> General Discussions
Deliverance
buddyjc:
--- Quote from: parsonssc ---
--- Quote from: bobbys43 ---God said he created some to honor and some to dishonor.
I would suggest you read the first couple of chapters of Romans and I think this will answer your question.
bobby
--- End quote ---
I could be way out in left field here, but...
We know that God uses the elect to judge the masses in the next age, do you suppose He uses the masses for judgement on the elect now? :?:
Craig
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Very interesting...
We do everything according to God's purpose, but rarely do anything according to His will. We all go through bad times, and do things we are not proud of, but this enables us to comfort those who go through the same things. The Thessalonians were going through great persecution, and Paul told them to comfort one another.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
Brian
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: parsonssc ---
--- Quote from: bobbys43 ---God said he created some to honor and some to dishonor.
I would suggest you read the first couple of chapters of Romans and I think this will answer your question.
bobby
--- End quote ---
I could be way out in left field here, but...
We know that God uses the elect to judge the masses in the next age, do you suppose He uses the masses for judgement on the elect now? :?:
Craig
--- End quote ---
I have often thought along similar lines. It was not so much judgement that I equate as much as a "trial by fire" kind of relationship. The masses become the temptors to overcome. Who better than someone like yourself to tempt you to fall from the path to the spiritual. How many distractions can fellow humans make?
God took human form to show us the way. We have an example to emulate. We have Christ on one hand and the rest of mankind on the other.
Thanks to Adam and Eve we have knowledge from the tree of good and evil. Christ made man is our living example of how to deal with and use that knowledge.
You can read and debate all the scripture you want but Christ gave us but two commandments.
FREEINDEED WROTE:
..."I was wondering if Homosexuals and Lesbians can be delivered from this Lifestyle or if it's God will for them to live this way?"...
Welcome to the forum. I find it sad but not unusual that your first question to the forum asks about homosexuality. It is a far sadder commentary that religious and governmental leaders are so concerned about gay marriage and feeding the flames of homophobia.
What is there to fear about homosexuals? I don't understand it. True enough it is a lifestyle choice or biological trait that I do not fully understand. However, someone's sex life is not what a person is but just a small part of who they are.
You ask if someone can be delivered from being what God made them. I say yes. We are all to be delivered from what God made us as humans. We will be resurrected to be spiritual entities. Our human fleshy bodily needs and functions will no longer exist.
What about this life. Are homosexuals meantto be a distraction to the elect as Craig suggests. They might be if we become bigots and choose to judge them. I suggest that adulterers, drunkards, liars, thieves and anyone else who actually does things that causes hurt to themselves or another surely are.
Do you know anyone who you consider to be a really nice person. Someone who you would have nothing but positive things to say about. Someone who you would think had a great shot at sainthood?
I know two such people. They happen to be a couple and they happen to both be men. They have taught me a lot about my own fears and insecurities just by seeing their example.
I don't fear them. I don't understand why others do. There is very little likelihood that I will turn into a homosexual just as they say there is very little likelihood that they will turn into heterosexuals. They say that homosexuality was not a choice for them, that God made them or willed them that way. Their question to me was "Who would choose a way of life despised by the majority, subjected to constant physical or verbal abuse?"
I didn't mean to get off on a tangent but I see so much hurt and betrayal caused by adultery where a spouse is deceived and dishonored through that lack of fidelity.
Again, welcome. I hope that you are able to find the truth you seek.
feat
Craig:
--- Quote from: bobbys43 ---Craig you have brought up a good point and I see it this way.
If the elect are being judged by the masses we know that this is not righteous judgment.
God is THE righteous judge.
bobby
--- End quote ---
Bobby, I didn't mean the elect are being judged by the masses. I meant that God is using the masses to judge the elect.
Clear as mud :?: :D
Craig
Lightseeker:
--- Quote from: bobbys43 ---God said he created some to honor and some to dishonor.
I would suggest you read the first couple of chapters of Romans and I think this will answer your question.
bobby
--- End quote ---
Could you be more specific in your verse references? As I look at Romans I don't know if God created them that way or not. Look at the following verse.
