Repentance a MAJOR Door to understanding!

[Deborah-Leigh]

I love it that Ray says, repentance is a MAJOR door to understanding.

There is no haughty arrogance in that benefit of receiving repentance through the goodness of God.

Ray explains this so eloquently that even a small child would see it and understand it. It is "grown ups"   that have trouble getting to grips with basic truths of reason and of Spirit.

That we repent in increments as Ray explains – is also wonderful in that God does not just zap any of us but tenderly, gently as we are able, God brings us changes we need to understand Him and see Him for who He really is.

Until we repent we are dead in our sins. So that major door to understanding may be also the door through which we meet the Resurrection to Life....our life in Christ.  

Ref :  L. Ray Smith Transcript REPENTANCE

Arc

[CEO]

Deb

I am going to read "Repentence' now.

Askseeknock

Charles O

[Deborah-Leigh]

Great Charles O!

I have just seen another thing. Ray describes maturity! 

It really is a compliment to see the definition that I believe is fitting this Forum more and more each day!

What speaks to you?

Arc

[Kat]

Hi Arc,

I can see that the forum is really maturing too and I think that being here together has helped us tremendously. We are developing into a kind of close knit family, not only are we studying together that I think accelerates the learning process, but also we have comfort and encouragement from each other.

God has provided this place for His people so that we can be taken care of and He is using each of us one way or another to accomplish that. So those that have been here for a while and have gained some maturity, can help the new ones that come here after being beaten down by the world/Babylon. It's such a blessing to be here and to realize and see how He has brought all of this about.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Phil3:10]

Arc,
Growth is never ending and it is from the teachings of Ray Smith and this forum that my greatest growth has come. A special thanks to you and Kathy who have contributed so much to my growth in HIM who is everything.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[Marky Mark]

Until we repent we are dead in our sins. So that major door to understanding may be also the door through which we meet the Resurrection to Life....our life in Christ.
Arc

Repent with eyes wide open.

A turning away of ones sinful ways and knowing that the Word is all powerful in our desire to do what is right is such a blessing when our loving Lord explains the importance of such Spiritual Truths.The following verse just slammed me to the ground when my eyes and ears were opened to these all so important Spiritual Truths.
Simple,elegant, and to the point.
Amen.




WNT
Rom 2:1  You are therefore without excuse, O man, whoever you are who sit in judgement upon others. For when you pass judgement on your fellow man, you condemn yourself; for you who sit in judgement upon others are guilty of the same misdeeds;
Rom 2:2  and we know that God's judgement against those who commit such sins is in accordance with the truth. Rom 2:3  And you who pronounce judgement upon those who do such things although your own conduct is the same as theirs--do you imagine that you yourself will escape unpunished when God judges?
Rom 2:4  Or is it that you think slightingly of His infinite goodness, forbearance and patience, unaware that the goodness of God is gently drawing you to repentance?
Rom 2:5  The fact is that in the stubbornness of your impenitent heart you are treasuring up against yourself anger on the day of Anger--the day when the righteousness of God's judgements will stand revealed.
Rom 2:6  TO EACH MAN HE WILL MAKE AN AWARD CORRESPONDING TO HIS ACTIONS;
Rom 2:7  to those on the one hand who, by lives of persistent right-doing, are striving for glory, honour and immortality, the Life of the Ages;
Rom 2:8  while on the other hand upon the self-willed who disobey the truth and obey unrighteousness will fall anger and fury, affliction and awful distress,
Rom 2:9  coming upon the soul of every man and woman who deliberately does wrong--upon the Jew first, and then upon the Gentile;
Rom 2:10  whereas glory, honour and peace will be given to every one who does what is good and right--to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.
Rom 2:11  For God pays no attention to this world's distinctions.
Rom 2:12  For all who have sinned apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who have sinned whilst living under the Law, will be judged by the Law.
Rom 2:13  It is not those that merely hear the Law read who are righteous in the sight of God, but it is those that obey the Law who will be pronounced righteous.
Rom 2:14  For when Gentiles who have no Law obey by natural instinct the commands of the Law, they, without having a Law, are a Law to themselves;
Rom 2:15  since they exhibit proof that a knowledge of the conduct which the Law requires is engraven on their hearts, while their consciences also bear witness to the Law, and their thoughts, as if in mutual discussion, accuse them or perhaps maintain their innocence--
Rom 2:16  on the day when God will judge the secrets of men's lives by Jesus Christ, as declared in the Good News as I have taught it.
Rom 2:17  And since you claim the name of Jew, and find rest and satisfaction in the Law, and make your boast in God,
Rom 2:18  and know the supreme will, and can test things that differ--being a man who receives instruction from the Law--
Rom 2:19  and have persuaded yourself that, as for you, you are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
Rom 2:20  a schoolmaster for the dull and ignorant, a teacher of the young, because in the Law you possess an outline of real knowledge and an outline of the truth:
Rom 2:21  you then who teach your fellow man, do you refuse to teach yourself? You who cry out against stealing, are you yourself a thief?
Rom 2:22  You who forbid adultery, do you commit adultery? You who loathe idols, do you plunder their temples?
Rom 2:23  You who make your boast in the Law, do you offend against its commands and so dishonour God?
Rom 2:24  FOR THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILE NATIONS BECAUSE OF YOU, as Holy Writ declares.
Rom 2:25  Circumcision does indeed profit, if you obey the Law; but if you are a Law-breaker, the fact that you have been circumcised counts for nothing.
Rom 2:26  In the same way if an uncircumcised man pays attention to the just requirements of the Law, shall not his lack of circumcision be overlooked, and,
Rom 2:27  although he is a Gentile by birth, if he scrupulously obeys the Law, shall he not sit in judgement upon you who, possessing, as you do, a written Law and circumcision, are yet a Law-breaker?
Rom 2:28  For the true Jew is not the man who is simply a Jew outwardly, and true circumcision is not that which is outward and bodily.
Rom 2:29  But the true Jew is one inwardly, and true circumcision is heart-circumcision--not literal, but spiritual; and such people receive praise not from men, but from God.


