> General Discussions
Deliverance
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on June 30, 2006, 08:20:39 PM ---HARRYFEAT
You don't think the last verse I quoted speaks to a difference in severity of sin?
1JO 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
How do you view this verse?
--- Quote --- My perception is that the OT and all of its laws were meant to keep the Jews in line.
--- End quote ---
"In line"? For what purpose? I had always heard that they were to reveal the need for a savior because they/us could never live up to the law.
GAL 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Sorry I missed the cow joke. ??? Hey you never know here what people believe about some things. ;)
--- Quote ---It is still not clear to me how this definition fits into a category of "sins of the flesh". What do you say they are?
--- End quote ---
This may come off clear as mud...but here goes. I think that all sins which stem from a "lust of the flesh" are sins of the flesh. Whereas all sins that stem from a "lust of the eyes" are a soulish sin. And lastly are sins that stem from the "pride of life" are spiritual sins. It's not that they are "different kinds of sin" as much as they are from different avenues of temptation.
1JO 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Gotta go...Mama wants me to take her to the movies tonight.
--- End quote ---
I will repeat my statement from the last post: If you can find anywhere in the new testament where there is a quote from Christ about gravity then perhaps my pov about the ot laws may need revising. When looking at the topic of sin, I tend to question anything written by the apostles as a carryover from their backgound steeped in Jewish law and ot scripture.
I personally do not believe that there is any real difference in "missing the mark" It doesn't matter how you categorize what that failure is. The sin of one is the sins of all.
Your definition of sins of the flesh contains the word lust. So do you think that a physical act can be a sin or is it just the lust to perform it?
The old testament law "was our schoolmaster" is the key to what I am saying about being designed to keep the Jews in line. It was much like how we treat our toddlers so they learn to live without too much danger in the physical world around them.. Don't touch this, don't do that. and then punish them so they wont do it again. The ot laws emphasized the physical world also, not the spiritual. Don't eat this, don't do that. Being stoned means to us a whole different thing than the actual physical stoning in Leviticus.
I hope that helps you understand what I meant by keeping them in line.
Enjoy the movie
feat
orion77:
--- Quote from: Ward on June 30, 2006, 08:24:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: FREEINDEED on June 21, 2006, 02:18:44 AM ---I was wondering if Homosexuals and Lesbians can be delivered from this Lifestyle or if it's God will for them to live this way?
--- End quote ---
Yes... All "Homosexuals and Lesbians," will be delivered from this Lifestyle. It will happen either during this life time or during the Lake of Fire. It will be brought about via God's Chastening Grace.
In the past I was one of the many that actually thought that "THEY" were evil sinners. I believed that "THEY" had a choice and simply made the wrong one. I actually believed that homosexuality was a sin above sins. What a FOOL I WAS! :-[
Homosexuality is a sin... BUT, I've been given to see that it is no more a sin than any other sin. Yes, it IS a "sexual sin"... :o Just like the lusting (sexual) sin I commited when I looked at many women. Just like when I..... (You get the picture.)
Hmmm.... Where does that put me? No less a sinner... A sexual sinner at that!!! Guilty of 1 = Guilty of ALL. :'(
I began to wonder, "Why do THEY have those desires?" I couldn't imagine having them... But thankfully I can see now...
IF I was born with the same gifts... (Both negative and positive)
IF I was born into the same environment... (Time, parents, siblings, friends, school, etc.)
IF I was in the same situations...
I WOULD BE A HOMOSEXUAL, too. I was created marred, too.
Why do hetrosexuals seem so interested in pointing out the homosexuals' sin?
My belief, at this point, is that hetrosexuals believe that the sin of homosexuality is the ONE sin they can claim the never commited. "Yep... I may have commited every other sin there is, but I didn't do that one. No Siree... Not ME!" So that must make it worse. Right? And of course its my job to point this out to everyone. (Point out those HOMOs so that nobody notices my own sins is more like it.)
