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Mobile Conference 2009 - all audios
Kat:
He (Buzzard) does admit something here that is rather interesting. He says "Jesus, not God, is the alpha and omega, who died" (Rev. 1:08). So He is the alpha and omega, Jesus not God... I’m going to hold him to that. When you teach something, you’d better stand by it, especially if it’s heresy.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Some say, ‘that’s God the Father.’ “I am the Alpha and Omega,“ Jesus, not God is the alpha and omega. Who is the Almighty? The Alpha and Omega. Who is that? Jesus Christ - “the Almighty.”
Pantokrator is the Almighty G3841 Strong’s Concordance: pantokratōr - the all ruling, that is GOD (as absolute universal sovereign): ALMIGHTY, OMNIPOTENT. That is the definition of God in every way.
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Forty eight times, Shaddei is used of God, not of men. The Almighty God, is this God the Father? No. It says, “appeared” that is he could see Him.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
John 5:37 Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.
Is Christ a liar? Is the Bible a liar? He “appeared unto Abraham, and said unto him”…“Said.” Doesn’t that take a voice? Neither seen His form (or) heard His voice.
Well, who is this God that speaks? Well who is the Spokesman? Who is the “Word of God”?
Mr. Buzzard would have you believe that John didn’t have all his marbles together when he wrote his version of the gospel. Who knows, Paul could have gone into the area of heresy a little bit. He (Buzzard) says, ‘we only read these things in John’s account.’ Oh, is that all? Well, you can’t believe anything that John says. Come on. He “APPEARED” and He “SAID.” Genesis 3 When God is talking to Adam and Eve where He calls to them in the garden.
Gen. 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God…
Well, did they or didn’t they? Was it the voice of God the Father? What did Christ say? Now if somebody can show me where all of these scriptures I have given you are mistranslated, you just hop in here any time you want.
John 5:37 And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of Me (this is Jesus Christ speaking),Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.
Do you believe it or do you despise the Word of God? Do we understand every word of the bible? No, but are we not understanding all of it? No, I don’t think so either, there’s a lot we understand. Is this verse pretty clear? Does this verse say ‘many people have heard the voice of God and have seen Him in many in divers times‘? Does it say that? No. Does it say they never have? YES. What are you going to believe? The Almighty APPEARED unto Abram, and SPOKE… Pay attention to the words and you’ll find wisdom and knowledge and truth and understanding all over the place… just pay attention to the words. Let’s go back to the first chapter of John again.
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son…
You know I’m going to belabor this, but there are any number of translations including Rotherham, the NIV, Becks, New Revised Standard Version, The Concordant Literal New Testament… they translate that “the only begotten God.”
v. 18 …the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father…
So, many old manuscripts have that. But that’s not what I want to emphasis here, but I did want you to know that.
v. 18 …He has declared Him.
WHAT? “He has declared Him.“ What do you mean, “He has declared Him”? The Greek is ‘to unfold,‘ like the turning of a page, to unfold knowledge from a book or something... opening the scroll, your learn more and more.
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son (God), which is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared (or revealed) Him.
How can you say that? The Bible is full of revelations of God the Father, talking to humanity, right? It’s full of it? Nope. “No man has heard God’s voice at any time.“ Jesus Christ said so on two, three, four occasions. Well, who did they hear? Who is the spokesman for God? Jesus Christ. I know that Mr Buzzard has a big problem with the first couple of verses.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Or the proper order is, “and God was the Word.”
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Now he (Buzzard) says, ‘that was the Father.’ Well you know what we did with the (previous emailer‘s) twenty four hours? “Are there not twelve hours in (24 hours)…” (John 11:9). Doesn’t make sense, does it?
John 1:1 In the beginning was God the Father, and God the Father was with God the Father, and God the Father was God the Father.
v. 2 God the Father was in the beginning with God the Father.
Does that really make sense? Can you really say “the Word” is God the Father? Does that make any sense at all? Who is the Word of God? [Attendees: Jesus Christ] What’s the proof of that? Do we have proofs that He is the Word of God? Is there some place where we are told that Jesus Christ is the Word of God? [Attendees: John 1:14]
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Yes, that does prove that whatever this Word was, was made flesh and dwelt among us. But they still argue that it is not Jesus Christ, because it says the Word was God and they say Jesus Christ is not God. But we do have a verse that plainly tells us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
Revelation 19:11-12 And I saw heaven opened (this is the coming of Christ), and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon Him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
This is speaking of Jesus Christ. This is the coming of Christ and “His eyes were as a flame of fire,” and so on.
v. 13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.
Here is the name of Jesus Christ, “The Word of God.” He is the Logos, the spokesman… that’s what “logos” means, the Word, the spoken word, the spokesman.
So let’s be scriptural, when it said, “and God said, let there be light,” who did the saying? Nobody’s ever heard God’s voice. This is the voice of Jesus. Jesus was more than your Rock Opera ‘Jesus Christ Superstar.’ He’s not just a man. You’ll see later just how important it is that He was a lot more than ‘just a man.’
So He is the Word of God, it says so. His name is “the Word of God,” that’s Jesus Christ’s name, the Word of God. He was “WITH” God. You can’t be with yourself, you’ve got to be with something, somebody else.
John 6:46 Not that any man has seen the Father, save He which is of God, He has seen the Father.
Who’s that? Jesus Christ, He has seen the Father... When He said to pray “our Father, which art IN HEAVEN” (Matthew 6:9).
Where was Jesus Christ born? [On the earth, Bethlehem.] He was born on the earth. After He was crucified, and the girls were holding Him by His feet and wouldn’t let Him go.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
He said don’t touch Me, don’t keep holding onto Me, I have not yet gone to My Father in heaven. So, between the time He was born ‘just a man’ and died and was resurrected as ‘just a man,’ when did He see the Father? If Jesus Christ first came into existence as a human being, born in Bethlehem… He never was in heaven. He says no man has ever seen the Father, save He which is of God, He has seen the Father, He is speaking of Himself. In other words Christ saw the Father…
John 5:19 …but what He sees the Father do: for what things soever He does, these also does the Son likewise.
When did He see the Father do anything? He was never in heaven supposedly, if He was ‘just a man.’
I can take each one of these and work up an hour’s study on each one of these little ideas and no matter where it goes, it’s going to prove what Jesus Christ is. It is never going to come out as, ‘ooops, that’s right, He was just a man.’ It won’t.
So many times we are told that people heard the voice of God… God spoke to them. He talked to Adam and Eve, but never was it God the Father. Why? Nobody ever heard His voice, Jesus Christ said so. The Bible is not a liar, Jesus Christ is not a liar. What are you going to do with those verses? Jesus Christ said, “no man has ever heard the Father’s voice.” They then turn around and say, ‘here’s twenty five times where they heard the Father’s voice.’ That doesn’t fit. Something is wrong.
[Attendee: Regarding the voice to Moses, wasn‘t that a voice?] Yes, sometimes there was a voice, but not every time, I mean, when Jesus Christ was baptized, it says, “a voice came out of heaven, this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:17). It doesn’t say it was God the Father, it was “a voice” verifying the feelings of the Father.
[Attendee: It tells you right there in Exodus 3:2 it was an angel that spoke to Moses at the time of the burning bush.] Surely. [It also says in Acts 7:35, 38, 53; that it was an angel that spoke to Moses, not God.] There may have well been an angel, but that doesn’t mean that there wasn’t God involved. [But it says there specifically that an angel spoke to Moses.] Right, and angels came to visit Abraham too. But that doesn’t mean that God never spoke to Abraham. I mean you can have something that is in addition. I know that angels have spoken in behalf of God, but you can’t say every time.