Peace...Mark

[Deborah-Leigh]

I can see that the forum is really maturing

It has been a real joy being here Kat and also seeing the many challenges we have together encountered that have sharpened our discernment and appreciations for the Truth. Iron sharpening iron!

it is from the teachings of Ray Smith and this forum that my greatest growth has come

I believe every one of us here, who has been here and is yet to join, can affirm what you have pointed out Phil3:10 Our liberty, our freedom and our joy to have stepped out of darkness into the Light of Christ  through His Heart and Mind reaching out to each of us here, through our Ray Smith.

Thank you for your acknowledgement of Kathy and I. Blessed are you Phil 3:10 as you too are here in the Name of the Lord.

Repent with eyes wide open.

Excellent Marky Mark!  Who we have been looking for has been here all along. We belong with HIM.
Our praise is with,  from and of  Him.

Arc

[dave]

Yes, yes, YES! And thank you Mark, and Mark, did you write that verse in there? Just kidding, but I just had not seen verse 4 stuck in there between 3 and 5 so bright and lit up!

[Deborah-Leigh]

This discussion has caused me to become more sensitised to when I repent.

48 hours ago, I was Blessed to repent of something impossible for me to have identified needing repentance! It filled me with a deeper appreciation for Mercy and Pity.

When did any of you last notice that you repented of something poignant?

Arc

[aqrinc]

My 2 cents: Unless we are dragged to Repent, we cannot even begin to understand what it entails. It took many readings and listening to Ray's Repentance Papers and Audio to understand how really desperate and wretched every one of us is(ME). My o'man is still very angry at me for listening to the then small voice, which now has taken the dominant position in what life (By Christ In Me) i live. Until we really understand Repentance and then start coming to Repentance; all we are doing; is just running in place, warming up for the race. Here are my Scriptures that now rings out always:

Mat 6:27-34 (CLV)
27 "Now who of you by worrying is able to add on to his stature one cubit?
28 And why are you worrying about apparel? Study the anemones of the field, how they are growing. Not toiling are they, nor yet are they spinning.

29 Yet I am saying to you that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed as one of these.

30 Now if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the stove, God thus is garbing; not much rather you, scant of faith?

31 "You, then, should not be worrying, saying, 'What may we be eating?' or 'What may we be drinking?' or 'With what may we be clothed?'

32 For for all these the nations are seeking. For aware is your heavenly Father that you need all of these.
33 Yet seek first the kingdom and its righteousness, and these all shall be added to you.
34 You should not, then, be worrying about the morrow, for the morrow will be worrying of itself. Sufficient for the day is its own evil.

