> General Discussions
Question about sin and Jesus.
hcumbow:
Hi, although I am new to the forum, I am not new to Our Father and Lord Jesus. I have read much of the writings here and they fit in with what I have been taught over the past 23 years after coming out of Babylon and seeking the truth which can only come from our Creator, the Word.
Thus far in life regarding sin, I was taken back to the garden. In the garden before the fall, man was learning God's will. Man was commanded NOT to eat from the tree of "the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL", he was NOT given a choice. If the tree represents choosing for oneself what is good and evil, then eating from it means choosing SELF WILL over Gods Will and that is sin. Turning AWAY from the will of the ONLY one who can teach good and evil in an appropriate manner and choosing to deciding for oneself what it is is good or evil is sin. Even Jesus when he came said he came NOT to do his will but the will of the Father who sent him. When our sole purpose is to seek and learn Gods Will (his way) then we may fall but will always get up and try again as he teaches us more and more of his light (truth).
If this is wrong, please feel free to voice direction. :)
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: hcumbow on March 30, 2010, 03:11:21 PM ---Hi, although I am new to the forum, I am not new to Our Father and Lord Jesus. I have read much of the writings here and they fit in with what I have been taught over the past 23 years after coming out of Babylon and seeking the truth which can only come from our Creator, the Word.
Thus far in life regarding sin, I was taken back to the garden. In the garden before the fall, man was learning God's will. Man was commanded NOT to eat from the tree of "the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL", he was NOT given a choice. If the tree represents choosing for oneself what is good and evil, then eating from it means choosing SELF WILL over Gods Will and that is sin. Turning AWAY from the will of the ONLY one who can teach good and evil in an appropriate manner and choosing to deciding for oneself what it is is good or evil is sin. Even Jesus when he came said he came NOT to do his will but the will of the Father who sent him. When our sole purpose is to seek and learn Gods Will (his way) then we may fall but will always get up and try again as he teaches us more and more of his light (truth).
If this is wrong, please feel free to voice direction. :)
--- End quote ---
Hello Hcumbow and welcome to the forum,
A few points in regards to your comments:
1. There is no such thing as 'the fall' of mankind. (Please see Lake of Fire Part 15-D under the header 'The Unscriptural Fall of Man'.)
2. Adam and Eve were given a choice regarding whether or not to eat of the tree of life. But their choice was not free of other causes and circumstances present.
3. The scriptures state that the tree represents a knowledge of good and evil, not the choice itself to choose to eat of it or not. It was necessary for man to eat of the knowledge of the tree, as it is necessary process in making man into the image of God.
Gen 3:22 The LORD God said [after Adam & Eve partook of the tree of knowledge], Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil
4. The Lord places everyone, save Jesus, in a position to resist His Will. One cannot be freed from the law of sin & death unless they are under it. (Please see Lake of Fire Part 15-A, under the header 'DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN GOD’S STATED WILL AND HIS PLAN OR INTENTIONS')
Hope this helps,
Marques
hcumbow:
Another piece of light from the garden, did anyone ever really notice that man was put out of the garden for his own good? After disobeying the command to NOT partake of self will (to determine for oneself what is good and evil), man was banished to protect him from himself. How loving a Creator we have!
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Now man is tilling the ground from whence he was taken, and history is a trail of the fruit of those labors of attempting to figure out what is good or evil and the purpose of it by means of self instead of taught by God who created it all. Evil has its purpose, it is to teach and refine. Compare and contrast.
And even man's was disciplined for disobeying a direct command which was only meant for his good, even the discipline was laced with a promise of the way it will be when God's plan is completed and ALL will learn and delight in doing the will of God.
ericsteven:
--- Quote ---Sin means to miss the mark. So very technically, if you are having target practice at a target and you miss the bulls eye, because that’s what you were trying to hit, you sinned. You missed the mark. You didn’t do what you wanted to do, you missed. So any failure, any mistake is a sin. Now it doesn’t have to be a big sin. We all make mistakes, you know.
--- End quote ---
Lupac. I believe that what Ray is referring to here is the basic meaning of the Hebrew word chata' that is translated most often as “sin” in the Old Testament. For example:
Exodus 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin (chata’) not.
Psalm 41:4 I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned (chata’) against thee.
Now from Judges 20:16...
Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss (chata').
So if these seven hundred chosen men had missed the target at which they were slinging stones, they would have sinned. i.e missed their mark.
That is all Ray was saying I think. Missing the mark, making a mistake is the basic meaning of the word, whether one is trying to shoot an arrow into a bullseye and misses or one is climbing a ladder and his/her foot slips and they fall.
Now when it comes to our relationship with God, we sin or miss the mark when we disobey His law. And since there are no laws from God that say that we should always hit a bullseye when we shoot an arrow or never fall from a ladder, we are not sinning against Him should we fail to do those things.
John says that sin is lawlessness (I John 3:4). God’s law is the mark and to fail to live by that law is sin against Him. That is what brings punishment and chastisement, not falling from a ladder or missing a bullseye.
As far as Jesus falling while walking to Golgotha, I agree with John from Kentucky. There are many things about Jesus’ life on this earth that we simply do not know because they are not recorded in the Scriptures. Just because it doesn’t say that he fell doesn’t mean that he didn’t. He was under tremendous physical pressure and stress at the time, so I for one would not blame him if he was not able to remain on his own two feet the entire walk. But the Scriptures just do not say, and the fault lies with those in the churches who have chosen to make a doctrine out of whether or not he fell and how many times he fell. It’s ridiculous some of the doctrines people make up these days simply to have something on which to preach every Sunday.
That said, if Jesus did fall, would he have sinned? If his “mark” or “goal” was to remain on his feet the whole walk to Golgotha (I’m not saying it was; this is just an “if”) and he fell, then yes, according to the basic meaning of the word, he did “sin.” He missed his mark. But he didn’t sin against God, because as far as I am aware, there is no law from God that says one must remain on his/her feet the entire time he/she is walking to his/her death.
Hope that makes sense,
Eric
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---when God's plan is completed and ALL will learn and delight in doing the will of God.
--- End quote ---
That's a happy thought Heidi. :)
Welcome to the Forum.
Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Arc
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version