Genesis 3:10 And he said, I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
v. 11 And He said, Who told thee that you was naked?
Is this God speaking or an angel? Because, if God the Father does speak to people, then we have hundreds and thousands of false statements in the scripture… because we’ve got many, many statements talking about what God said and so on.
[Attendee: comment?] That’s a good point Art, you bring up that angels were doing some of this passing on of information and the Ten Commandments and so on. But it tells us that. It tells us that they were angels and we know that. But it doesn’t tell us every single time that every time God speaks. In the Old Testament it’s not God at all, it’s an angel, just pretending to be God.
[attendee: You said this morning that this is a principle that’s laid down here in Exodus 2 and 3 and if you learn that principle. Then you can understand that God, when He gave the commandments, did it through an angel. It tells you that right here in Acts chapter 7 in the testimony of Stephen…] But can you say it was all done through an angel and through an angel only, that God had nothing to do with it. That God didn’t speak a word, it was all done through an angel. Some portion of it was done through angels for sure.
Let’s look at this… where Moses wanted to see God.
Exodus 33:12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, You say unto me, Bring up this people: and You have not let me know whom You will send with me. Yet You have said, I know you by name, and you have also found grace in My sight.
Did Moses say, did I find grace in this angel’s eyes? Is this an angel?
v.14 And He said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
v. 17 And the LORD (Is this an angel? Then Lord, Jehovah, Yhovah) said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that you have spoken: for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.
v. 18 And he said, I beseech You, show me Your glory.
v. 19 And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
v. 20 And He said, you canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.
v. 21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shalt stand upon a rock:
v. 22 And it shall come to pass, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by:
v. 23 And I will take away Mine hand, and you shalt see My back parts: but My face shall not be seen.
Are we talking about an angel? That if he saw the backside of an angel or the face of an angel that it would kill him? I don’t think so. This is the “Lord.” But it’s NOT God the Father.
[Attendee: To back that up, 1 Corinthians 15:47, the first man is of the earth, made of dust, the second man is the Lord from heaven.] Yeah, another good point. Where is He from? From heaven. I meditated on that for a good while… I’ve spent a couple of hundred hours on this already.
Kat:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/ISJESUSGODPT2.mp3
Audio 6
IS JESUS GOD?
Okay let’s say that my parents are German, they move to America, then married and conceive me and I’m born. Can I legitimately say, I am from Germany? No I can’t, I can say my parents are from Germany, but I can not say I am from Germany, I was not born in Germany.
1Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
So If Jesus Christ was never from heaven or in heaven, how can He be “from heaven”? That’s a good point and I’ve thought about that. There’s more to that and we will caught up with that a little later. I’m not done with this subject yet, I will probably write a paper on it, because I consider it fairly important.
Concordant Literal Version
Php 2:6 Who, being inherently in the form of God, (What, “Inherently in the form of God”?) deems it not pillaging to be equal with God,
v. 7 nevertheless empties Himself, taking the form of a slave, coming to be in the likeness of humanity,
American Standard Version
Php 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
Notice it, this is not a normal person being born. He is first “emptied” of something He had. You can’t empty something that isn’t something. You can’t empty a bucket that has nothing in it. He “emptied Himself,” God did not force it upon Him. Again, I said all thorough the Scriptures that you are going to see He volunteered. He “emptied Himself” and was “made Him for a little while (Thirty three years) lower than the angels,” (Heb. 2:7 NASB) so that He can die.
If He were just a man, just a normal human being, then He didn’t have to be made anything, He would naturally die or if they stuck a spear in His side, for sure He would die. But no, Jesus had to be “made” that low or He couldn’t die.
So this idea that God couldn’t die… no, not unless some drastic change takes place in Him. He had to “empty Himself” of those powers that would never allow Him to die. He could voluntarily give them up “for a little while.”
Rotherham
Php 2:7 But, Himself, emptied, taking, a servant’s form, coming to be, in men’s likeness;
Young’s Literal Translation
Php 2:7 but did empty Himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
Emphatic Diaglott
Php 2:7 but divested Himself of it, and taking a Bondman’s form, having been made in the likeness of men.
People who are born aren’t “divested,” they aren’t “emptied,” they aren’t “made” and they don’t do anything by themselves.
“Nevertheless empties Himself”…“but emptied Himself”…“But, Himself, emptied”…“but did empty Himself”…“but divested Himself”…
What unborn baby ever did anything by himself? Do you see what I’m saying? I don’t care where you take this, anywhere you go Jesus Christ is not ‘just a man.’ He’s not. Let’s continue.
Emphatic Diaglott - “but divested Himself.” Divested means to strip, as of clothing; to deprive, as of rights; to free of; to rid of; to divest - deprive of a TITLE, or right.
Did Christ have a title? He gave it up for a little while, so He could die, that’s part of this emptying, this divesting… to “deprive of a title or a right.”
(Notes)
If Jesus were ‘just a man’ why did He need to be conceived by the Holy Spirit of God at all? Why couldn’t He be JUST a normal Jewish boy born to a normal Jewish mother AND FATHER? Why? Why did He need to be more than ‘just a man?’ Why did He need to be a SPECIAL DIVINE MAN?
If Jesus Christ were nothing but a human being He did not have to be conceived by God, He did not have to empty Himself, He did not have to be made lower than an angel so He could die. All men die. Just pay attention to the words.
Mr. Buzzard has a footnote on page 191 where he makes a comment from a dictionary about Revelation 3:14 where it says Jesus Christ is “the beginning of the creation of God.” Concordant translats it “God's Creative Original." Now that is a profound Scripture, I mean that’s one of those really profound Scripture. That is not a false translation or anything.
Rev 3:14 …write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Jesus Christ the “beginning of the creation of God.” He is “the beginning.”
Col 1:16 for in Him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through Him, and unto Him;
He is the beginning and the beginner, all things were created through Him. Now that deserves about ten pages. This book of his that I have is about 460 pages, it could have been written in about 60-70 pages. I mean talk about repeating, repeating and repeating, it’s so redundant that it’s pitiful. But he spends paragraphs, dozens and dozens of pages on redundant things and some of them are not even Scriptural.
Now we have a Scripture that talks about Jesus Christ being the original beginning creation of God and do you know how he takes care of that? Do you think he spends five or ten pages explaining how that doesn’t mean that He was in the beginning even? He’s the beginning of God’s creation, He’s the beginner of God’s creation… but He says He wasn’t in the beginning. Do you know how he takes care of that? Was there ten pages of explanation going through that, showing us that this has nothing to do with Christ being anything more than just a human being… I’ll tell you how he takes care of that, in a footnote. My mind doesn’t work like everybody else’s mind. He takes care of that and wipes it out in a FOOTNOTE!
He talks about a quote here in Revelation 3:14 then he’s got an asterisk, so you look down below and he’s got ‘Dictionary of Apostolic Church’ and that says something to the effect; that some think that this is speaking that Christ was the original creation of His Father, that’s it! One of the most profound Scriptures in the whole Bible and he wipes it out with a footnote! Now I get angry when I see stuff like that.
Now I’ve just read you all these translations where Christ “emptied Himself,” “divested Himself,” He was “made lower.” He came down… from up there, He came down, He was from heaven. The second Adam is from heaven (1Cor. 15:47).
Php 2:7 nevertheless empties Himself, taking the form of a slave, coming to be in the likeness of humanity (CLV)
He emptied Himself and there is a Scripture that says that in Philippians and how does he handle that? Does he spend ten or twenty pages on such an incredible verse as that and try to explain that away? How do you think he handles that very profound and marvelous Scripture, how does he handle it? With ANOTHER FOOTNOTE!