Php 2:1-13 (JB PHILLIPS NT)
Php 2:1 1-4 Now if your experience of Christ's encouragement and love means anything to you, if you have known something of the fellowship of his Spirit, and all that it means in kindness and deep sympathy, do make my best hope for you come true! Live together in harmony, live together in love, as though you had only one mind and one spirit between you. Never act from motives of rivalry or personal vanity, but in humility think more of each other than you do of yourselves. None of you should think only of his own affairs, but should learn to see things from other people's point of view.

Php 2:5 5-11 Let Christ himself be your example as to what your attitude should be. For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God's equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal. That is why God has now lifted him so high, and has given him the name beyond all names, so that at the name of Jesus "every knee shall bow", whether in Heaven or earth or under the earth. And that is why, in the end, "every tongue shall confess" that Jesus Christ" is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This is one of the few Translations that i think got this right.
Php 2:12 12-13 So then, my dearest friends, as you have always followed my advice - and that not only when I was present to give it - so now that I am far away be keener than ever to work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility. For it is God who is at work within you, giving you the will and the power to achieve his purpose.

george.

[Deborah-Leigh]

'With what may we be clothed?'

Garments of praise, apparel of gratitude and rich cloaks of adoration for our God in reverential appreciation that He has caused everything and is responsible for all of us.

learn to see things from other people's point of view

.

Kat has often mentioned in the welcome section of new members here in the Forum that there are many different views that are united in our diversity in the Mind of Christ. Well, not in so many words Kat, if you read this, but this is what I think you  illustrate  when you identify the like-mindedness of the membership here.

work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility.

We can comprehend, much better than this translation, with the knowledge of God shown to us through the expounded Word of God by Ray, to replace the word RESPONSIBLE with ACCOUNTABLE....

For it is God who is at work within you, giving you the will and the power to achieve His purpose.

I love that translation that shows the Sovereignty of God and the absence of free will!

YES God has given us a proper, humble and sober sense of awe and ACCOUNTABILITY knowing what we know now! Amazing isn't it !

Thank you for posting the Scriptures you were guided to share with us George.

Arc

[aqrinc]

work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility.

We can comprehend, much better than this translation, with the knowledge of God shown to us through the expounded Word of God by Ray, to replace the word RESPONSIBLE with ACCOUNTABLE....

The emphasis here, was on (awe and responsibility) (vs fear and trembling), rather than who is ultimately responsible.

Actually in this case, the word responsibility is quite correct, we are responsible to account for how the work done in and to us, is manifested, by shining the light and not hiding it under a barrel.

That may be a bit simplified, but that is what Grace through Faith Is teaching us to be; Responsible children of GOD THE FATHER And our Lord Jesus Christ. When we are totally regenerated, then we are to be in the image of (just like) our Creator; process continuing currently.

Php 2:12 12-13 So then, my dearest friends, as you have always followed my advice - and that not only when I was present to give it - so now that I am far away be keener than ever to work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility (Not fear and trembling). For it is God who is at work within you, giving you the will and the power to achieve his purpose.

george .

[longhorn]

Ray's article on " Repentance & Guilty of ALL "  from the 2005 Nashville conference is awsome.  To think how many times in my life what could have happend had God removed his Hedge or Frame from around me is very humbling and scary.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

[dave]

This is one of the few Translations that i think got this right.
Php 2:12 12-13 So then, my dearest friends, as you have always followed my advice - and that not only when I was present to give it - so now that I am far away be keener than ever to work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility. For it is God who is at work within you, giving you the will and the power to achieve his purpose.

I really like that translation! I know it gives away my logistics.... But Glory! Aint God good!!!

[judith collier]

You know, if the forum were run any differently this fellowship wouldn't work but because of the discipline here it does. At first I thought you guys were somewhat fanatic but I get it now and it has had for lack of a better word a 'sobering' effect on me. There was a lack of integrity in myself concerning God and I didn't know what it was. My limited knowledge was my belief, there wasn't any growth. My soul and spirit by the Word of God and the teaching of it here are now fusing. Still have a ways to go though. My thanks to God and all of you! judy

[claypot]

Hi Arc,

I can see that the forum is really maturing too and I think that being here together has helped us tremendously. We are developing into a kind of close knit family, not only are we studying together that I think accelerates the learning process, but also we have comfort and encouragement from each other.

