa. 30:12-13a).

Despise, oppression, perverseness, iniquity…" Just words to most people who read this, but these words portend sinister consequences for all those guilty of them. Here are some definitions from Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary:

despise: "despise, abhor, spurn, cast away, distain, loathe, refuse, reject…"

God says that whoever it is that is represented as Judah/Israel in the prophets regarding end-time prophecy, they "DESPISE this word." Try and convince any professing Christian that he "despises" God’s word. You better be ready to run.

oppression: "injury, fraud, distress, unjust gain, extortion, oppression, deceitfully gotten."

perverseness: "turn aside, depart, perverse, froward."

And, of course, every one of these definitions also have definitions, and so after a couple of generations of definitions, we have a mountain of evil, sick, greedy, perverse carnality. And that is why Isaiah starts off his prophetic book with these words:

"Ah sinful nation [OUR nation], a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone out of the way backward.

Why should you be stricken any more? You will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart is faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is NO SOUNDNESS IN IT…" (Isa. 1:4-6a).

 

AMERICA—A CHRIST-LIKE NATION OR A "CHRISTIAN" NATION?

I could write a lengthy article on all the sins and abuses, crime and corruption in the United States, but that is not the emphasis of this paper, although it is a very important part of it. Let me make just one observation for you:

The United States is a "Christian" nation, but is not very "Christ-like." Of all Americans, 82% claim to be Christian; only 4 percent are atheists. Now then, the United States has 2,000,000 of her citizens in jail (that’s one out of every 136 persons). That’s a higher per capita rate than Iraq!—seven times that of Germany. The state of Maryland has more of her citizens in prison (not per capita, but more numbers of prisoners) than the entire country of Canada. In fact, the United States of America has a larger per capita prison population than ANY OTHER NATION ON EARTH, AND MOST ALL AMERICAN PRISONERS ARE CHRISTIANS. A total of 7,000,000 Americans are either in prison, on probation, or on parole.

Okay, just one more statistic: Seventy-two percent of Americans believe that Politicians are CORRUPT! Do we think that statistic is baseless? According to CBS News 58% of Americans think that corruption in government is "WIDESPREAD." Well, did Isaiah prophesy: "…the whole HEAD is sick."

 

ENTER THE 21st CENTURY SEERS OF GOD

Now for maybe the most incredible part of all in this prophecy of Isaiah when:

"…it shall come to be for the day hereafter, for the future, till the eon"

Our day. The END of this eon and the ushering in of the next.

What saith our great United States seers and prophets concerning this destruction of the World Trade Center? Was the World Trade Center destruction accomplished by the ingenious thinking of a handful of Arab terrorists, or by the Hand of God?

I’ll give you the Scriptures: you’ll have to decide for yourself. Amos 3:1-7:

"Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" NO.

"Will a lion roar in the forest, when he has no prey?" NO.

"Will a young lion cry out of his den, if he has caught nothing?" NO.

"Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no trap is for him?" NO.

"Shall one take up a snare [does a snare spring up] from the earth, and have taken [caught] nothing at all? NO.

"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?" NO.

"Shall there be EVIL in the city, and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?" NO

"Surely the Lord God will no nothing, but He reveals His secret unto His servants the prophets."

Well that is what the Scriptures teach, but it is not what Christian theology teaches. They teach and believe that the answer to the first six propositions God presents, is "NO." But to the seventh, and final, and most important of all propositions, they answer "YES." YES, all evil in the cities happens independent of God.

God proposes six propositions, to which the answer is always "NO," so there will be NO doubt in anyone’s mind when He comes to the seventh proposition, there can be no question as to whether God is responsible for "evil in the city."

These Truths of Scripture are too high for any carnal mind to comprehend. How can "God" bring such evil to the cities? How could "God" destroy the World Trade Center? WHY would "God" destroy the World Trade Center? What saith the great seers of America? What advice do the prophets and seers of this great nation offer, when "a trumpet is blown in the city"—When God gives America a final "WAKE-UP call?" Let us see:

"That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will NOT hear the law of the Lord:

Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets [inspired person, seer, spokesman, interpreter of divine revelation] Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to CEASE FROM BEFORE US" (Isa. 30:10-11).

What holy man of America would ever prophesy such a things? Prophesy LIES, SMOOTH things, DECEITS? Would America groom such a false prophet and have him address the entire Federal Government and all of her citizens and televise it to the entirety of the world, to have him tell them "All is well with American?" "God bless America?" "We are stronger than ever?" "God is not judging America?" "God did not bring this evil upon us?" "God is not the author of evil?" "Evil in the city is NOT OF THE LORD?"