So the fact that Jesus Christ was the beginning of God’s creation, emptied Himself to become lower than an angel so that He could die. ALL that and that deserves is two lousy footnotes? Now I’m not angry with Mr. Buzzard, but his theology stinks.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You:
v. 2 As You have given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal (eonian) life to as many as You have given Him.
v. 3 And this is life eternal (eonian), that they might know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
v. 4 I have glorified You on the earth: I have finished the work which You gave Me to do.
v. 5 And now, O Father, glorify You Me with Your own self with the glory which I HAD with You before the world was.
Now you know what Mr. Buzzard does with that… ‘Oh that just means that God had it in His mind to glorify His Son thousands of years later when He did come.’ He says, ‘he had it in His mind to do that.’ Why would you say that? That’s not what the Scriptures says, so why would you say that? Because they despises these Scriptures, because these Scriptures do not agree with their heresy. There is no bad translation there. Read a hundred translations, they all say the same thing, “glorify You Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
“Father, I will that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me: for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24) Oh but only in His minds eye, because He didn’t even exist, He loved Him, but He didn’t even exist. Do you see the problems you run into when you refuse to believe the word of God. You can’t do anything with that verse. He (Jesus) said, Lord now I have done the work, I did what You sent Me here to do. He commissioned Jesus Christ to go to earth and become the Savior of the world… He did it. Now He said it is finished, I’ve done it, now please give Me back the glory I had with You from the beginning of the world. You try to put that is with, He never had any glory with God before the foundation of the earth, He never had any, it’s a lie.
What makes this book so bad is he’s really doing two things; 1) he is exposing this unscriptural heresy of the trinity and that true, it needs to be exposed. But along with it he is, 2) demeaning our own Savior and that’s not to be done.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and him that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.
v. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.
Now what are you going to do with that Scripture? Jesus Christ said, “I came down from heaven.” How can you come down from heaven if you were never there?
Me and my friend had a little tat, because I said something like Christ was going to go ‘back’ to heaven and he rightly said, the Bible doesn’t say went back. There is no word ‘back,’ it doesn’t say He went back. No but it doesn’t have to say ‘back.’ There are other ways of saying ‘going back’ without using the word back. Let me give you an example.
I went to Pennsylvania for my fiftieth class reunion a month ago and then I returned home. Now if that is all of the information that I gave you, you would still know or you should know that I went back, even though I didn’t say it, right? How would you know I went back? How would you know that wasn’t the first time I went to Pennsylvania? Well it’s for a class reunion, I would hardly graduate from high school in Ohio and go back to my reunion in Pennsylvania? So you don’t have to say you went back, but the truth of the matter is that I did go back, you see? But just because you don’t say you ‘went back’ is not proof that that’s not where I came from. I could say I went to Pennsylvania and that’s true, that is a true statement. But that doesn’t contradict the fact that I also came from Pennsylvania and therefore when I went to Pennsylvania I was going ‘back’ to Pennsylvania. Okay keep that in mind.
So Jesus Christ said, “I came down from heaven, to do the will of Him that sent Me,” and there’s another phrase He “sent Me,” from where? From heaven!
Now we are going to get more specific, so we won’t quabble about these words ‘went back.’
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
So He’s talking about He’s the “bread of life,” then He says, “Doth this offend you?” (verse 61).
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven:
How many of those verses do you need before you will believe them. Where did Jesus Christ come from? Heaven! Where between His human birth and His crucifixion did He ever go to heaven and come back? Where? “I am the living bread which came DOWN FROM HEAVEN.”
John 6:57 As the living Father has sent Me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats Me, even he shall live by Me.
V. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven:
John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before?
He came from heaven, you can’t get around it. Jesus Christ came from heaven and He came emptied and was impregnated in a woman through the Spirit of God and took on flesh and was lowered to that, below an angel even. So that He could die. This is NOT your everyday Jewish boy. “I am the living bread which came down from heaven:” I mean how many Scriptures do you want until you believe it?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
How clear is that? Where did He come from? “Down from heaven… even the Son of man.” You see this phrase “even the Son of man which is in heaven” it is not in the manuscripts. That’s a slur that came from a margin somewhere, that is not in the Greek manuscript. It should read;
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man.
So where did Christ come from? Heaven. Is He going ‘back’ to heaven? Yes He is, He is going back to heaven.
Emphatic Diaglott
John 3:13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except the Son of man who descended from heaven.
See they didn’t put that ‘which is in heaven,’ that is not part of the Scriptures.
You can’t come up with some stupid theory about how it was the ‘sperm’ of God that came down from heaven. That’s not Jesus, sperm is not Jesus, besides there is not any suggestion that Jesus Christ was conceived by a spiritual sperm. He was miraculously conceived, it doesn’t say it had to be a sperm. I mean God could have conceived Christ as a child any way He wanted to in the mother’s womb, but it did not necessarily have to be a sperm, I mean He’s already a miracle for crying out loud. But they say, ‘yea but it can only be done through a physical sperm.’ I don’t think so.
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: He that cometh from heaven is above all.
How many Scriptures do you want? Who came down from heaven? Jesus did.
John 3:32 And what He hath seen and heard, that He testifies…
John 3:34 For He whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto Him.
I mean you can not even fathom how much you can learn from God’s Word if you’ll do one thing… pay attention to all the words. I mean you heard these Scriptures all your life. I like this one.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.
v. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions (offices or abodes): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
v. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
What can we learn form there? Is there anything there? “Come again.” Did you catch that? “I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again.” The Greek word is palin - through the idea of oscillatory repetition (happening again and again and again), (adverbially) anew, that is, (of place) back, (of time) once more, again.
That’s what that word ‘again’ means in the Greek. You can’t come back to the earth from heaven ‘again,’ unless you did it before. Am I going too fast? It’s possible for Christ to go to heaven and return, but it’s not possible for Him to say I’m going to do it again, if He never came from heaven in the first place.
Now the word ‘palin’ appears in the Greek Scriptures 147 times. I checked all 147 verses and with no exceptions palin is always translated ‘again.’ Once more, a repetition.
I AM
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Moses said, who shall I say sent me, “I AM.” Now in the King James they have “I am He,” what kind of nonsense is that? Before Abraham was “I am He?” I mean He what, what do you mean “I am He”?
When they went out into the garden after the ‘last supper’ they were looking for Jesus and Jesus saw this band of merry men… with their clubs and stuff.
Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs?
Then He asked them, “Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth” and He said, I’m Jesus of Nazareth and then they all fell down like dead. What?
John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon Him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
v. 5 They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said unto them, I am He. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them.
v. 6 As soon then as He had said unto them, I am He, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Think about it! Pay attention to all the words. If they were looking for Jesus and He said “I am Him” or “I am He,” why would they fall down like they were dead and terrified? That’s who they were looking for, He said ‘yea that’s Me’ and then they said ,oh my gosh and they fall over like dead? These aren’t believers that were falling over in reverence and worship, these were people that came out to kill Him! Do you think that’s what He said? ‘That’s Me’? Why did they fall over like they were dead? He must have said that with some kind of earth shaking authority, He didn’t just say ‘that’s Me’ or “I am Him” or “I am He.” He said “I AM!” They knew what that meant, they read their Scriptures. They didn’t need any other reason, that’s why they fell down like dead men.
PRAY FOR UNDERSTANDING
I pray for God to give me understanding. When I read the Bible or I’m studying somebody’s book or article, I’m not doing it for my health. I want to know! Since I’m a teacher, I have to know how to teach. Now I can’t teach something if I don’t believe it or I don’t know what I’m talking about. I want to know. I beg God to show me, show me what this means. If this man is right, show me, let me see it and if he’s not let me see that. I want to know the truth.