Sin is Sin... Thankfully, God's Chastening Grace fits all sizes, shapes, and colors.
Ward
--- End quote ---
Amen to that, Ward.
Don't know what is worse, a homo, a homophobic, or one making fun of them both. ???
We are all sinners and not deserving to what has been given to us. God is truly forgiving, full of mercy and love. We are just a bunch of dumb a-s-s-e-s-s, who can't see the whole purpose.
Judge, judge, judge, never could understand how a sinner can condemn another sinner.
God bless,
Gary
Lightseeker:
WARD
--- Quote --- Why do hetrosexuals seem so interested in pointing out the homosexuals' sin?
My belief, at this point, is that hetrosexuals believe that the sin of homosexuality is the ONE sin they can claim the never commited. "Yep... I may have commited every other sin there is, but I didn't do that one. No Siree... Not ME!" So that must make it worse. Right? And of course its my job to point this out to everyone. (Point out those HOMOs so that nobody notices my own sins is more like it.)
--- End quote ---
I have a question for you. What exactly is 'the sin' of homosexuality? Is it committing a homosexual act? If that is 'the sin' then I must confess that I committed it...have you? I hope no one here thinks I'm judging them as a 'worse sinner', because I truly don't believe that and am not trying to give that impression. I do feel like they are more lost though. Not so lost that the Shepherd won't eventually find them and allow them to willingly bow the knee mind you. But more lost in this age...just like some of us are "saved" to a greater degree in this age...according to scripture. So if some are saved to a greater degree, then I am admittedly as_uming (sic) that some are 'lost' to a greater degree. Is that because of a "sin unto death" in this age only? That's the question I am asking based upon the following scripture. Which no one has addressed yet.
1JO 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
What's your take on this verse Ward?
FEAT
--- Quote ---I will repeat my statement from the last post: If you can find anywhere in the new testament where there is a quote from Christ about gravity then perhaps my pov about the ot laws may need revising. When looking at the topic of sin, I tend to question anything written by the apostles as a carryover from their backgound steeped in Jewish law and ot scripture.
--- End quote ---
You're right...I couldn't find a verse saying 'that' anywhere, from Christ. Couldn't find one with Him telling me to not beat my wife either...dang she's gonna hate getting beat from now on.....I'm sure you see my point. :D I will be honest though and admit that what you're doing with 1 John though, bothers me. My bible says "all scripture is inspired by God". Do you believe you/we hear God better than they did? Are we really devoid of the 'steeping' we've received from 1000 years of Catholicism from the dark ages? How many here are even more than 'just a few years' out, from the 'stain of influence' that truths taught here at BT sets one free from? I truly wonder.
--- Quote ---I personally do not believe that there is any real difference in "missing the mark" It doesn't matter how you categorize what that failure is. The sin of one is the sins of all.
--- End quote ---
I would agree as far as 'life in the hereafter' is concerned, but would not agree as far a' life in this age' though.
--- Quote ---Your definition of sins of the flesh contains the word lust. So do you think that a physical act can be a sin or is it just the lust to perform it?
--- End quote ---
If it was just 'the lust to perform it' then Christ would be a sinner. For scripture says:
HEB 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
--- Quote ---The old testament law "was our schoolmaster" is the key to what I am saying about being designed to keep the Jews in line. It was much like how we treat our toddlers so they learn to live without too much danger in the physical world around them.. Don't touch this, don't do that. and then punish them so they wont do it again. The ot laws emphasized the physical world also, not the spiritual. Don't eat this, don't do that. Being stoned means to us a whole different thing than the actual physical stoning in Leviticus.
--- End quote ---
I guess I feel like I'm still under the law in any area where I'm not submitted to Christ. And if I don't submit to Christ in those areas when convicted by the Spirit...then I will reap the judgment that comes with those areas where I'm still a 'toddler' in my thinking.
