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How are we heaven?
Extol:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27960.html#msg27960 ---
In "The Father's Will" Mobile '06 Conference, Ray says:
"Now He resides in heaven, the heavens being (among other things) us. Our spirituality is of heaven and He dwells in man. Don’t you know your body is a holy temple of God. There are multiple heavens."
I remember reading similar things on bibletruths; about the "heavens" being our minds/thoughts or something. Can someone provide some Scriptures that help explain this? Or has Ray written about it in greater detail? I did a keyword search for "heaven" at biblegateway, and there are many hundreds of verses, so I thought I would ask here instead of going through every one of them. By saying that we are heaven, does Ray simply mean that God dwells in us [Acts 17:28], or is there more to it than that?
Roy Coates:
Excerpt from 'What is the Gospel of the Kingdom?' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html):
HEAVEN OF THE HEAVENS
So what is the kingdom? We are the kingdom of God. We are the kingdom of the heavens.
Where does God reside? In heaven. God resides in heaven, but it is not called the kingdom of heaven in the Greek, you can check Rotherham and all those, it’s kingdom of the heavens, plural. We are the temple of God. God resides in His temple God resides in heaven. We are the heaven in which God resides, where He dwells.
But don’t get to haughty, because the Scriptures say, not even all the heaven of the heavens can contain Him.
2Chron 6:18 …Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built!
But never the less it is true, He does dwell in the heavens. But they can’t even contain Him, He’s bigger than that. But He does dwell in His heavens, we are His heavens, we are His spiritual kingdom. But it does not yet appear what we shall be, we only have the earnest, down payment of His spirit.
Eph 1:14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
We have the down payment, but John says we will eventually see Him as He is, because we will be like Him. We will be like Jesus Christ.
1John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
So we are the kingdom of God. Christ is going to return with a kingdom. What does He return with? What is the symbolism of how Christ returns? He returns on, what is He riding? A white horse. Is anybody with Him? An army. Are they walking? They are riding on white horses too.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
What is that army? The kingdom of God, it’s us. We are coming with Him, He is going to gather us up. Gather up what? His army, His kingdom.
We still have all these parables though. We are the kingdom of God, so what are all these parbles?
The kingdom of God is like…a merchant
The kingdom of God is like…a seed
The kingdom of God is like…a king that goes afar
The kingdom of God is like…workers in a vineyard
Like… like… like…what is it like?
Specifically we will see what the parables are all talking about, they are all talking about the same thing. Jesus Christ says, “Do you not know this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” (Mark 4:13)
So does it mean if you know one parable that you can know them all? Yes. Why? They are all the same. That’s why the kingdom of God is like this and also like this and like this and this, etc. Well what is that ‘like,’ like what? Well it’s like Seed. But what is that? What is it saying though? The Seed and the country and the vineyard and the leaven… what is it actually saying? What is it like? What is the ‘like’?
WHAT IS THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM?
So we are the kingdom! We are the kingdom of God. We are the temples - the heavens in which God’s Spirit dwells. We are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar special people to God and through this kingdom, with Christ as the King, all the families of the earth are going to be blessed. But we are blessed through judgment and they are going to be blessed in judgment. We may think it would be nice if it was another way, but it’s through judgment
G. Driggs:
Just to add to what Roy posted.
The Lake of Fire - Part IX
THE LIFE AND MISSION OF SATAN THE SERPENT DEVIL
http://www.bible-truths.com/lake9.html
I BEHELD SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN
Now for one of the most amazing symbol identifications found anywhere in the Scriptures. What did Jesus mean when He said: "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18)? Did Jesus see Satan fall from the sky? Did Satan fall from outer space? Did Satan fall from the throne of God’s heaven? From what "heaven" did Jesus see Satan as lightning FALL FROM? If only we can believe the Scriptures.
GOD’S HEAVEN IS HIGHER THAN MAN’S HEAVEN
Satan is the god of this world (II Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MAN’S concept of heaven. The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:
"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"
The king of Babylon had a dream, and in the dream his kingdom was likened to a tree:
"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached into HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:11).
The kingdom of Babylon didn’t grow into GOD’S heaven, that’s for sure. No, Daniel identifies who the tree represents:
"The tree that you saw… It is YOU, O king, that are grown and become strong: for your greatness is grown, and reached unto HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:20a & 22).
The king of Babylon reached the same heaven that the city of Capernaum reached:
"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).
Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:
"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."
Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).
God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.
Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,
"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).
Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps
G.Driggs
Kat:
Hi Extol,
Here are a few emails where Ray speaks of "heaven" to add to what Roy and George already posted.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2268.0.html -----
When the Scriptures say that something is "like" something else, it means "similar, in some ways." Not the "same as," as some people think the word "like" means, but "similar." Not similar in all ways, but similar in "certain ways." The word like is really pretty close to a metaphor. A metaphor is when one thing is said to BE something else, as "the lake of fire IS the second death." But it is not LITERALLY what it is said to be, but only "like something else, IN CERTAIN WAYS."