I don’t have any ego to protect. I was suppose to be dead a year ago of cancer. What kind of ego do you think I’m trying to protect. What, I’ve got some great ego I’m trying to protect? I’m a dead man… I want the truth. I’m not afraid to admit it if I’m wrong. Why would I be afraid to admit it if I’m wrong? I’ve been wrong about lots of things. But since I’ve been writing for Bible Truths I’ve not made any big mistakes that I know of, none. No big mistakes, no giants doctrinal flaws, not that I know of, I don‘t know of any. Little things, but nothing really big. So I have no axe to grind.
EMPITIED HIMSELF SO HE COULD DIE
But I’m at the place where I firmly believe Jesus Christ was not just a man or an ordinary man or totally a physical biological man with nothing divine about Him whatsoever? I don’t believe that.
I believe in my heart of hearts that our Creator Himself died for us. Not God the Father, our Creator. Think about that tonight.
If you were God and you made humanity or you made it through somebody else, like His Son Jesus and He wants the people to understand the severity of sin and evil. So He makes a regulation that if you sin the penalty for that is death, okay. Well now He’s going to make a way that, although we still die, we will not die forever. We will be resurrected back to life and eventually all humanity will be changed into spirit, with spiritual bodies and live in harmony and order for all eternity.
So now you need a way to justify the fact that you are going to have mercy on this humanity and let them live after all, but not without a great sacrifice. So does He say, ‘let me see how will I do this, I’m not going to get My hands dirty, Jesus, guess what… You are the honored chosen one, I’m going to kill you for the people… what do You think of that? You do it.’ Think about it. It doesn’t quite seem fair some how, does it? Couldn’t God have come up with some better plan, where maybe nobody had to die, you know?
But it was determined Jesus Christ was going to die for His creation. But it certainly was not forced upon Him, I’ve told you time and again He volunteered. He emptied Himself of His power and glory, divinity and majesty. He emptied Himself to be made for a little while, thirty three years, lower than an angel so He could die.
I believe that with the wisdom of Their minds, that there was no conceivable act that would prove to humanity, any possible greater love that God has for His creatures, then to die for them. He DIED for them!
Did He have to die? No. Well why did He die? Is there some demonic force out there, some Dark Vader that said, ‘well now some bodies got to die Lord, I want to see a sacrifice and I want to see some blood here.’ Who made that rule? God did. He makes the rules, He can break the rules. That’s the golden rule, him that’s got the gold makes the rules. God owns all the gold.
So there’s something special, what seems foolishness to the world… ‘you’re going to hang on a cross and that saves humanity, how so?’ Because He is the creator of humanity, He volunteered, He said I will die for My own creation. In that sense it was Christ’s creation, He created it.
It just doesn’t make any sense at all that some Jewish boy could grow up and become the Savior of the world and there is nothing special about Him, no. He’s just another man, then why is His life worth that of fifty billion other human beings? But, now the life of the Creator, now we are talking something, we’re talking heavy duty stuff here big time. I think if you meditate on that for some time like I have, you begin to realize just what an incredible sacrifice that was.
It didn’t have to be, it was a volunteered thing. Christ said, “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13). But that is usually under a situation where He has to lay down his life or his friend will die. Soldier will sometimes throw themselves on a hand grenade and let it blow up their own body. That happened just a few weeks ago, where a man jumped on a grenade and let it blow his guts out to save the men around him.
But with Jesus He didn’t have to die. I mean God can save humanity without anybody having to die on the cross to do it. Why did He do it? To show us how much He loves us! I mean when there is no real compunction that something needs to be done and you volunteer to do it, just because you want to prove to somebody your love… I mean that is pretty profound.
So this can not be accomplished with just some ordinary man. But He had to suffer like a man, so that nobody could ever say, ‘well yea God, You were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, you wouldn’t know a hard days work know how. You just say let it be and it is. I have to work my fingers off and sweat and break my finger nails and cut myself. What does God know about a hard days work? Nothing.’
I talked about that last year. This is an amazing thing that God did, I mean He had it all planned out. Imagine that, the greatest creation in the universe His only begotten Son and He’s going to sacrifice Him! It wasn’t a matter of, ‘you do it Lord, I don’t want to do it, you do it.’ Any parent knows that if their child is put in a situation where they are going to be hurt or tortured, the parent would much sooner trade places than to see that child tortured to die.
So you think that there was, you know, no skin off the Father’s nose, so to speak, over this? He emphasizes, His ONLY begotten Son. Notice He doesn’t say Mary’s only begotten Son… His! God said that Boy was His, that was His boy, He was special. He was God’s boy.
Kat:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/THEGODFAMILYPT1.mp3
Audio 7
The God Family
(Part 1)
I want to spend a little time on whether Jesus Christ is divine or not. Understand, when we talk about is Jesus divine or is Jesus God, we’re not talking, is He the eternal heavenly Father. We’re not saying that.
Now, there’s something you have to understand. Andrew Buzzard apparently (I’m not going to say he absolutely doesn’t), but apparently does not understand. The reason I can say that is I read certain statements that he makes over and over, regarding the fact that God is one. If Jesus can be called God, then we have two Gods. To him it’s very simple, God the Father is the one true God and if Jesus is God, then we’ve got two true Gods... the Bible says, “God is one.”
Now, that’s simple enough, right? But here is where you get into areas that require a little bit more than just the simplicity of a child, you know. Because that sounds good on the surface. Now if you don’t have a little bit of depth of understanding and wisdom that will throw you and you’ll say, ‘Yeah, that’s right.’ Now he makes a lot of good points about the trinity, in fact this book is called ‘Jesus was not a Trinitarian.’ Of course He wasn’t.
The trinity theory is that God is not just God the Father; God consists of God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son. That, according to Christendom, is what God is. So, they’re all God, separately and individually. You say, ‘how can you understand that?’ You really can’t. Well does the scripture teach that? Almost all theologians will flat out tell you, ‘No, the scriptures don’t teach that.’ Well, why do they teach it then? They say, ‘Well, you can deduce that.’ They deduce that that’s what it has to be. Then they give you an analogy that proves that it is possible. They say, ‘look at an egg, you have the shell, the yolk and the white… there you go, the trinity.’ Or water, ‘you have water, steam and ice… ha, the trinity.’
What do such arguments prove? It proves the stupidity of those that are trying to convince you of something. Now c’mon, but it has nothing to do with anything, that an egg has three components… that’s nonsense.
So, he rightly shows that nowhere is the Holy Spirit called a person. He takes great exception to this idea that God consists of three persons. He really berates that, that God is three persons, the Trinity teaching that God is three persons, one essence, three persons. Most of his proofs about the trinity are correct. There’s a problem though, when we wipes out the false teaching of the trinity, he also throws away the glory and dignity and divinity of Jesus Christ. That is not scriptural.
So, I am going to defend the divinity of Jesus Christ with the scriptures. If some of you say, ‘well, I don’t agree , I don’t believe that.‘ I know a lot of scriptures and unless you can explain every one of them away somehow, I’ll always have an issue with this.
First of all, if there are scriptures that indicate that Jesus is God and that Jesus lived with God before He ever came in human form… we have numbers of scriptures like that. Then that’s a positive on the side that Jesus did not come into existence as a human being through the birth by Mary, but that He was changed from something He was into humanity. So we have quite a number of scriptures that back that up. But do we have any scriptures that flat out tell us that Jesus Christ is not divine, never was divine, never will be divine? No.