Your sure right about 'being stoned' meaning something different. I was a hippie when 'called' of God and given the faith to believe. For years I told guys I spilled more good pot than they'd ever smoked (Viet Nam had its HIGH points).
The movie was good, Mama (my wife) and I both enjoyed it. I also enjoyed the 5 dollar bag of popcorn...what a rip though. :(
FREE
--- Quote ---In the past I was one of the many that actually thought that "THEY" were evil sinners. I believed that "THEY" had a choice and simply made the wrong one. I actually believed that homosexuality was a sin above sins.
--- End quote ---
For the record, I think WE were/are evil sinners. At least I don't know anyone who's made IT yet in overcoming sin totally. I agree with you that they had a CHOICE and made the wrong one. Just like I had a choice after my homosexual sin. I believe that I chose not to do it again. But I'm still not sure about sexual sins not being worse. Not just homosexual sin but all sexual sins. I say that because of the following scripture.
1CO 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Why doesn't it just say FLEE SIN? Why the distinction about 'without/outside the body' versus 'sinning against his own body'. What do you do with this verse.
It's late and I've got an early bike ride with a Baptist bro. Nite all.
Chris R:
Hello light seeker,
There is more than one scripture that commands us not to "beat" a wife or any other human being.
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [It is evil to hit another]...
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
There is nothing in the scriptures that indicates we makes "choices" free and independent from our creator.
It is God that shows mercy upon whom he will show mercy, and hardens whom he will harden.
Homosexuality is no different than any other sin that must be repented of. God willing He will grant unto all repentence.
"We are given repentance" [acts 5:31]
"God Granted repentance" [acts 11:18]
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
All good things come from God, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. [Jer 10:23]
This however is just "temporary" For when thy judgements are in the earth the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.[isa 26:9]
Chris R
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on July 01, 2006, 03:26:48 AM ---
FEAT
--- Quote ---I will repeat my statement from the last post: If you can find anywhere in the new testament where there is a quote from Christ about gravity then perhaps my pov about the ot laws may need revising. When looking at the topic of sin, I tend to question anything written by the apostles as a carryover from their backgound steeped in Jewish law and ot scripture.
--- End quote ---
You're right...I couldn't find a verse saying 'that' anywhere, from Christ. Couldn't find one with Him telling me to not beat my wife either...dang she's gonna hate getting beat from now on.....I'm sure you see my point. :D I will be honest though and admit that what you're doing with 1 John though, bothers me. My bible says "all scripture is inspired by God". Do you believe you/we hear God better than they did? Are we really devoid of the 'steeping' we've received from 1000 years of Catholicism from the dark ages? How many here are even more than 'just a few years' out, from the 'stain of influence' that truths taught here at BT sets one free from? I truly wonder.
--- End quote ---
Hello Lightseeker.
I am not sure what I am "doing to 1John" that bothers you. Going with the thought that all scripture is inspired by God, how do you compare your reaction with regard to sin, to the law and it's administration in Leviticus with 1John. If you say that there is no difference in how you view them in terms of the nature and gravity of what is a sin then I think I understand.
As I said, when it comes to a discussion of sin, I gravitate to Christ's words rather than his apostles. Christ gave us two main commandments to love God and our neighbor as our selves. The understanding is that if we love our neighbor we would not do things that are hurtful to them. This encompasses things like beating your wife, lying , cheating, stealing, adultery, etc. Christ also mentions the ten commandments as examples of ways that we can do harm to others. In my view, the apostles have elaborated on sins and have structured them much like the ot in terms of graviity and onerousness. That's why I said that when it comes to the apostles discussing sin, I tend to question what they are saying in terms of gravity because I think they tend to carry forward an old testament point of view on gravity whereas, I have not seen that in anything quoted from Christ.
I think Chris has done an excellent job of answering your other questions. If I missed a point please respond.
feat
ps I haven't bought popcorn in a theater since then started brining in giant bags of that stale crap instead of popping it fresh on site. Five bucks huh. :o
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version