bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Soul/Spirit Question  (Read 9768 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

claypot

  • Guest
Soul/Spirit Question
« on: March 22, 2010, 08:04:09 PM »

You do see Adam and Eve as us, all of us don’t you?

Quote from: Arcturus link=topic=11576.msg100274#msg100274
date=1269290279
Nope :D I am not Eve. I am Deborah :)

Do you think I am off base or do you know what Ray may think of what I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul. It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality. I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.

cp
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 12:11:59 AM by mharrell08 »
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2010, 09:12:13 PM »

Do you think I am off base or do you know what Ray may think of what I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul. It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality. I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.

cp


With respect, Ray may think that we are not 'soul' and 'spirit' as seperate parts of our nature.  God breathed Spirit into man and he became a living soul.  You and I ARE souls.  We don't have souls.  That understood, there aren't two parts of 'us' known as Spirit and Soul to be represented by Adam and Eve.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2010, 09:50:47 PM »

Do you think I am off base or do you know what Ray may think of what I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul. It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality. I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.

cp


With respect, Ray may think that we are not 'soul' and 'spirit' as seperate parts of our nature.  God breathed Spirit into man and he became a living soul.  You and I ARE souls.  We don't have souls.  That understood, there aren't two parts of 'us' known as Spirit and Soul to be represented by Adam and Eve.

Ditto.

george ::).

Logged

claypot

  • Guest
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2010, 11:11:28 PM »

 
Do you think I am off base or do you know what Ray may think of what I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul. It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality. I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.

cp



With respect, Ray may think that we are not 'soul' and 'spirit' as seperate parts of our nature.  God breathed Spirit into man and he became a living soul.  You and I ARE souls.  We don't have souls.  That understood, there aren't two parts of 'us' known as Spirit and Soul to be represented by Adam and Eve.

That’s interesting. I will have to seek further into Ray’s understanding on this matter. I have always thought of our make up as body, soul and spirit. I don’t see myself as a soul only. I am a living soul to be sure but only because something of spirit has been introduced to my physical make up. 3 components yet one unit which is me.

I, like you say Ray believes, also do not see spirit and soul as separate parts of our nature. There are no ‘parts’ only one being put forth here.

I’ve always looked at it like a light bulb. The electricity is likened to the spirit and the physical element within the bulb is likened to the physical body and when the electricity connects with the physical element in the bulb then light (soul) is produced. Just like when God made the body and then breathed into it, it became a living soul (the light came on).

What this says to me is that when any part of the 3 (not 2 as you said Dave) are gone then I cease to be me. The spirit returns to God as it says in Scripture and the body returns to the dust as Scripture indicates while the soul goes into what the Hebrews understood as a nothingness kind of like where the light goes when turn the light switch to off.

I see all 3 aspects as being me. God made me out of 3 realities and I don’t think lightly of any one of them.

And let me add Dave that what I see very clearly is not only does Adam represent spirit and Eve represent soul, I see the serpent as representing our more physical, fleshly or carnal nature. The carnal mind is enmity against God and so is the serpent.
It all lines up quite nicely but one must have eyes to see. Now don’t get me wrong, I may be completely bonkers here and if it wasn’t for this train of thought lining up so perfectly with the rest of Scripture I would dismiss it completely.

I am searching Ray’s writings to see what he has to say about all this and I tell you, from what I’ve read he comes very close but I can’t nail him down yet. Ray sees so much more than I do in so many areas. I’d love to talk with him about all this or find writings of his concerning this as I know how he loves the spiritual aspect of all of God’s words.

cp
Logged

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2010, 11:30:20 PM »

Hey Claypot,
You really need to get this trinity stuff out of your head.
Check out this email response by Ray:
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html

   Dear Waylan:

    It is true that we all speak of "THE soul" as if there is a separate entity inside of our body that is called "the soul."  Not true. Without the spirit there is NO SOUL. Without the body there is NO SOUL.  Take a blue piece if transparent plastic or cellophane. Place it half way over a same size piece of yellow cellophane. You will have blue on one side, yellow on the other, and GREEN in the middle. The blue is the body, the yellow is the spirit, and the GREEN IS THE SOUL.  Notice that there is NO SOUL without the blue body and the yellow spirit. Separate the blue and yellow cellophane and the GREEN soul disappears. This is exactly how the human soul must be combined with a body and spirit, or IT DOES NOT EVEN EXIST. They are very closely related and appear to overlap, but there are distinction between soul and spirit. Understood?  Good.