Now we do have scriptures that say He’s a man. Of course He’s a man. God made Him a man “a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death” (Hebrews 2:9). Mr. Buzzard, who is the author, speaks about the ‘Shema.’ How many know what that is? The Shema is Deuteronomy 6:4, which says.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear (H8085 Gk. Shema), O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
That is a basic tenet of the Jewish religion. That the Lord is one, that God is one. One what? One God - one Lord - one.
The premise of Mr. Buzzard in this book is to show that God is one ‘person,’ not a multitude, not two, not a trinity, not three or four, but one person. So I am going to read a couple things to you, what he talks about.
Jesus Was Not A Trinitarian - by Anthony Buzzard
What did Jesus Christ teach? Did He teach the trinity or did He teach that God is one person? There is profound difference between a one-person God and three-person God. If God is one person God is a single divine person.
Comment from Ray: You understand the premise I’m making now? Based on the Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4. God is one… one God… one Lord.
The Shema proclaims that God is one person, this really settles the whole issue we are discussing.
Comment from Ray: Do you understand? Are you following this? (He says) this settles the whole issue we are discussing… whether Jesus is God or whether He is divine.
Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel…”
The Shema (he says) proclaims that God is one person, that really settles the whole issue we are discussing.
(Half way down the page, he says) God is a single person…
(The next page) God is a single person…
(Through the pages of his book we find) He is a single person… The true God… He is a person… God is a single person…The Jews knew that God is a single person… God is a single, undivided, divine person… The one divine person who alone is God…. Is God speaking here, a person… According to the Bible, God is a single person… These oracles present God as a unitary person… No one could even imagine God to be more than one divine person… Christian theology does not believe God to be one person…
Comment from Ray: They believe He’s three persons.
The Jews in history believe in and worship God, the single person… God is a single divine person… The Bible reveals that God is presented as a single person… With all the characteristics of a person… The Father who is not another or different person… The New Testament confirms the unique status of God as one person… God is only one person… Our Lord is one, definitely one, since the Lord is a person… One person…
Comment from Ray: Bear with me, there is a reason for what I am doing, trust me.
There is quite a difference, quite obviously, between God as a single person and as God as a what or what yet… In Scripture God is one person… Our Lord is a single Lord… One person… The faith of Judaism was always Unitarian belief in God as a single person… He is one individual person… They constantly say God is a single person… While Jesus speaks of God as a single person… God is one person…The One-person God of the Scriptures… For Jesus and the whole bible, God is a single divine person… Through the whole range of Scripture God is a single divine person…
Comment from Ray: Are you getting the point he is making? We can just stop there. Somebody tell me, what is the point? [Attendees answers: God is a person.]
He does admit here though that god is a title. The king of Israel had been called god (Psalms 45:6) and “this same title.” So I want you to remember that, that he concedes that god is a title.
Paul also said God is a person. God describes Himself as a single, undivided divine personality… Speaks of Himself of His own person… Even God Himself is said to be a person… Declaring to the Galatians, God is only one person… Being a single person… Clearly distinguished form the person of God… the person, God…When the masculine form of the one ‘eis’ is used, the meaning is one person… The New Testament speaks of God as one person… The sense in both halves of the sentence is one person… God is one person… In each case God is one person…
Comment from Ray: I’m only a third of the way through the book. So tell me again, what have you learned so far? [Attendees: God is one person.] How many of you now believe that God is one person? (Hands go up.) Wrong pale faces. Why am I the only one in here with a devious mind?
Had I read that five or six times, I might have let it pass… or ten or fifteen. But when I read that about twenty times I started circling them, twenty five times, thirty times, thirty five times, forty times. I mean, a big red flag went up. Then I got to thinking about it. Because I was a little sucked in, I knew what he was saying. But I also know what Trinitarians believe when they say God is three persons - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I know that, so it’s not as if I get all twitterpated or something. I mean I know what they’re saying and I can follow their reasoning or at least I try to and then at some point I’ll say, well no, that doesn’t work.
So like I said after about twenty, thirty, forty times, why would somebody mention that dozens and dozens and dozens of times? Why would somebody do that? I have never heard such redundancy in any book or article I have ever read in my life. What is he doing? [Attendee says, programming you.] Programming you, brainwashing you, setting you up. Every so often in there (I don’t want to read all those too) he interjects the shema Scripture “God is one.” God is one person.
Let me back up. I don’t want to go any further and I’ve only read up to page 265, so I have another 200 pages to go. Let’s go back and trust me, when I teach I use the scriptures. I do not come up with words and philosophies and stuff that are not in the scriptures. If you think I do, then you show me.
He says on page 27;
who then did Jesus think was God? Jesus Himself claimed in a conversation with the Jews, as we are going to see in detail, that He described the Jewish Unitarian Monotheistic Creed. The Shema, “Hear O Israel,” (Deut 6:4). The Shema proclaims that God is one person. That really settles it, the whole issue we are discussing here, that settles it.
Oh really? How many times did he tell us that God is a person? Dozens and dozens and dozens of times and he says, The Shema, “Hear O Israel,” (Deut 6:4). The Shema proclaims that God is one person. NO IT DOESN’T! I get a little vocal here, because I get aggravated with such stuff. The Bible does not proclaim God as one person, it does not. Nowhere! Although he states it over and over, page after page, sometimes five times on one page. Well then for Pete’s sake where does it say that? NOWHERE!
He is so upset at the Trinitarians, because they call God three persons. But this man borrows their stupid philosophy. They call God a person and he turns around and takes what he berates them for and he calls God a person! Now, what’s wrong with that? [Attendees: God is not a person… God is not a man.] That’s right, God is not a man. God is not a person.
The Trinitarians he says say that God is an essence. Actually, I think that can be true. (Buzzard says) He’s not an essence, He’s not a what, He’s a person.
American Heritage College Dictionary--
Essence – intrinsic or indispensable properties that characterize or identify something; the most important ingredient, the crucial element, the inherent unchanging nature of a thing.
What is God? [attendee: Spirit.] SPIRIT! What is the intrinsic, indispensable characteristic and most important ingredient crucial element of God… HIS ESSENCE! Now I don’t use that word, because I don’t want to be lumped in with Trinitarians. But quite frankly that is not so unscriptural as Mr. Buzzard would like to say. The essence of God is SPIRIT. That’s His essence, that’s what He is. The crucial thing about who and what God is, GOD IS SPIRIT. Nowhere does it say that God is a person.
Definitions: Person - a living human.
He says, it so bothers him that people (theologians) come up with words that are unscriptural and terms that are not Biblical and they twist things with words that don’t fit and so on. But here on page 191, he says, “the immortal God of Israel was never crucified; the theology of the Bible knows nothing of a mortal supreme God.”
So he admits nowhere in the Bible is God a mortal. So if Christ was God and He died, He was mortal… it doesn’t fit. Nowhere is God called mortal, okay keep that in mind.
Wycliffe’s Bible Dictionary--
Not only isn’t God called a person, the Hebrew language had no word denoting the concept of personality, which constitutes and characterizes a person.
They couldn’t have called God a person if they wanted to. They have no such word. Who are you going to believe? I just showed you, right?
Not only isn’t God called a person and he says God is called a person and he says the Shema says God is a single person. No it doesn’t, he lies and he knows, because he looked up that verse (Deuteronomy 6:4) and it does not say that God is a person. It does not! Yet he says dozens and dozens of times God is a person.
Kat:
A person is a living HUMAN. God is not human! He’s not a person. The Hebrews didn’t even have a word for person. I looked up person in my E-Sword and there’s only half a dozen times that you find the word person (it’s always in italics), it was added by the translators. There’s no word in the Hebrew that should be translated Person.
This is from the Internet.
Person:- an individual human being, especially distinguished from a thing or lower animal; an individual man, woman or child; a living human body.
