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Author Topic: Jesus tells the thief: "today you will be with me in paradise"  (Read 25180 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Jesus tells the thief: "today you will be with me in paradise"

It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context.  Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He?  No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise."  But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant.  Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse:  "Verily I say unto thee this day:  With me shalt thou be in Paradise."  But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution?  God tells us how to solve this verse and every other verse of Scripture:  "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
But is this what theology does?  No, theologians say this this verse EXPLAINS ITSELF --"That VERY DAY the thief went with Christ TO HEAVEN."  Oh really?  That is not what the REST of the Bible teaches.
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that?  Is there any Scriptural justification for that?  NO, no there isn't.  In what way do the Scriptures liken paradise to heaven?  Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures.  "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9).  And what else is that Garden of Eden called?  Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
[1]  The "Garden of Eden."  Was that garden, "heaven?"  What did we find in that garden:  (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
[2]  The "Garden of Gethsemane."  Was that garden "heaven?"  What did we find in that garden?  (1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden,  (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you?  I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43.  Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God.  This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does.  That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
God be with you,


Amazing what a difference the proper placing of a comma will do to the meaning of a sentence.

Luke 23:43 should read as follows:  "Verily [truly], to you am I saying TODAY, [comma] with Me shall you be in paradise."

Punctuation was not inspired or used in the original Manuscripts from which our modern language Bibles have been translated. Christ DID NOT go to a place called "paradise" on the day that He was crucified, and neither did anyone else.   Here is proof:

When placing the comma where it should go, the meaning is that Christ told the thief "today" that "with Me SHALL [future] you be in paradise."

Christ was in the "heart of the earth" (a rock tomb) for three whole days and nights following His crucifixion:  "For EVEN AS Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights,  THUS WILL the Son of Mankind be in the HEART OF THE EARTH THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS" (Matt. 12:40).

Christ was to return to HEAVEN after His crucifixion. But Heaven is NEVER CALLED PARADISE. Paradise is a Persian word that means a beautiful garden (as in the Garden of Eden, not Heaven).

Just before dying, Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands am I committing MY SPIRIT." So upon death Christ's spirit returned to God, just as ours also do (Luke 23:46). Though Christ's spirit returned to God, Christ (Himself) was DEAD! Christ DIED on the cross for our sins:  He did NOT go to paradise for our sins!

Christ's BODY was put into a Tomb, "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and laid it in his own new tomb..." (Mat. 27:59-60). Christ's body did NOT go to a place called paradise. The ONLY SIGN that Christ gave the Pharisees that He was indeed the Messiah was the length of time that He would remain dead in the grave.  ""Three days AND three nights"--and even the very sign that Jesus gave of His Messiahship is denied by virtually all of Christendom. They change three days and three nights to Friday sunset until Easter [a totally pagan name and goddess] Sunday morning (barely one and a half days).*

Christ's "soul" went to the realm of "hades" (the UNSEEN OR IMPERCEPTIBLE), NOT a "paradise."

AFTER Jesus was crucified, dead, and buried, and AFTER three days and three nights, and AFTER He was resurrected, He said to Meriam, "Do NOT TOUCH ME, for NOT AS YET HAVE I ASCENDED TO MY FATHER" (John 20:17). So even AFTER His resurrection, He was NOT IN A PLACE CALLED PARADISE WITH THE THIEF, but rather conversing with Meriam and the Disciples for forty days.

Seven is a good number, so I will stop with that. There are always many many Scriptures that totally disprove the heretical doctrines of men.

*  Ed. note.  Ray changed his mind about the meaning of "the heart of the earth".  His explanation can be found here:,11616.0.html
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 10:38:17 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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