    God be with you,

    Ray


Waylan
You have to get out of out if your head the idea that the spirit soul and body are "separate entities" as if they could function independently of each other.  Remember my TV analogy of six years ago?  The console is the body, the picture is the soul, and the electricity is the spirit. Yes, they are "entities," if you will that have distinct names, and functions, but none of them produces anything independent of each other. Smash the console and you have not soul (picture). Pull the plug and you have not soul (picture). 
Likewise remove the spirit, and the body dies. Remove the spirit and the soul disappears. Smash the body and the soul disappears. The soul IS THE SENTIENT man. The emotional, thinking, conscious man. This consciousness is called "soul."  It is not a thing that can literally travel or go somewhere independent of the body and brain. That is why it is said in the Greek Scriptures that at death the soul goes to hades. Hades means the unseen, the emperceptible, unconsciousness.
It take spirit from God in a body to give it live, which life is then called "a LIVING SOUL."
It tkes a little meditation to understand these concepts.

God be with you,
Ray


Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,(body) and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life(spirit); and man became a living soul(soul).

Soul is the product of body and spirit union.

I hope this helps you Claypot!
Good thread by the way!
Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Kat

  • Guest
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2010, 11:37:20 PM »


Hi Claypot,

This is the link to Ray's letter to James Kennedy “God is not responsible for the eternal fate of Africans.”
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm
Near the beginning it has his explanation to 'spirit, soul and body.'

It is going to be difficult for us to teach you all that Ray has to say on the many different subjects bit by bit here. But with all of your questions that is what is being attempted. Ray has all of his articles that are just filled with the information you are seeking, so don't you think it would be much better if you were to read these articles then seek our help where you have difficulty. I hope you understand, there is so much to read, but it would be well worth your time to proceed in that direction.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 11:57:38 PM by Kat »
Logged

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 11:42:15 PM »

Ok, I think I understand your analogy but what your saying here needs some scriptural support:

Quote
And let me add Dave that what I see very clearly is not only does Adam represent spirit and Eve represent soul, I see the serpent as representing our more physical, fleshly or carnal nature. The carnal mind is enmity against God and so is the serpent.
It all lines up quite nicely but one must have eyes to see. Now don’t get me wrong, I may be completely bonkers here and if it wasn’t for this train of thought lining up so perfectly with the rest of Scripture I would dismiss it completely.

Also, no matter how people say it, it boggles my mind the different paths people take to make Satan our carnal mind! :(

Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

claypot

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 12:45:31 AM »

Thanks all and I will be reading much more. I just wanted to zero in with some like minded people for a bit and it is refreshing. I'm not going anywhere for I know you all have much I need and want but I am falling behind in reading. I am halfway through one of Ray's videos on free will and I am so anxious to finish it and continue on. I know I will find many answers through reading and listening but it is very refreshing (I say again) to converse a bit.

I do have Scripture for all I have put forth or I would not put it forth and I am not saying anything about a trinity. Ray's 2 letters to Waylan are almost identical to what I just wrote here in this thread. His TV analogy is, to me, exactly like my lightbulb one. And thanks Anta, for pointing me to Ray's words on all this. I feel like you have laid spiritual gold at my feet.

I am not a soul only. I am body, soul and spirit. Take one away and I am not me. This I already wrote. These are not 3 things to me. They are 3 realities, 3 thoughts of God if you will, that make one essence.

cp
Logged

claypot

  • Guest
Re: God Knows All?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 12:57:16 AM »

Ok, I think I understand your analogy but what your saying here needs some scriptural support:

Quote
And let me add Dave that what I see very clearly is not only does Adam represent spirit and Eve represent soul, I see the serpent as representing our more physical, fleshly or carnal nature. The carnal mind is enmity against God and so is the serpent.
It all lines up quite nicely but one must have eyes to see. Now don’t get me wrong, I may be completely bonkers here and if it wasn’t for this train of thought lining up so perfectly with the rest of Scripture I would dismiss it completely.