American Heritage College Dictionary--
Person - a living human.
Webster’s--
Person - a person, a human.
Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary Unabridged--
Person - 1. An individual human being. 2. A living human body. 3. In theology (Ray’s comment: oh yea in pagan trinitariansim, which he berates as being totally false) one of the three modes of being God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. ( Comment: But we know that’s not Scriptural, although they put that in there. Because they know the church teaches that nonsense and calls God “three persons of the trinity.) 4. A human being; 5. in grammar, first second and third person (you, me, I, they, them and so on. That hasn’t anything to do with God.).
Word Origin and History--
Person: Persona - human being. Personae - a human being whether a man a woman or a child, a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing. The actual self or individual personality of a human being; the body (external aspect); in law, a person is a human being.
Synonyms - person, individual, personage, are terms applied to human beings.
Now can we understand that? Is that too difficult to know what a person is? The Bible has no such word, nowhere does it call God a person. I don’t see any definition where God is called a person. Yet this man mentions it over and over, dozens and dozens and dozens of times. It’s a lie.
Another definition (I don’t know what encyclopedia, can’t find the other list), of a person is - mortal. Isn’t that interesting. Somehow people will corner themselves and expose their utter hypocrisy.
(He says) “God, the immortal God of Israel was never crucified. The theology of the Bible knows nothing of a mortal supreme being.” What does he call God? Over and over and over again, dozens and dozens of times what does he call Him? A mortal! A person is a mortal human being. I rest my case.
His arguments against Christ are baloney. I told you yesterday, how he takes one of the most important verses in all scripture, that Jesus Christ emptied Himself (you can look up what that word “emptied” means), I read it to you out of different translations, He divested Himself of His powers and glory. One definition was to give up a title, right? How does he handle that? Does he discuss that in detail, so that we can really see that he can show us that it doesn’t mean what it says? He wipes that out with a doggone footnote! Like ‘that will take care of it. I’ll just put a little blurb here, you know that some people say that He emptied Himself of some previous glories or something.’ He has a little asterisk and he’s got footnotes, that’s taken from some Christian Encyclopedia or whatever.
CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN
(Notes)
[1] That Jesus was God’s “creative original” is wiped out… with a footnote (p. 191, Dictionary of Apostolic Church).
[2] That Jesus “emptied Himself” from a previous life is wiped out with a footnote (p. 187).
If Jesus was just another little Jewish boy, and there was nothing “divine” about Him, why was He not just born naturally like every other little Jewish boy? Or why not supernaturally by using the Virgin Mary? Why did He need to be “conceived” (impregnated) - given the first ingredient of LIFE by the Holy Spirit of God? Why? After all, “He’s just a man.” Would just an ordinary, natural born Jewish boy somehow not be qualified to be the flawless, perfect, sinless, Saviour of the world? Why not?
Does Jesus have to be 100% human OR 100% God - one or the other? Or was He 100% human AND 100% God - both at the same time? No!
Jesus was not 100% human nor 100% God. JESUS WAS TOTALLY UNIQUE. He was a divine being in the family of God, Who emptied Himself (Phil. 2:7) of His powerful Godly honors and dignities and title. Yet He retained some glory and honor (Heb. 2:9) when He was MADE (for a little while) lower than the angels for the suffering of death. But He was not 100% God, in that He had to ask His Father…
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
Also…
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.
Made Himself…
Emptied Himself…
Took upon Him…
Was made…
If Jesus never existed before He was fully born into humanity through Mary, how pray tell could He have “…made Himself… emptied Himself… took upon Him… and was made…” (Heb. 2:9)?
If Jesus had no prior existence, how could He possible ask His Father to give back to Him “…the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE the world was…” (John 17:5)?
If Jesus had no prior existence how could He possibly say, “…I came down from heaven…” (John 6:38) if He never was ever in heaven before His human birth?
If Jesus had no prior existence how could He state: “What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend UP where He was BEFORE“ (John 6:62)?
If Jesus was never in heaven before His human birth how could He dogmatically state: “I am the living bread which came DOWN FROM HEAVEN…” (John 6:51)?
If Jesus did not have a prior existence how could He state in John 3:13:
“And no one, hath ascended into heaven, save He that, out of heaven, descended, - The Son of Man.” (Rotherham)
“And no one has ascended into heaven, except the Son of man Who descended FROM HEAVEN.” (Emphatic Diaglott)
The spiritual “sprem” did not descend from heaven, but rather “The SON OF MAN descended from heaven.” Do you believe these Scriptures or do tou dispise these Scriptures?
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: He that cometh from heaven is above all.
v. 32 And what He hath seen and heard, that He testifieth; and no man receiveth His testimony.
“Seen and heard…” from where and from whom? From God His Father in heaven.
“GOD IS SPIRIT” (John 4:24)
“I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE” - ONE WHAT? One GOD or One SPIRIT? Excuse me!! ‘GOD IS SPIRIT” (John 4:24)!!
How many “Gods” are there? ONE
How many Gods does Jesus AND His Father make? ONE
When God is “ALL in All” how many Gods will there be? ONE
Jesus came from HEAVEN (John 6:35, 51, 57, 62 and He is “coming AGAIN from heaven.” (John 14:3)
How does John 14:3 conclusively prove that Jesus WAS IN HEAVEN sometime before He was crucified, resurrected, and went to heaven? If I say I am going to Moscow and will then RETURN in two weeks, does that prove that I was in Moscow at least one other time? NO. Neither did Jesus on this occasion say that He would “go and prepare a place for the disciples and RETURN.” Did He? No He didn’t. Here is what He said:
John 14:3 AndG2532 ifG1437 I goG4198 andG2532 prepareG2090 a placeG5117 for you,G5213 I will comeG2064 again,G3825 andG2532 receiveG3880 youG5209 untoG4314 myself;G1683 thatG2443 whereG3699 IG1473 am,G1510 there yeG5210 may beG5600 also.G2532
G3825 palin - through the idea of oscillatory repetition; (adverbially) anew, that is, (of place) back, (of time) once more, again.
It is possible to go to heaven and to “return from heaven” for the first time. But it is NOT possible to COME AGAIN from heaven for the first time, if one had never been there before!! See Luke 10:35.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (KJV)
John 4:3 He left Judea, and departed again (palin) into Galilee.
John 4:54 This is again (palin) the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judea into Galilee.
The Greek word ‘palin’ always, always means a second or more times to do something once more or again, no exception. 147 times out 147 times palin is translated “AGAIN.” What was or happened before, is again, or happening again.
“I AM” in John 8:58 & John 18: 5-6 VS “I AM in…
John 8:58 JesusG2424 saidG2036 unto them,G846 Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 BeforeG4250 AbrahamG11 was,G1096 IG1473 am.G1510
John 18:6 As soon then asG5613 G3767 he had saidG2036 unto them,G846 IG1473 amG1510 he (’he’ is not in the Greek), they wentG565 backward,G1519 G3694 andG2532 fellG4098 to the ground.G5476
Why in the world would they “fall to the ground” if all Jesus said was ‘yes, I’m Jesus’?
Exo 3:14 And GodH430 saidH559 untoH413 Moses,H4872 I AMH1961 THATH834 (who, what that Which, When) I AM:H1961 and he said,H559 ThusH3541 shalt thou sayH559 unto the childrenH1121 of Israel,H3478 I AMH1961 hath sentH7971 me untoH413 you.
“I AM” in Ex. 3:14 is from the Hebrew #1961 hayah and means: “to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic).” The very same Greek #1510 eimi, i-me’ - I exist (used only when emphatic): - am, have been, X it is I, was.