Most Christians would no more know when a seer or prophet was speaking "lies, deceits and SMOOTH things" to them than they would recognize Satan if he were sitting across the table from them. Well let me give a 21st century example of a seer prophesying deceit, and smooth things.

Hope this Helps, Samson.
                       
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mharrell08

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 01:21:31 PM »

Lately I've read so much from the"ministry" stating God's judgment is being imposed upon the world. This being evidenced by the earthquakes in various places, the worldwide financial crisis,upset weather conditions,etc.  Is Father sending judgment upon the world now? Thought that was the purpose of the Great White Throne judgment?      Has Ray written on this? Any links and/or comments will be appreciated.


Isa 26:9  ...when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Acts 17:31  ...He
[The Father] hath appointed a day, in the which He [The Father] will judge the world in righteousness by that Man [Jesus] whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He [The Father] hath raised Him [Jesus] from the dead.

Email replies from Ray:

 - http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4459.msg34299.html#msg34299

Dear Lisa:  Thank you for your keen eye. I receive numerous statements on a regular basis regarding something I have said previously to something they are presently reading. Sometimes it is an actual error on my part, and sometimes it is just a matter of semantics, different word meanings, translation, etc.
         
        True, we have the statement: "NOW is the judgment of this world..." (John 12:31).
         
        But then we also have: "Because He has appointed a day in the which He WILL JUDGE [future tense, not NOW]  the world..." (Acts 17:31).
         
        A contradictions? No, not really. We first have to understand that there have always been "Judgments" of God throughout the history of mankind. Adam and Eve were judged, then Cain, then Noah's flood, Babel, Israel, Judah, etc.  Unfortunately, translating and interpreting are not easy endeavors.  Frequently the Hebrew or Greek will use but one word that has numerous English equivalents. And contrariwise, frequently the Hebrew or Greek will have numerous words for which the English Language has but one. We have a similar situation in this apparent contradiction.
         
        In John 12:31 we are told that "NOW is the JUDGMENT [Gk: 'krisis'--tribunal, justice, condemnation] of this WORLD [Gk: 'kosmos--orderly arrangement, the world, in a wide or NARROW sense,' Strong's #2889]."
         
        Now Acts 17:31, "Because He has appointed a day in the which He WILL JUDGE [Gk: 'krino--try, condemn, punish'] the WORLD [Gk: 'oikoueme--the land, the GLOBE] in righteousness."
         
        As you can see, both the words for "judge" and "world" are different in both verses. Concordant translates Acts 17:31, "the INHABITED EARTH," as does Rotherham's  Version, "the INHABITABLE EARTH." The Emphatic Diaglott has "judge the INHABITABLE."
         
        After Jesus' statement in John's gospel, it was but a short time that God judged Jerusalem and Palestine by having them utterly destroyed, but this was not the judgment of Acts 17:31 in which the WHOLE INHABITED GLOBE of planet earth will be judged.
        Hope this helps yours understanding.
        God be with you,
        Ray



 - http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4075.msg31195.html#msg31195

Dear Brett:  "Judgment" means "to set things RIGHT." This can be done by acquittal or by sentencing. We, "the house of God" are being judged NOW (I Pet. 4:17). Jesus is our Judge.  We are judged for every word we think, every thing we say, and every deed we do.  There are many physical, social, financial, mental, psychological, and spiritual ways in which this is accomplished.  If God is calling you to be one of His chosen Elect, then what you call "life" IS THAT JUDGMENT.  We are not solely judged for what we do WRONG, but we are judged by being made to live in a world of persecution for doing RIGHT.  But I cannot elaborate on all the ways that this is done in detail. Jesus uses JUDGMENT, THE COUNCIL, GEHENNA FIRE, AND PRISON to Judge His disciples (Matt. 5:21-30). See also Isaiah 26:9.
     
    It will take me nearly a hundred pages to discuss this judging. I am presently doing this in my "HELL" series. Part D-2 will be posted this weekend. There is much information regarding judging in these upcoming Installments. It is far too much to cover in emails, and the more emails I answer, the less time I have to write the answers in my "Lake of Fire" series. Hope you understand.
    God be with you,



 - http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2197.msg17724.html#msg17724

Dear Ed:

    I'm afraid I don't understand your question. What does the fact of God's wrath have to do with His will to save all mankind?  His wrath is His Judgment, and God will SAVE most of humanity through JUDGMENT. Read my series on "The Lake of Fire."  There are two judgments--one on believers NOW; and another on non-believers LATER.  If we are judged now, we will avoid the "wrath to come."

