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[jeetkunejimi]

Hi,
   I'm posting this question because I'm often, as I'm sure most of you are too, told that Christians believe in hell, the trinity, the age of accountability, freewill,tithing, etc,etc, and that that is what a Christian is. I would often in the past reply to such accusers (usually atheists) by saying these are not 'true Christians' upon which then they would have a good gloat at me by relating to me the 'No true Scotsman fallacy' by philosopher Anthony Flew. It goes like this,

Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again." Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing." The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again and this time finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing."
Antony Flew, Thinking About Thinking (1975).

A simpler more relevant example follows:

Preacher: All Christians believe in hell.
Bible truths member: My uncle is a Christian, and he doesn't believe in hell!
Preacher: Well, all true Christians believe in hell.


So how are we to answer such inquisitors when we say that Orthodox Christianity isn't even Christianity without having a 'no true Christian' argument thrown in our faces?  Well...No true Christian believes that God lies or contradicts, they may still at times disobey God's word but they are not deluded into thinking that they are doing God's word when they do so. Therefore those who do blindly teach that God lies and is contradictory cannot be true Christians, even though they think they are doing God's will, they can only be counterfeit and deluded people who think they are Christians. Not only are these deluded people not true Christians, they are not even Christians, but they are our brothers and sisters. You see the matter is not to do with a true 'this' or 'that' assumption but rather defining what a Christian is in the first place.

A Christian believes in and follows to the best of their ability the word of God, believing that God doesn't lie or contradict and that God's only begotten spirit Son Jesus The Christ is the Saviour of the world. If a person claiming to be a Christian cannot confirm their staunch belief in these prior mentioned statements then by reason of scripture alone they cannot be a Christian, just as an atheist cannot be an agnostic. 

The no true Christian argument can be proven via scripture by a true Christian who has the holy spirit working in them, but blinded self-professing Christians cannot see this due to their blindness, further still, and spiritually speaking, an atheist hasn't even evolved a zygomatic process yet with which to house an eye in to see truth. .

[Craig]

So how are we to answer such inquisitors when we say that Orthodox Christianity isn't even Christianity without having a 'no true Christian' argument thrown in our faces?

So who said WE should answer them?  Isn't our light supposed to show others what we are, are not our actions supposed to speak for us?  And doesn't the scripture tell us that God will show us what to say if the time comes? 

Then the LORD said to him, "Who made a person's mouth? And who makes someone deaf or not able to speak? Or who gives a person sight or blindness? It is I, the Lord. Now go! I will help you speak, and I will teach you what to say."

and

“When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you at that time; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.”

It seems to me in the example you cited it doesn't matter what you say, they are just looking to debate and won't pay attention to you anyway.  God does not debate, when He sends someone our way you can be sure He will give us the words and them the ears to hear.  In the meantime we should study and show ourselves approved.

Craig

[margo]

Thank you Craig,

This is exactly what I needed to hear.  Amen

Blessings, Margo

[musicman]

I'm not possitive, but I don't think that the deceived are our brothers and sisters at this time.  Also, whether christian is a scriptural term, the world can invent what ever definitions they like.  I wouldn't be so concerned about whether I'm considered a christian or not. 

[Dave in Tenn]

G5546
Χριστιανός
Christianos
Total KJV Occurrences: 3
christian, 2
Act_26:28, 1Pe_4:16
christians, 1
Act_11:26

Those are the only times the Greek word is used.  You might ask 'What is the scriptural definition of a Christian'?

I reckon a 'true christian' would be what the name implies...one like Christ or one following Christ.  I'd be willing to admit that that is not yet a very apt description of me.  What a blessing it would be for them to understand that 'to be like Him' is why God is creating mankind in the first place.  But most look at their 'christianity' in relation to men and organizations.  And many are more than willing to label others who are affiliated with the 'wrong' men and organizations as 'other-than-Christian', or certainly 'less-Christian-than-me'.  I'm glad to be rid of it.   

[HoneyLamb56]

I guess if I had lived eons ago in an isolated area, no computers, no newspaper etc. and had perhaps one bible (whatever translation) or perhaps no bible; my beliefs would be whatever I read in that translation as there would be no one to correctly interpret it; or maybe what ever I heard that was passed on.  My prayers would be to God to guide me in my daily living, healing etc. thinking that I was a "christian" and living as best I could as I probably wouldn't have had anyone or anything to contradict my beliefs.  Thus I agree that we try to live as "Christ like" as we can and that God will judge accordingly.   

[Marlene]

What, comes to my mind is this. Before, I was old enough to read or understand much, I just knew there was a God who was my Father. I knew, I had a friend who loved me and would never forget me. God, is just there in our mind and heart. We do not need man or even a Bible for that matter.

Then, we grow up and sometimes we remember him and sometimes we forget he is around. To me that is a sad time in our life. If, ever we need him is when we go through our trials in our life or growing up pains.

We then begin to form ideas about him from other people or the church system. Even, now we have to realize that man is still in it to some degree.

Thats, when I like to take myself alone with God. I think of all the promises he makes to us. How, no matter what we go through he never leaves, but we often do. I think about how his mercy endures for ever. I think, how his grace is stronger then my failures. I think, of his LOVE that no one can match.
I think of his long suffering, his peace he gives to the soul. Joy, even in time of trials. Knowing, that there is no hell. That, is by far the most awesome thing I have learned here on this website.  That, God loves the world so much that he could never do a thing like that. Now, if that does not sink in that he will never leave you nothing will.