“And God SAID unto Moses…” I thought Jesus told us that “NO MAN has ever seen God or heard His voice.” (John 1:18 & 5:37) Who ya gonna believe - the heresy of men or the Word of God?
[attendee: Did he say anything about Genesis, the “us.”] I think he did, but very little. But here’s what he does say though over and over and over. He’s says there are like 2000, 3000 personal pronouns, a personal pronoun always talks in reference to one single solitary person. Well, no it doesn’t talk about God as a person and it doesn’t always talk about God with a personal pronoun like ye or me or my.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness…
That’s in the Hebrew and it wasn’t added by the translators, “OUR image, after OUR likeness.”
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become like (Me?).
Is that what it says? Who’s speaking? The LORD God. What did He say? Behold, the man is become as one of US…
Who is the LORD God according to this verse? “One of US.” One of US, that’s not a singular pronoun. “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness… he has become like one of US.” That’s the LORD God.
You say, ‘yea but it doesn’t use that throughout the whole…“ So what! I mean there are hundreds of subjects in the Bible that are not mentioned in every book in the Bible twenty five times. How many times must the Bible say something until it’s true? How many witnesses do we need on important subjects? Two or three.
Kat:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/THEGODFAMILYPT2.mp3
Audio 8
The God Family
(Part 2)
Look at this, he’s quoting from a scholar, Raymond Brown, page 111; Brown knows there are five New Testament passages in which Jesus may be identified as God. Oh, only five? Well, you can’t believe those five passages, why? Because it’s ONLY five. You need two or three witnesses for something to be true… and we only have five. This sounds like this crazy guy who sent me this email. Jesus said are there not twelve hours in a (what he said was a) twenty four hours day?’ Stupid nonsense.
(Continuing with Anthony Buzzard’s book.)
On the grounds that the use of God - for Jesus, is rare in the New Testament and therefore always to be considered improbable.
Comment: Why is it improbable that Jesus could bear the title God? Why? Because…
The occasions that say He is God, linked to being God or given the powers of divinity are rare.
Comment: Is there something wrong with me? Ten carat diamonds are rare. Well are there any? Does the fact that they are rare mean that there aren’t any? Do we need to be suspicious of anybody who says he has a diamond? Because why… they’re rare.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they become fools,
Concordant Version - “Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid,”
He concludes that…
There are only three texts where Jesus is clearly called God.
Comment: Well, we surely should throw those three out… there are only three that are absolutely clear stating that Jesus is God… don’t want to believe that. Because there are only three? You need TWO witnesses for something to be true. But we’ve got three, then throw that out. They are Hebrews 1: 8-9 ; John 1:1 and John 20:28.
Hebrews 1:8-9 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God.
Then on page 73, he says…
The same word ‘God’ is used for Jesus on two occasions. Five passages are found where Jesus is called God. The use of God, for Jesus, is rare.
Comment: We read that earlier, three texts clearly call Jesus God. He talks about theological literature and so on.
From Solid Exegetical and Lexical Facts and Historical Examination of the Bible, the best that apologetics can do is assemble a few isolated verses, mostly from John’s gospel and a handful from Paul that would say that Christ is God. Little attention is paid for a plain affirmation for the plain Unitarian statements of Jesus recorded by John.
Comment: My question is, how many are a handful? We only have “a handful…” and he says “a few isolated verses…
Just for fun, I looked up ‘isolate.‘ It means - to set apart, cut off, place in quarantine. …like a disease? Is that maybe what they are doing with those “isolated verses” regarding Christ’s divinity? Quarantining them like they’re some kind of disease? Notice, they’re mostly from John’s gospel and a handful from Paul. Well we sure can’t trust John and Paul… not those heretics. But you see the derogatory insinuations? There’s “a few isolated…” and there’s only “a handful…“ and they come from John and Paul.
Is that bad? Does that mean we don’t trust them? Does that mean that they’re not scripture? A few isolated verses… a handful of verses… a dozen verses…three verses… That’s not enough to establish that any of those verses are true?
In one place he says, this one scholar shows that Jesus is called God and he says…
Certainly He’s referred to as God in John 1:1; John 20:28; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13;
Hebrews 1:8 and 1 John 5:20.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ—according to the flesh—he who is over all, God, blessed unto the ages. Amen. (Rotherham)
Titus 2:13-14 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ…
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Well, what are we going to do with those verses? That’s only six references. Surely you can’t believe those references. This is where “He is certainly referred to as God” in those six different verses. But he doesn’t have them all.
Last night I showed you, we were talking about the “Almighty” and by his on admission he says “Jesus, not God, is the alpha and omega.” Remember he said that? Yesterday I said that. He concedes that is true, that God is not called the alpha and omega, but Jesus. That refers to Jesus he says, okay.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds (that‘s Jesus); and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him (Now they didn’t pierce the father, did they? They pierced Jesus) and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
v. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Mr. Buzzard says, this refers to Jesus only, not to God. That Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, “I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the last, says the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” Who is called Almighty, the Supreme sovereignty of the universe? JESUS!
I told you about, He is the Word of God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and God was the Word.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Revelation 19:13 …and His name is called The Word of God.
That’s Jesus!
Just a couple of other points, because when somebody tries to show me something and it doesn’t jibe with all the truths of God that I know, I check it out.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (then Buzzard puts in brackets) [the Messiah].
Before Abraham came (he wasn’t saying) I am the Messiah, but He said “I AM.” So let’s not put words in His mouth that weren’t there.
Before Abraham came into being or as it reads equally well in the Greek, before Abraham comes to be. If so translated, the Greek is ambiguous. Jesus makes the claim to be prior to Abraham in the resurrection. If Jesus means before Abraham’s birth, if He means that (in other words… if the Bible means what it says… or if Jesus meant what He says, oh God forbid. If Jesus meant before Abraham and that’s what it meant before his birth that He is the Messiah)[/I], this would be very similar to the text in Revelation 13: 8, that Jesus was crucified before the foundation of the world, that is God’s foreordained purpose.
So He says, we’ve got a scripture to back that up. But how He could say “I was before Abraham,” is in the plan of God… in God’s mind… in His plan or purpose, I (Jesus) was there. Not that He was really there, only in the mind of God was He there.
Now he has a Scripture to prove that in the book of Revelation. I’ve known this for years, I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned it, but I have know it for years, because I had reason to study that years ago.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Well now either that shows that in some way or shape or form, before the world was made, in God’s mind or whatever, Christ was already slain. Before He was ever brought into existence, right? Either that or maybe this is not translated properly. Let’s take a look at that concept.
The World English Bible:
Revelation 13:8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship Him, every one whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed.
Huh, do you get that? It was “written from the foundation of the world.”
Darby’s 1890 Translation:
Revelation 13:8 All that dwell in the earth shall do homage, everyone whose name had not been written from the founding of the world in the book of life of the slain Lambkin.
The Living Bible:
Revelation 13:8 they are the ones whose names were not written in the book of life before the world was made, the book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered.
Do you think that none of these translators knew what they were doing? Do you think that all these are phoney translations, that have not a clue as to what they were doing?
American Standard Version:
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, everyone whose name had not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that had been slain.
Not that had been slain from the foundation of the world, “written… in the book” before the foundation of the world.
The New American Bible:
Version Revelation 13:8 And all the inhabitants of the earth will worship It, all whose names had not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life which belongs to the Lamb who was slain.
Emphatic Diaglott:
Revelation 13:8 And all who dwell on the earth shall worship Him, whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the scroll of the life of that Lamb who was killed.