ROM 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
This verse indicates that they 'knew God' before. And I'm wondering if it was because they refused to change, after coming to know Him, that they were not giving glory to God. In essence, after being spiritually reborn and spirit saved, they were refusing His progressive salvation of Christ's life into their "Christian" life walk. They then 'became vain' and their enlightened hearts became 'darkened'.
I don't think "glorifying God" means sitting around singing 'glory, glory, glory' either. I think that glory, from man to God, is always associated with a lifestyle change that 'manifests/reveals/glorifies the light' of the life of Christ within. If we say "Yes! Yes!" but walk with the devil, then we are glorifying/manifesting/revealing the devil's life in us (which is really death).
As I read Romans 1, I see several other verses which indicate that it is talking about believers who have accepted the salvation of their spirits by receiving Jesus as savior, but they are not working out the salvation of their walk on earth by making the life changes prompted by making Him Lord when convicted by the Spirit, as to sin in their life. They are basically backslidden unto the point of being the "pig in its wallow" and the "dog eating his vomit." Thoughts?
Harryfeat
I like your "trial by fire" POV. I've often said that I believe in this age, those who are not going to be called are here for that very reason of trying and testing the character of Christ into, or out of, us.
--- Quote ---
What is there to fear about homosexuals? I don't understand it. True enough it is a lifestyle choice or biological trait that I do not fully understand. However, someone's sex life is not what a person is but just a small part of who they are.
--- End quote ---
Harry, I totally agree with not fearing homos, and honestly feel like that term is really to invoke a "woe is us because of paranoid crazy religious nuts" attitude for the homosexual community/agenda. Maybe that's because of my locality and local POV. Do you feel that sexual sins appear to have a greater 'gravity?' in God's eyes, and therefore in scripture, than other sins?
--- Quote ---Do you know anyone who you consider to be a really nice person. Someone who you would have nothing but positive things to say about. Someone who you would think had a great shot at sainthood?
I know two such people. They happen to be a couple and they happen to both be men. They have taught me a lot about my own fears and insecurities just by seeing their example.
--- End quote ---
Let me first say this, I believe one can be a homosexual and still enter into life in the hereafter. But I am curious, are these two, professing Christianity? Do they look at their 'lifestyles' as being 'approved by God'...or as sin which they struggle with?
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker ---
Harry, I totally agree with not fearing homos, and honestly feel like that term is really to invoke a "woe is us because of paranoid crazy religious nuts" attitude for the homosexual community/agenda. Maybe that's because of my locality and local POV. Do you feel that sexual sins appear to have a greater 'gravity?' in God's eyes, and therefore in scripture, than other sins?
--- Quote ---Do you know anyone who you consider to be a really nice person. Someone who you would have nothing but positive things to say about. Someone who you would think had a great shot at sainthood?
I know two such people. They happen to be a couple and they happen to both be men. They have taught me a lot about my own fears and insecurities just by seeing their example.
--- End quote ---
Let me first say this, I believe one can be a homosexual and still enter into life in the hereafter. But I am curious, are these two, professing Christianity? Do they look at their 'lifestyles' as being 'approved by God'...or as sin which they struggle with?
--- End quote ---
Hello Dee,
The easy answer to your first question about greater gravity is no, absolutely not. [Isaac Newton notwithstanding] I believe that the gravity of sexual sin was an outgrowth of the old testament where the laws were meant to keep the children in line. However, what is your definition of sexual sin? I have a somewhat qwerky view. I don't believe that there are such things as sins of the flesh. If there were, homosexual cattle would be going straight to hell :shock: [j/k]
I believe that sins are commited long before there has been any physical result from our thoughts. We are little different from other animals in our physical needs. It is my belief that it is our spiritual side that distinguishes us and where we commit sin. What is your definition of sin?
The answer to your second question about whether my friends are christian or not is simply irrelevant to their "salvation". The fact is I never asked them about their religious persuasion.
However, they have told me that they find nowhere in scripture where Christ is quoted as saying that any consensual sex act other than adultery as a sin. They also stated that the ten commandments do not refer to any consensual sex prohibitions other than adultery. Their emphasis was always on the word consensual.
This is their response to the question you ask.
I hope that helps assuage your curiosity.
feat
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