God has provided this place for His people so that we can be taken care of and He is using each of us one way or another to accomplish that. So those that have been here for a while and have gained some maturity, can help the new ones that come here after being beaten down by the world/Babylon. It's such a blessing to be here and to realize and see how He has brought all of this about.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Beautifully put Kat. Perfectly put! Of course I'm new here but I feel in my spirit that you are completely right on. I feel your sincerity here! It is like an oasis in a very dry desert!

cp

[Deborah-Leigh]

to  think how many times in my life what could have happend had God removed his Hedge or Frame from around me is very humbling and scary.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday Longhorn!

Most of the world's assurances,  sell us a false sense of security, that are for sale which we have to pay for like insurance, safety belts, tithes and vitamins.
A false peace of mind, doesn't depend on God.
We cannot buy God's protection.

Psa 119:117  Hold me up, and I shall be safe; and I will always have respect to Your Precepts.
Pro 18:10  The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.
God's protection is not for sale -  so we can appreciate God so much more as you say, Longhorn, for  that FRAME God has framed us in.
Yes micah7:9 I too enjoy that Scripture that shows us that God gives us the desire AND the ability to achieve His Purpose.  There are TWO aspects to this. Desire and Ability. Both are God's gifts to us
.
God has you here for His wonderful Purpose Judy and it is great that He is showing you His Work as He trains you in His precepts.


Hi aqr

I expressed the comment that we are not responsible but accountable, with the following in mind. 

GOD IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ETERNAL FATE OF AFRICANS
A Sermon by:
James Kennedy, A.B., M.Div., M.Th., D.D.,
D.Sac.Lit., PhD., Litt.D., D.Sac.Theol., D. Humane Let.
A Critique by:  L. Ray Smith

RESPONSIBILITY
Not only are all the billions of heathens who never heard the gospel not responsible for their own salvation, but neither are we responsible for our salvation either. Nowhere in the Scriptures does God hold man responsible for anything. This is just another man-made doctrine that clashes with the Scriptures.
We can use the word "responsible" in a relative sense, such as: "It is a man's responsibility to provide for his family." We all know what the word means. But even if this man doesn't provide for his family, God will hold him accountable not responsible.

Arc

[claypot]

A Sermon by:
James Kennedy, A.B., M.Div., M.Th., D.D.,
D.Sac.Lit., PhD., Litt.D., D.Sac.Theol., D. Humane Let.
A Critique by:  L. Ray Smith

RESPONSIBILITY
Not only are all the billions of heathens who never heard the gospel not responsible for their own salvation, but neither are we responsible for our salvation either. Nowhere in the Scriptures does God hold man responsible for anything. This is just another man-made doctrine that clashes with the Scriptures.
We can use the word "responsible" in a relative sense, such as: "It is a man's responsibility to provide for his family." We all know what the word means. But even if this man doesn't provide for his family, God will hold him accountable not responsible.[/color]

Arc

Hey Arc, this still blows my mind a bit. Can you explain why we are even accountable?

Do you see it as we will give an account of why we did as we did and God will know He was responsible for making us with weak hearts? Will our accounting of ourselves be an explanation to God on why we did as we did?

Is it like Adam and Eve who seemed to have to give an accounting for what they did.....she gave to me and I did eat.......or it was the serpent.........?

God did seem to accept their accounts as factual which is clear by His response.

cp

[Deborah-Leigh]

Can you explain why we are even accountable?

God MAKES us accountable.

If we were not accountable, then we would be as a robot. We are not robots.

God includes us in His work by extending to us accountability for our actions. This inclusion does not preclude God's Work but depends on God's Work within us.  God will have ALL the Glory for His Work and one day we shall all see that if it were not for God, we could not have any part of the Glorious Work of God that is making us into His Image.

Our accountability is God's way to include us in the Glorious finale when He will reward us for His Work. We shall come to see that all is of God and even those good works that God has ordained that we shall walk in, we shall see are His Works prepared before us. That God will give us the reward for these works that He prepares before us, is just the magnificence of God's Love that is so vast it defies human logic.

How can God reward us for what He does? Make us accountable and see what God does.

Try to look at accountability not from the evil or painful consequence of mis-conduct, but from the every knee will bow, perspective and hold your breath as you see how Great our God is. 

That's the best I can do for now. Let me know if you see something.

Arc

[Kat]

Hi Claypot,

Here is an email response that Ray explains the accountability thing.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility -----------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Chris:

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,

Ray