Also, no matter how people say it, it boggles my mind the different paths people take to make Satan our carnal mind! :(

Antaiwan

Romans 8.7 states that the carnal mind is enmity against God. Satan is enmity against God. Adam, Eve and Serpent are a perfect formula for man. Notice it was only when Eve (soul) took control of things that things went bad. Whenever the soulish nature usurps the spiritual all ‘hell’ breaks loose yet when the spiritual (Jesus) is in control all is well.

Why did Eve take control? What enticed her? A physical literal slimy little salamander? I just don’t think this is the spiritual message God intended for us. I think God was telling us that within our very make up we have a very subtle serpent (a carnal mindset) at work. It’s job is to deceive us and it does a good job.

If I have learned anything from Ray so far it is that Jesus’ words are primarily spiritual and I take that to mean all of the words of Scripture are spiritual in nature.

Just some thoughts.

cp
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 01:44:15 AM »

I offered the two because those are the two you mentioned.  

I'm left with the question:  What is soul?

Leave it to theology--especially philosophical theology--to confuse us so much that we can't even understand what we are.  "Soul" is best (though maybe not perfectly) defined in maritime terms.  "The ship sank with 30 souls aboard".  Thirty souls were lost.  Thirty sailors died.  

Did the 30 souls leave their bodies when they drowned?  No.  Thirty souls drowned.  Well then, after they drowned did they go to sheol/hades?  Well, they didn't go to a place at all...not even one with a cool Hebrew or Greek name that means "Imperceptible".  They "went", in a manner of speaking, to what the name means, not to a place named that.    

Scripture doesn't define life, death, soul, and spirit; it describes them.  You'd think we'd have enough experience with life to understand what that was, even before we understood its purpose.  We can walk in much assurance from Scripture about what the 'invisible' side of dying is like.  With some care, patience, and Spiritual help we can get rid of those casper-the-friendly-ghost-like doctrines and understandings of 'soul'.  But we can't imagine Spirit.  As soon as we think we can, that 'image' becomes by definition un-Spiritual.

If I've taught here, I'm sharing what I've come to understand by the Grace of God by way of Ray and B-T.  I'm always open to correction from that source.
      

 

  
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 06:38:46 AM »

Quote
Do you think I am off base

I do not see the premise you are working with.
 
Quote
or do you know what Ray may think of what I see as Adam
No. I do not know what Ray may think of what you see as Adam. I don’t even know what you see as Adam. Your premise is not disclosed.


Quote
I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul.

Ahah, finally! There is the premise! Okay, lets look at this through the BT spectrum.

Number one, where is your Scripture that supports this premise that Adam is OUR Spirit and Eve is our soul? This would be necessary to find as is stated in the 12 Godly ways to understanding Gods word. Find two witnesses to uncover, discern and evaluate or test doctrine.

I can think of just one Scripture that throws your whole premise overboard. Jesus is the LAST Adam but this is not about what I believe, it is about looking at what you believe. So there you go. Your foundation at first glance, does not appear to be Scriptural. Seductive? Yes. Very enticing.  Yes. Spit it out. RUN! Have you ever smelt the first sweet smell of a anesthetic?  Stay alert. :)

Quote
It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality.

This comes straight out of Babylon. This is a teaching that is in Theology one.  Heresy is universal to Babylon and blasphemy they have in common.

Quote
when the spirit rules the soul

Where is the Scripture to support this theory of manmade doctrines of demons? Don’t be offended cp. This relates entirely to the Doctrines of Babylon of which you are called to “come out.”

Quote
when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality.

When the spirit RULES the soul but when the soul RULES…..wha wha…wha WHAT. When ever does the soul RULE? Oh! As in when the soul thwarts the perfect Plan and Purpose of God? No. Not then. When the soul manifests its desires contrary to the Spirit? Is that when the soul RULES? No. There is no contest cp. The soul manifests the weakness of the heart in the lusts of the flesh that cannot and does not walk according to the Spirit.  A soul cannot rule anything.
 
Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You may, or someone else may think I am being high handed with you cp but I am simply applying tools given to us all to USE in the paper we have titled TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD L Ray Smith

Quote
I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.