I know, now that God does not want to make me a better person then I am. I have tried to do that. But, I dwell on what he is and ask him to do the work in me. The truth being all this work that is taking place and changing me into his likeness is his work. I just rest in him and trust he will do it in me. Trying to become like him by myself is frustration and will never happen. I believe, the Bible is a guide fro us. But, that time alone with God is what keeps me going.
Time with our mates or friends is what keeps the relationship going. God, is there 24/7 and if I was stranded all alone he would be there.

Just, knowing that we are all God's children. Even, the most wicked will bow down to him some day in love and adoration. Makes you look at our world in different eyes. For, now we are looking at them in Gods eyes. This also is for those who have been blinded by the lies we had been.

Nothin, will stop God from being the Saviour of the World. What, comfort that brings. I don't worry about being called a christian. The whole world is a Child of God. To me there is no race, gender, or religion. We are all his creations. He owns us. We are all one with him. I believe this kind of thinking will make you into his image. I know, it sure is making me look at others different.

In His Love,
Marlene

[longhorn]

When asked if I am a Christian, I simply say Im a child of God in the process of being conformed into the image of Christ.  I tell them about Ray's site and leave it at that.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

[Roy Martin]

What, comes to my mind is this. Before, I was old enough to read or understand much, I just knew there was a God who was my Father. I knew, I had a friend who loved me and would never forget me. God, is just there in our mind and heart. We do not need man or even a Bible for that matter.

Then, we grow up and sometimes we remember him and sometimes we forget he is around. To me that is a sad time in our life. If, ever we need him is when we go through our trials in our life or growing up pains.

We then begin to form ideas about him from other people or the church system. Even, now we have to realize that man is still in it to some degree.

Thats, when I like to take myself alone with God. I think of all the promises he makes to us. How, no matter what we go through he never leaves, but we often do. I think about how his mercy endures for ever. I think, how his grace is stronger then my failures. I think, of his LOVE that no one can match.
I think of his long suffering, his peace he gives to the soul. Joy, even in time of trials. Knowing, that there is no hell. That, is by far the most awesome thing I have learned here on this website.  That, God loves the world so much that he could never do a thing like that. Now, if that does not sink in that he will never leave you nothing will.

I know, now that God does not want to make me a better person then I am. I have tried to do that. But, I dwell on what he is and ask him to do the work in me. The truth being all this work that is taking place and changing me into his likeness is his work. I just rest in him and trust he will do it in me. Trying to become like him by myself is frustration and will never happen. I believe, the Bible is a guide fro us. But, that time alone with God is what keeps me going.
Time with our mates or friends is what keeps the relationship going. God, is there 24/7 and if I was stranded all alone he would be there.

Just, knowing that we are all God's children. Even, the most wicked will bow down to him some day in love and adoration. Makes you look at our world in different eyes. For, now we are looking at them in Gods eyes. This also is for those who have been blinded by the lies we had been.

Nothin, will stop God from being the Saviour of the World. What, comfort that brings. I don't worry about being called a christian. The whole world is a Child of God. To me there is no race, gender, or religion. We are all his creations. He owns us. We are all one with him. I believe this kind of thinking will make you into his image. I know, it sure is making me look at others different.

In His Love,
Marlene

 Very nice Marlene.
         
Peace
Roy

[onelovedread]

jeetkunejimi:
Here's a question that someone emailed to Ray asking him how he describes himself. His answer is instructive, I believe:


Hi:  I've come upon your web site and have read a few articles, tithing and hellfire, with interest.  I go to an Assembly of God church.
I would like to ask:  Do you describe yourself as a spirit-filled, born-again Christian?  Is Jesus Lord and Savior of your life?   Do you believe in speaking in tongues, healings, etc. with the help of the Holy Spirit?
Just wondering and thank you,
CJB

[Ray Replies]

Dear CJB:
Thank you for your email.
I don't normally describe myself in relation to what I believe. I don't usually use the term "Christian" as I do not believe a tenth of what Christians teach.  Of course, I do tell people that Jesus Christ is my Savior as well as the Savior of the entire world -- most don't like that.  They don't want Christ to be THAT big of a Savior that He would save everyone -- just them and few close friends, I guess.
If anyone has the Spirit of God, then he is born again, as that is what our life is all about -- being born and fashioned into a NEW CREATION as God's achievement by Grace through Faith.
I don't "speak in tongues."  I've never met anyone who does. I've heard a lot of unintelligible gibberish, but I have NEVER heard or even heard of anyone except the early Pentecostal Church who has the God-given gift to preach the gospel in numerous foreign languages of which he has never studied.
May God be with you as you yield your life to His perfect will.
Sincerely,
Ray

I hope this helps a little bit.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

A rose called by any other name is still a rose.  Shakespeare so why argue with anyone ....I like what Craig councils....who says WE have to answer them?

Arc

[Phil3:10]

I quit calling myself a "Christian" several years ago. If you look at the true history of Christianity, it will scare you away from such a damnable heresy.  If Catholicism is Christian, I don't want to have any part of it. True to what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:16-33, there is only one, and this one is just CHRIST.
Christianity is many hundreds of denominations and the belief spectrum is from far left to far right. It is only CHRIST, not a religion, real and not man made traditions, and ONE with GOD THE FATHER. Christianity is no different than all of the other organized denominational institutions of the world.
I want only to be a follower of CHRIST and in the body of JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SAVIOUR OF THE WHOLE WORLD. What a wonderful world this could be if we all could rely only on CHRIST and not on religion.
IN HIM, WHO IS PERFECT,
PHIL3:10

[mharrell08]

Let's all try to move on from this subject...Craig's words resonated well, I think we all can agree on that.

These topics of 'what is a Christian', 'should one call themselves a Christian', 'are we True Christians' only lead to debate.