How many more do you need until you begin to think, ‘there might be something wrong with that King James translation?’ How much do you want to bet, that Mr. Buzzard looked that up in other translations? To see if perhaps he could get something stronger and found exactly what I found and said [sound of tearing out paper] I’m not going to use that?
The New Revised Standard Version:
Revelation 13:8 Everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of the life of the Lamb, that was slaughtered.
Moffat Translation:
Revelation 13:8 All dwellers on earth will be worshippers; everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb.
Here Moffat says, the words of the lamb slain are probably a gloss, a marginal insertion from Revelation 21:27. The “book of life” elsewhere appears without any such addition.
English Standard Version:
Rev 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
I quit there. I’ll tell you why I quit there. I somehow lost the site where it had hundreds of translations and that’s as far as I got. I couldn’t find the site back, just lost it. But anyway, I got that from hundreds of translations.
So, how much credence do we give that? “We know He was slain from the foundation of the world (but He wasn’t slain until 33AD) and what proves it? Revelation 13:8.“ Ooops! Not quite.
The main problem of his whole premise is, him trying to persuade people that God is one single individual unified person. So I asked myself, why is he telling that over and over… dozens and dozens... Don’t you agree, that’s a little bit of overkill? To make that statement five times on one page, isn’t that a little overkill? What do you think the answer to that is, why would he do that? How, if he shows that God is one person, how does it do that? You have to be as wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove when you study the scriptures, when somebody is trying to direct your mind.
Okay here’s what it is. A person, only one ‘person’ can be one person. There it is! He concedes a couple of things in his book. He admits that the word ‘god’ is a title. I’ve been saying that for many years. I wrote my trinity paper about 8 or 9 years ago and in there I made the statement ‘God is nowhere called a person.’ I was well aware of that when I saw this, but I knew what he was trying to say, emphasizing ‘one.’ But then when I heard it ten times, twenty times, thirty times, forty. No, no this man has got an agenda.
So I knew that God wasn’t a person, nowhere is He called a person, because I was writing that to show that the trinity is false too. He concedes that God is ‘a title.’ When he emphasizes that God is a single person and then he says two persons. He says that Jesus Christ is a person too and two persons can’t be ONE person. Does that makes sense? Children can understand that. Can two persons be one person? Can one crawl inside of the other and now there’s two persons in one person’s body? No. No it can’t.
So, it sounds like a pretty good argument. God is one person, Jesus is a person… Jesus can’t be God. Why?Because He’s already one person and two persons can’t be one person. In other words, he needs that word person. He’s got to have it. He’s got to have that word ‘person’ in his argument. To give it strength, he hypnotizes the people with it over and over and over.
Was it Hitler (Goebbels) that said, ‘if you tell a lie big enough, loud enough, often enough, people begin to believe it.’ Same principle! Dozens and dozens of times… he even says, Deuteronomy 6:4 the shema, says God is one person. It says no such thing! Neither does any other scripture of the Bible.
A person is a human being, I have 25 definitions from 25 different sources, a human being, a man or woman or a child as distinguished from an animal or any other thing, including the deity or God. That’s what a person is, a mortal is one of the definitions, a human, a mortal.
He says, ‘where do we ever read in the Bible that God is mortal?’ We don’t, but we read it in this book (of his). Dozens and dozens of times he calls God a mortal, because that’s what a person is, a mortal human being.
So he concedes that God is a title, but he says ‘over the centuries because God refers to Jesus Christ’s Father in so many hundreds and thousands of settings and books, in sermons… That the word God has become synonymous with the name of Jesus’ Father.’
It’s a title, but because it has been used so often with reference to God, it is now His name. Well he doesn’t say it is, he says it is accepted or something, as His name. What do we learn from that? He admits (like I said for many years) GOD is not the name of Jesus’ Father. How many times have you heard me say that? God is not the personal name of Jesus’ Father, it’s a title. In another place, he says it’s a title.
I’ll grant him that two persons can’t be one person. But God isn’t a person and He isn’t called a person. It is blasphemy to call God mortal or a human being. He does it dozens and dozens of times. Why doesn’t he say, ‘stick with the shema, the Lord your God is one Lord.’ One person? No. One LORD. Why doesn’t he stay with that? Because it doesn’t defend his heresy. He cannot prove his heresy if he sticks with the scriptures. He’s got to come up with something that is unscriptural, he’s got to make God a person. Because two individuals cannot become one individual or one person.
Can more than one individual be God? Yes, because it’s a title. Paul said, “there are many gods” (1 Corinthians 8:5 ). The same word ‘theos’ applied to what we consider the one and only God. But there are many gods.
In the beginning chapters (of the Bible) you know when something starts out and it’s the very first time it’s mentioned and you’ve got to think that this is setting a precedent here for the first time. He says “let Us make man in our image, after Our likeness” (Genesis 1:26) and “the man is become as one of Us.” ‘One’ of Us. Now we have the third verse of the Bible, “And God said, Let there be light and there was light.”
We have no direct quotation where God says He is speaking to somebody in His own voice, none. So who said “let there be light?” The Spokesman, the Word of God.
So, God is a title, it’s a title, Lord is a title. Jesus said you should love “the Lord your God” (Matthew 22:37). But there are many lords too.
[Attendee: Doesn’t Elohim have plurality in itself?] Does it denote it? [Plurality?] It is plural, Elohim. El is God. When it speaks about God where it doesn’t mention the Lord God, sometimes it’s in the singular, El. But in the opening verses, it is plural, Elohim.
So we have “God…” “God…” “God said…” “God created…” and so on and so forth. Then in chapter two verse four.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens,
It never mentioned “Jehovah” before that. That’s the first time, now we have Jehovah introduced.
So God is a term, a title. I can’t find it in the footnotes where he (Buzzard) mentioned that ‘no two people can be one person.‘ Therefore he has got to make God out to be a person. You can’t have two that are God or then you have two Gods. Is that true? No, that’s not true.
I lost my boy Blake, but he was a Smith, Blake was a Smith, my son. My name is Ray and I’m a Smith, Ray Smith. My boy was Blake Smith. So if somebody were to say, ‘that boy over there, Blake, is he a Smith? Yeah, that’s Ray’s boy, he’s a Smith.’ Is that hard to understand?
So the idea that anything having to do with God has got to be singular, ‘because there’s only one God,’ is nonsense.
We have a service to protect the United States called the military. We have an army. How many armies do we have? Well, there are many divisions of armies. But let’s pick a smaller country that just has one army. Can more than one person be a member of an army? Okay, what about a band?
Is God a family? I know one scripture in Ephesians says “household of God” in the King James. But the Concordant and others have “the family of God.”
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Paul is speaking to the Gentiles here. Now that word “household” can be translated “family.” The Concordant I know for sure translates it “family.” So we are going to be of the household or the family of God. God is a family. We can’t be of God’s family unless God is a family. Can more than one individual be part of God’s family? YES. Is Jesus Christ a part of the family of God? YES, He’s God’s Son. Will we be a part of that family? YES.
So show me where God can only be one person. Show me. Show me a Scripture, not a bunch of double-talking fraudulent nonsense. Show me a Scripture where God is called an individual person and that only one person can be one person, therefore no one can be God, but the Father.
God is a family, He is producing children, sons and daughters. We’re going to be a part of the household or the family of God. God and family are synonymous in that sense. It’s a title for the Supreme Being and His closest associates, which is God’s family, Father, sons, daughters.
But he (Buzzard) can’t let you know that more than one individual can be in the family of God. He must establish that God is a single person, so that no one would be so stupid as to argue that two persons can be one person. But the Bible doesn’t say that God is a person. He’s not a human, He’s not a mortal, He’s not a man. The Father is not a man. Masculine, but not a man.
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