There is another base/premise/axiom in there somewhere. :D

All I  did with your first comment was to  apply the test of The 12 Truths! This shows up what is true and what is false.  I don’t want to humiliate you. I would  prefer you use your God given intelligence to tear down the idols of error and blasphemy and try to see them for yourself.  Gently of course!  :)

You say you like the heat of debate. This is a far more beneficial practice don’t you think? Apply the truth to see the lies using the tools of discernment.

May you never be the same again. :)

Arc
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 06:42:46 AM by Arcturus »
Logged

G. Driggs

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 09:41:06 AM »

You do see Adam and Eve as us, all of us don’t you?


Do you think I am off base or do you know what Ray may think of what I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul. It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality. I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.

cp


Hi claypot, here is what I found with what Ray has said about what Adam and Eve spiritually represent. In a nutshell, Adam spiritually represents Jesus, and Eve spiritually represents the church.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html

Now can you see any spiritual connection in all this?  How God is longing for a compliment, a counterpart, someone to compliment someone.  It says a counterpart in the Greek, a compliment, or a help meet.  A counter part for Adam that was not found, now he has a compliment, a counterpart to him, to make him complete. 

That’s what God is longing for.  Where is it going to come from?   Out of Him.  He has one Son, Jesus Christ, we are sons in the making.  So where did Christ come from? 

In the Hebrew the word is no. 6763 - tsela, and it can be translated ‘rib,’ and door, side and chamber.  In Ezekiel 10 times this same word translated rib is translated chamber.  A chamber-maid is usually some one who tends to the house, but specially the bedroom.  If you look up chamber, the definition is a private room.  The bedroom is your most private room.  Our sexual anatomy is called our private parts.  Can you put it together?  This is not a rib.  He took the femininity from him and made a woman.  First He put it in the man, and then He took it from the man and made a woman out of it.

Now an interesting thing.  It says in Tim. 2:14, that when Eve took the forbidden fruit she was deceived, the serpent had deceived her.  But Adam was not deceived.  Well if she was deceived, and she ate the fruit.  Why did Adam eat it?  He wasn’t deceived, so why did he eat it?  Why didn’t he say you dumb female, you stupid wife of mine.  How could you do such a dumb thing.  No, no he did not.  She gave him some and he ate it too. 
Why would he do that?  He knew.  Because God told him first, and He told him specifically.  And we know Eve knew because she said to the serpent, “God has said.”  But first He said it to Adam before he created Eve.  You can eat of every tree but of this tree you can not and the day you eat there of you will DIE. (Gen. 2:16-17)
In the Hebrew, ‘to die you shall be dying.”  You will begin to die, you will be mortal and just die.  You will be mortal and come to old age and die.  So he knew that, he knew that when Eve ate it she was going to die.  He longed for that woman so long and now she is going to die.  He loved her so much, he said if she is going to die, I’m going to die with her, and he ate the fruit.  He knew full well he would die, and he said I’m going with her.  I’m not going to let her go alone, you see.  So he was willing to die for that woman.
You see any spiritual connections?

Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it [He died],
v. 26  that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
v. 27  that He might present it to Himself as the glorious church, without spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
v. 28  So men ought to love their wives as their own bodies.

The first woman came from the body of man.

v. 28 “He who loves his wife loves himself.
v. 29  For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord loves the church.
v. 30  For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.”

Adam said to the woman, she is flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone, she came out of me.

So we are members of His body, flesh of his flesh and it says;

Gen 2:24 For this cause, will a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To getter an even better understanding, please read the entire paper.

Hope this helps :)

Peace, G.Driggs

Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 10:04:44 AM »



Whatever "O man" is.  That’s what we are, because "O man" is Adam.  "O man" came out of Adam.  Where did you come from, some place else?  We’re all out of Adam.  And what does Adam do?  "Being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters" and on and on.  Wow, this is "O man" out of Adam.  L Ray Smith Ref : Repentance

Arc
Logged

claypot

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 10:44:09 AM »

 

I do not see the premise you are working with.

You will especially if you ask God to show you.
 
I see as Adam representing our spirit while Eve represents our soul.




Ahah, finally! There is the premise! Okay, lets look at this through the BT spectrum.