Are you now thoroughly confused? I hope not. And so the Kingdom of God is "like"............"leaven in three measures of meal." It is NOT leaven in three measures of meal, but "SIMILARY, IN CERTAIN WAYS." The Kingdom of God is LIKE, "a drag net full of all kinds of fishes." It is NOT literal fishes, but "SIMILAR, in certain ways." Some fish are good for food and some are not (that's about all fish are good for AT ALL, unless you have them for pets--but you can't pet a fish, like I can and do pet my cats all the time). They are good for food or not good for food. The Kingdom of God is LIKE THAT. Some of those who Believe in and follow Jesus are GOOD FOR FOOD (spiritual food) for the nations of the world), but some are not--in fact, some are POISONOUS--like the unbelievably painful rock fish.
The Kingdom of God is "similar to, in certain ways," a plainted or plants grain............A man who takes account of his servants..................a man who builds a house................new wine in old wine skins..........the wheat and the tars.............the pearl of great priced..................the prodigal son and the older brother..........the lost sheep.....................the unforgiving servant.................the workers in the vineyard........the wise and foolish virgins..............the talents............the good samaritan..................the barren fig tree.............the great supper.........the lost coin............the Rich man and Lazarus........the Persistant Widow............the Pharisee and the tax collector, etc., etc., etc. Are you seeing it? The Kingdom of God is like "MANY ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN"! NOW are you getting it? I hope so. I'll take it up in a future Conference (but you have got to come.......)!!
God be with you,
Ray
Does that help you at all? Just carry this truth out in every parable concerning the Kngdom of God, and you will begin to understand what the Kingdom of God is really LIKE. Isn't understanding the Scriptures really fund?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4138.0.html --------
The "Kingdom of God" also known as the "Kingdom of the heavenS," is God's domain, where He resides. To the degree that we have God's Spirit is the degree to which we reside in this Kingdom. At present we are merely begotten, awaiting a new birth into His Kingdom. This Kingdom has no end after the physical has passed away. Etc. Too big a subject for an email.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2772.0.html -----
God lives in a different "realm" from us. If we must use
physical analogies, I suppose we could say that we live in the physical
subject to death; whereas God lives in the spirit and never dies. We
live in a world of wickedness; whereas God lives in a world of
righteousness. We live in darkness; whereas God lives in light.
God's elect are making the transition and transformation from evil
to good; from physical to spiritual; for darkness to light.
God tells us absolutely nothing concerning our future spiritual lives
with Him. The Scriptures are silent on this aspect of God's plan. We
must accept on faith that all will be as great as God promises.
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#babel ------------------------
Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock.
God's heaven is a higher spiritual realm of life and existence, not a geographical location in outer space.
Hope that helps a little.
God be with you,
Ray
claypot:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on March 24, 2010, 10:57:03 AM ---Just to add to what Roy posted.
The Lake of Fire - Part IX
THE LIFE AND MISSION OF SATAN THE SERPENT DEVIL
http://www.bible-truths.com/lake9.html
I BEHELD SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN
Now for one of the most amazing symbol identifications found anywhere in the Scriptures. What did Jesus mean when He said: "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18)? Did Jesus see Satan fall from the sky? Did Satan fall from outer space? Did Satan fall from the throne of God’s heaven? From what "heaven" did Jesus see Satan as lightning FALL FROM? If only we can believe the Scriptures.
GOD’S HEAVEN IS HIGHER THAN MAN’S HEAVEN
Satan is the god of this world (II Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MAN’S concept of heaven. The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:
"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"
The king of Babylon had a dream, and in the dream his kingdom was likened to a tree:
"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached into HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:11).
The kingdom of Babylon didn’t grow into GOD’S heaven, that’s for sure. No, Daniel identifies who the tree represents:
"The tree that you saw… It is YOU, O king, that are grown and become strong: for your greatness is grown, and reached unto HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:20a & 22).
The king of Babylon reached the same heaven that the city of Capernaum reached:
"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).
Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:
"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."
Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).
God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.
Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,
"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).
Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
This is so good and what I, in my feeble way, was trying to say. Ray said this….
It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind
This is why I like Ray’s teachings so much. I said similar to Arc but was kind of taken to task but now that I see Ray saying the same thing I feel exhilarated again.
I said the serpent in the garden represents the carnal mind of natural man and Rays says…..
Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced"
Ray does say it better but what he is saying is what I was inferring. I am off to re-read this article again. Thanks Drigg for posting it.
cp
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