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Question about sin and Jesus.
hcumbow:
I think my first quote was misunderstood. I did not mean man was given a choice, that would be free will and we don't have it . However man did choose to eat from the tree AFTER being directly commanded NOT to.
Man is constantly making choices out of choosing to trust in what SELF wills (thinks or determines) instead of what God Wills (teaches, directs or reveals). They turn from CREATOR to SELF putting SELF in place of God. All sin results from that root premise and branches out from there into all the fruits of the flesh. God knew and planned for this to happen or He wouldn't have put the tree in the garden in the first place. Nor would He have created evil to use as a means to bring about His plan. What better way to teach man than to let him write the history until he nearly completely destroys himself?
Heidi
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: hcumbow on March 30, 2010, 04:41:23 PM ---I think my first quote was misunderstood.
--- End quote ---
Hello Heidi,
Sorry for any confusion, I think it's the continued reference of Adam and Eve partaking of the tree of knowledge as 'choosing self-will' that may be causing any miscommunication.
From the definition of self-will, it seems to be synonymous with carnality or sinful nature. But the 'choosing' of this self-will is what seems to be unscriptural. Here is why I say that:
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope
Paul tells us that creation was made subject to vanity [Gk. 'futility'] not willingly...there was no choice or choosing in the matter.
But maybe we're both essentially meaning the same thing...it's just one of those 'you say tomato, I say tomatoe' kind of things. Let us know if there is anything that else that is being misunderstood.
Marques
hcumbow:
Thank you Arc,
Ray articulates much better than I but if I didn't know what I meant I would never have spent 23 years waiting and finally finding someone who expounds (much better than I ) the truths as I have been taught by the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth. This site houses a great deal of them. I lay in bed one night wishing I was in the garden and praying and all of a sudden multiple scriptures came together to show me some things that astounded me. The serpent subtly tempted Eve to doubt the truth (what was commanded), doubt God, and finally judge for herself by external means (sight). When she partook she would be LIKE God knowing good and evil (Be self reliant, not need to be taught by the very one who Created and sustains everything and who alone can teach).
Then came the result of disobeying the command NOT to eat. The immediate result fear, then hiding (from God, the way and the truth)then blame etc (emotions and actions become chaotic)
Sin is missing the mark which is God and His Will, the RESULTS of sin (Turning from Gods will to self will) are the works of the flesh, all those listed in the bible. So if man is busy doing his own will, he misses the mark of doing God's will and will be busy with determining for himself what is good and evil which produces all the opposite of the fruits of the Spirit. Kind of like a tree, a tree starts from a root, grows a trunk, then branches and then leaves. Sin (turning away from God and His way) results in SELF-Will on the throne, Self-Will on the Throne results in wrong thoughts (not Gods way), wrong thoughts result in wrong deeds and on it goes until the fruit is evident.
I am so grateful we were created in His image and will be made in His likeness. Becoming like someone takes time interaction and learning from the one whom we hope to become like.
hcumbow:
Marques,
I think you are right. We are essentially saying the same thing. God may have destined this to happen but as Ray said, we still make choices. A choice is made when one Listens, processes what is heard (thinks), then takes action. That action resulted from a choice. Were they given the choice? NO, they were commanded DO NOT or ELSE. (But God planned it this way, else how would Jesus have been forordained BEFORE the foundation of the earth..?) There are good choices and bad choices but all choices can teach valuable lessons if we let God teach us. I have made many mistakes and been mistreated many times in my life. Before I learned that evil can teach good, my expectations and reactions were based much differently than now that I know I can learn valuable things that produce fruits of the Spirit. It also brings a sense of peace to know that I am about to learn something wonderful and makes the trial much more bearable when it happens. What did Joseph say: "...you meant it for evil but God meant it for good.... I really love that! :)
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