Number one, where is your Scripture that supports this premise that Adam is OUR Spirit and Eve is our soul? This would be necessary to find as is stated in the 12 Godly ways to understanding Gods word. Find two witnesses to uncover, discern and evaluate or test doctrine.

I can think of just one Scripture that throws your whole premise overboard. Jesus is the LAST Adam but this is not about what I believe, it is about looking at what you believe. So there you go. Your foundation at first glance, does not appear to be Scriptural. Seductive? Yes. Very enticing.  Yes. Spit it out. RUN! Have you ever smelt the first sweet smell of a anesthetic?  Stay alert. :)


If you do not see what I am saying is spread out through all of Scripture then I can’t  make you see it but God can and if what I see is true, He will.

It is when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality.



This comes straight out of Babylon. This is a teaching that is in Theology one.  Heresy is universal to Babylon and blasphemy they have in common.

I am applying this train of thought to Adam and Eve representing spirit and soul. It was only when Eve (soul) took things into her hands that the fruit was eaten and this was no mistake of God’s, it was, as Ray teaches too, a perfectly executed plan on His part. Where was Adam when all this took place between Eve and the serpent?

when the spirit rules the soul



Where is the Scripture to support this theory of manmade doctrines of demons? Don’t be offended cp. This relates entirely to the Doctrines of Babylon of which you are called to “come out.”

Be careful Arc, what you call manmade doctrines of demons.

when the spirit rules the soul that all is well but when the soul rules there is carnality.



When the spirit RULES the soul but when the soul RULES…..wha wha…wha WHAT. When ever does the soul RULE? Oh! As in when the soul thwarts the perfect Plan and Purpose of God? No. Not then. When the soul manifests its desires contrary to the Spirit? Is that when the soul RULES? No. There is no contest cp. The soul manifests the weakness of the heart in the lusts of the flesh that cannot and does not walk according to the Spirit.  A soul cannot rule anything.

We are soulish creatures in the beginning. I believe Ray confirms this in his teachings. As such we do not fare very well yet when the Divine (Jesus) is sent into (our) world, all is put in order again.
 
Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.



You may, or someone else may think I am being high handed with you cp but I am simply applying tools given to us all to USE in the paper we have titled TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD L Ray Smith

I absolutely loved the paper you speak of and I will read again and probably again and again and I have sent it to friends so I know of what you speak and I agree with abiding by it.

I find this spiritual take very fitting with all of Scripture like when Paul talks of the husband and wife and so forth.



All I  did with your first comment was to  apply the test of The 12 Truths! This shows up what is true and what is false.  I don’t want to humiliate you. I would  prefer you use your God given intelligence to tear down the idols of error and blasphemy and try to see them for yourself.  Gently of course!  :)

You say you like the heat of debate. This is a far more beneficial practice don’t you think? Apply the truth to see the lies using the tools of discernment.

May you never be the same again. :)



I do not feel humiliated in the least, just charged up and raring to go and I thank God that He is using you to give me life. I know I will never be the same again, I knew that the minute I started reading Ray’s writings and writings in accordance with his and this reading of Ray’s writings started some 2 or 3 years ago. Something strong just took hold not too long ago and that’s why I’m here.


Here’s an additional comment I started to write……………..
Hi Arc. I am not offended in the least and I thank you for taking time with me. My spirit roars, my soul soars, my flesh needs to type on this confounded thing we call a computer but these are all good things as I believe the Spirit has all in control in this household.

I can give you Scripture after Scripture to ‘prove’ my point but if your filter or foundation is other than mine then every Scripture I give you will be met with a rejection. If I am correct in any way it will take God Himself to show you and where I am wrong I will need God to show me and I know we both will rest comfortably in that. Now saying all that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t share and share abundantly what we have or even what we think we have from God so I will continue for you all are very gracious and human and divine and I feel good here!

cp

Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 12:02:20 PM »

I can feel  your enthusiasm cp.  There is nothing wrong with that. It is invigorating and wonderful to be able to be civil in exchange of contentious issues.
You see Adam as representing our spirit? Now which Adam would that be? The first Adam or the Last?