    God be with you,

    Ray



Hope this helps,

Marques
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ARisingSon

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 02:02:41 PM »

Thanks Samson and Marques.  I'll read all you've referenced. 
Guess what perplexes me is; if judgment is corrective and intended to make us Christ minded(this is why judgment has begun on the House of God)then what would be the purpose for Father to send judgment upon the world now if there is no repentance and coming to Christ for a mind transformation? 
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mharrell08

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 02:41:47 PM »

Thanks Samson and Marques.  I'll read all you've referenced. 
Guess what perplexes me is; if judgment is corrective and intended to make us Christ minded(this is why judgment has begun on the House of God)then what would be the purpose for Father to send judgment upon the world now if there is no repentance and coming to Christ for a mind transformation?


The Father is not sending His judgments to the world 'now', only the called and chosen:

1 Pet 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us [believers], what shall the end be of them [unbelievers] that obey not the gospel of God?

If you notice from Acts 17:31 posted above, The Father has appointed a day 'when He will' judge the world, through His Son.

John 5:22  For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

John 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 04:30:22 PM »

Hello ARisingSon

Quote
Is Father sending judgment upon the world now?

No He isn't. His judgment is towards those in the House of God through trials and tribulations being experienced all over the world.

Quote
Thought that was the purpose of the Great White Throne judgment?

You thought correctly. 

i would like to add to Marques point that Father is sending His judgments to His called and chosen.

Quote
….. if judgment is corrective and intended to make us Christ minded ( this is why judgment has begun on the House of God)….

Those in the House of God, the called and chosen, will not all together, be found worthy. Not all will repent.  Few will be found to be worthy at the Day of Judgment of the world, to stand before Christ. Those who are worthy will not be harmed by the second death or Judgment upon the world because they will have already been refined, purged and purified of all wickedness and evil when they were under judgment while they lived in the house of God during their lifetimes. We, here and now, are all in the House of God.

2Ti 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal: "The Lord knew those who are His." And, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity!"
2Ti 2:20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.
2Ti 2:21  Therefore if anyone purges himself from these, he shall be a vessel to honor, sanctified and useful to the Master, prepared for every good work
.

Quote
…..what would be the purpose for Father to send judgment upon the world now if there is no repentance…..

THAT would be the purpose. If there is no repentance, THAT would be the purpose for Father to send judgment upon the world.

When Christ returns there will be little if any remaining faith in the world. We know that Christ returns early for the sake of His Elect to put a stop to the apostasy, evil, lawlessness and love-grown-cold conditions of the world in great woe and travail that the world will have never before experienced and He assures shall never again have to suffer.  A world without repentance NEEDS judgment urgently like a baby needing to be born, and that would be a matter of God’s timing when He sees it is right to return.

When Christ returns, it will not be for the purpose to change anyone’s mind through repentance which continues now upon those He is yielding to His Spirit and conforming to His Image through the goodness of God that causes repentance, change and healing.  When Christ returns to the world He will be returning with a verdict for all who will be judged.

Judgment carries a verdict. The verdict then brings the consequence of acquittal, reward and compensation or correction, chastisement, harsh rebuke with follow up discipline with wrath. So there are two sides to judgment. There are also two types of person that is to receive judgment. Those to whom God has NOT appointed wrath, are those to whom the Judgement of God  on and in the House of God now, who will be found on the Day of Judgment, to be worthy and prepared to every good work as stated in the Scriptures.

Then the good work begins when the judgments of God are in the earth.

Isa 26:8  Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.
Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.



Arc
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 04:58:34 PM by Arcturus »
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ARisingSon

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 05:01:13 PM »

Thanks Marques and Arc.  You've been very helpful. 
   So, if I'm understanding all this, all that I mentioned at the start is not Father's judgment on the world as so many preachers are saying.  So, is it all due to natural causes?  Grace be with you. Earl
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 05:10:07 PM »

Quote
  So, if I'm understanding all this, all that I mentioned at the start is not Father's judgment on the world as so many preachers are saying.  So, is it all due to natural causes?

Judgment on the world as in the White Throne Judgment is when Christ returns with a verdict separating the righteous from the wicked unrepentant. There are no causes that are not caused by God. So "natural causes" are caused by God and yes God causes everything that is happening in nature. Why He causes them according to the false teachings being that He is judging the world, is unscriptural.

Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows. ,
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


The end? End of what....when there is no more repentance in the world when Christ returns and finds the few that have endured to the end, not many, few, THEY will be found worthy and the Judgment upon the world shall not harm them. Their reward will be with Christ when He returns for them.

Arc
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 05:12:16 PM by Arcturus »
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ARisingSon

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Re: Father's Judgment
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 05:43:08 PM »

I'm satisfied.   Thanks everyone.  Grace be with you.  Earl
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