Quote
If you do not see what I am saying is spread out through all of Scripture then I can’t  make you see it but God can and if what I see is true, He will.
Oh but I did see what you are saying. You just do not believe  what I see.  You want me to see what you see and you do not want to see what I see.
 
What you say is represented throughout all the scriptures is that Adam represents our spirit and Eve our soul.  I do not see it cp. Sorry.  There is a first Adam and a LAST Adam.  The first Adam is NOT Christ and the Last Adam is the quickening Spirit of Christ.

The first Adam is Oh man, the carnal  as repeated in the Repentance study by Ray Smith.

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

You see that Eve represents our soul.  With the paper excerpt presented by G Driggs, let us see if this fits with what you are expressing.

Can you put it together?  This is not a rib.  He took the femininity from him and made a woman.  First He put it in the man, and then He took it from the man and made a woman out of it. Quote from L Ray Smith

Okay so now lets see. Adam, the soulish man of carnality, is put to sleep and his soul is removed? Sorry. No can do. That just doesn’t have any substance or support in the Word of God. You have to say God took part of the soul of Adam and put it into Eve. So half a soul plus another half a soul makes a soul mate right?  They are one when they are conjugally united.
 
Okay, lets see what happens next.

Back to Adam and Eve. Adam, the quickening spirit, unites with Eve the soul and enter Gods Spirit dividing the spirit and the soul and then you have a manifest child of God living on the Earth in a carnal body, with an impure mind and housing an immortal God.  Right?

There is something very wrong with that conclusion cp. It is a nice and exciting thought but one that is not endorsed by the Word of God yet.  Not now, not today. Judgment is still on the House of God  - for me anyway. If you are saying that judgment is concluded for you and that you are now sinless, perfected and in the image of God, manifested as a Son of God, then cp, good for you. Each to their own. I am still in the Word of God, yet to be revealed and resurrected either to life or WT judgment.
You profess that God will show me what you are seeing if it is true. It is true alright. God has not yet brought in the WTJ. There is still no one in the flesh who is the manifestation of a Son or Daughter of God. God’s work is not yet done. The world still groans for the manifestation of the Sons and Daughters of God.

Are you saying you are not of the world and so you don’t groan. Are you exempt from the Grace of God working in the Sons and Daughters of His Kingdom. Who has bewitched you cp?

You say God will show me if what you see is true. You are truly seeing a lie, a deception cp.  Only God’s Spirit can expose deceptions and lies and by inference you are saying that it is not God who is revealing to me the errors of your assumptions.  Of what do you accuse me cp?

Quote
Where was Adam when all this took place between Eve and the serpent?

You infer that Adam the spirit, was absent to Eve the soul and body element of Adam. That is not scriptural cp.  That goes against what Ray has expounded here in BT. The soul and spirit and body are ONE>  A body without a spirit is DEAD.
 
Your analogy has a seemingly endless path of twists and turns into assumptions, imaginations and doctrines of demons that don’t go nowhere but lead straight into heresy and blasphemy and can  entice away by the lusts of a weak heart.   You know. Wolves among the sheep.
 
You say I should be careful what I call manmade doctrines of demons.  Cp the doctrine of Babylon and all the harlot daughters have espoused doctrines of demons and they worship the seat of Satan who appears to them as an Angel of light. God says the same thing I am saying to you so your caution is not to me, it is to God.
 
You say we are soulish creatures in the beginning. Twaddle cp. We are not soulish creatures without a spirit of God breathed into us to give us life. We are carnal natural creatures. To say we are soulish is to denigrate God and His Son who have feelings, sentiments and all the sentient emotions of our souls having first been the Ones to experience everything we are given in part to experience for ourselves.

You say when Jesus is sent into (our) world, all is put in order again.

Okay, so that means…..that means….what exactly?

I am glad you aren’t offended.  Neither am I. :)
 
Just answer the last question, (with the permission of the Moderators,) and we can take it from there if the thread is not locked down for being an attempt at teaching which is what you are doing by the way cp. Not that I’ve learnt, agreed or approved of  anything you have presented, except that there are many seductive teachings OUT THERE!

Arc
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 12:36:08 PM »


Hi Claypot,

Quote
I can give you Scripture after Scripture to ‘prove’ my point but if your filter or foundation is other than mine then every Scripture I give you will be met with a rejection. If I am correct in any way it will take God Himself to show you and where I am wrong I will need God to show me and I know we both will rest comfortably in that.

We do not reject the truth of the Scripture here, so please give us chapter and verse to what you are referring to. When we have our eyes opened to the truth it is God's Holy Spirit that shows us all what we learn in the Scriptures, and that Holy Spirit teaches us all the same thing, that is what brings the unity of the Spirit.

Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Quote
Now saying all that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t share and share abundantly what we have or even what we think we have from God so I will continue for you all are very gracious and human and divine and I feel good here!

Forum Rule:
If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.

THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS


We have this rule so that there will not be confusion. That's why we use Ray's articles as a bases of how we explain things. When we are trying to put things in our own words then slight variances in what we are saying can be exaggerated when another person tries to understand it and this leads to confusion. This is not the place to "share abundantly what we have or even what we think we have from God." We need to just keep to the source that brought us all here, Bible Truths.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

claypot

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 12:54:17 PM »

Hey Arc, relax a bit. I am sorry. I don't think I'm doing any of the things you think I'm doing or you think I'm inferring. Let's call it a day and let God sort it out. You win, I may be all wrong. What I see I see and I will answer to God for it.

I am not giving up, just want to keep it simple and within the guidelines of this site. I am for the building up of the saints and I need building up more than most but I don't think I'm as bad as your words seem to imply, but I will not judge you by a few posts on a thread in cyberspace. It would be an honor to meet you face to face some day but that will probably never happen but if it did I know any misunderstandings would be cleared up. My communicative skills are not as good via postings as my face to face encounters.

Let's see, I do want to, because you asked, respond to your last question.

I see, and now you got me afraid to answer, (just kidding) but I see God trying to communicate to us that in the sending of His Son into the world He is showing us that because we are in a carnal, natural way that we need an infusion of His Divinity as it were. His Son. I am earth or a world. I tend to see every human as a world. So complex and unique. God sends His Son into the world (me, you, all). And we come to believe through His workings in us, for it is God who wills and works in us.

This is all I will say for now for I think it will offend you even more. Better I stick to safer topics for now. I will re-read all your words to me though and talk to God, our Father and go from there. His word will not return void, in my life or yours or anyone’s.

Sorry again for any anxiety I may have caused you or anyone on this forum. I am not here to get anyone to believe as I do as you accused me of. I do want to share and glean but I will be careful. None of us know all and I am content with that and I am the first to admit I probably know less than most but I do think God has given me a morsel or two to chew while I work my way through this episode of life.

cp
Logged

claypot

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 12:56:47 PM »

Kat, I hear ya and understand. Thanks and I will keep striving to 'fit in' a bit better. Thanks for your patience.

cp
Logged

daywalker

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 02:35:53 PM »


Claypot,

I think this excerpt below will help you with your understanding of body, soul, and spirit... It helped me...

Daywalker




http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm


TV ANALOGY: Body, spirit & Soul


Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.

Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.
Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.

Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.

Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.

Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).

At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.

But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.

And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.

Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.

If you were to ask an ancient Hebrew person what happens to the soul (the thinking, feeling, animated, sentient personality of a man) at death, he would shrug his shoulders or say "who knows" or just say "it disappears." That's what "Sheol" meant to the Hebrews. It was a question mark. And the Greeks had their word for the same idea (Hades-the UNSEEN, the IMPERCEPTIBLE), and hades and sheol are synonymous in Scripture (Ps 16:10 & Acts 2:27).

There is one more profound Scriptural truth that is also perfectly analogous to the operation of a TV, and that is this: Picture God's Throne as the Broadcast Headquarters. The TV picture Tube, by itself, is not the source or originator of the picture it portrays on the screen. It is a channel for the signal transmitted from the TV Station and Tower. It can only manifest and portray on its screen that which is sent from the source [God]. And often the source [God] uses intermediaries like satellites [Angels] to relay the signals.

In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.
Logged

claypot

  • Guest
Re: Soul/Spirit Question
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2010, 02:39:23 PM »


Claypot,

I think this excerpt below will help you with your understanding of body, soul, and spirit... It helped me...

Daywalker

It helps much, thanks Day.

cp
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 22 queries.