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[lauriellen]

hi to all:
i feel that i must ask you all for some help....although i have been a so called 'Christian' all my life, i was only lead to Ray's teaching a little over a year ago....at first, i was OVERWHELMED with gladness and thankfulness because of what i learned about Gods love, mercy and plan for the eventual salvation of all mankind...i have marveled at how my eyes have been opened to so many truths that were right there all along, but i could not see or understand....i felt so humbled that God would allow me to know Him more and more...i realize there is still SO MUCH i don't know, and i hunger to have more understanding...
but even while this great thing is going on with me, there is something dark (that i have been trying to suppress) happening at the same time. i have NEVER been one to be depressed, i always tried to look at the positive side of everything, and i was the classic "Christian" that Ray describes, always trying to get God 'off the hook' of being responsible for anything bad that happened. It was somehow easier believing that the 'devil' was responsible for the evil and God only gave us 'good gifts'... But with my new understanding that God is indeed responsible for ALL....i have been stuffing down feelings of anger and deep dression. i have been afraid & ashamed to admit that i even harbored these feelings. How could i feel angry toward my God who has given such hope & love to us? But today, i decided that since God knows how i feel anyway, i may as well admit my sin and deal with it. My anger grows as i look around & see SO MUCH sufferring around me.
Because of my sufferrring, those around me percieve that i am such a STRONG person of faith, because of the way i have conducted myself. I have tried to put on such a FRONT of strength, trust, faith & hope, because i would never want to cast doubt on God in anyone's eyes. And because people think that i am so strong, they bring to me  their problems & sorrows hoping that i can help them through or to learn of my so called 'secret' to being so strong.  I AM NOT STRONG. They don't see when i am on the floor crying out to God all of my doubts and fears & telling Him that i just can't make it through another day...my heart BREAKS daily for the sufferring i see people go through...there is so much evil in this world i just can't stand it sometimes. I just can't help but ask God how He could let this go on...i ask myself as a parent, would i ever put my child through such pain. Couldn't there have been another way?
Has anyone had these feelings and if so, how did you deal with them? I do love God with all my heart, and i do trust Him, i just don't understand Him nor His ways....i feel 'stuck'  until i can get past these feelings and mature in my understanding of God.
any help?
lauriellen

[mharrell08]

I just try to keep my mind on the end of all this wickedness and not place the burden on myself. I think on these 2 passages:

Phil 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Rom 8:24-25  we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

The fulfillment of the hope and glory of God in all and all in God is still to come so we must wait patiently for it...and remain of the faith that it will come to pass. Trust Him...it's the only thing to do.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Deborah-Leigh]

I absolutely relate to your cry lauriellen.

I have experienced much comfort when caused to think of Jesus who in the Garden of Gethsemane   also sweated blood in deep appeal, earnest supplication and desperate urgency before God where He too , like us, felt our distress. We want the evil to pass and to be ended and I, rightly or wrongly, liken the bitterness and anxiety that evil and suffering bring to the experience where Jesus Christ begged the Father to let the cup pass. Three times He implored His Father. Then He suffered persecution of such abominable proportions that any human suffering we go through, I believe, is just a small part of what the perfect Son of God endured.

The point is that God’s Son also felt like asking God to change His mind, make another plan, achieve the objective differently and go about the process in an alternative manner. That, to me is a comfort.  It makes me feel not so alone in asking God to do things differently. It is not pointless to ask God to change as Jesus did the same thing and He knows the Father much better than I do. Jesus asked and He was in the Plan and Purpose and Will of God and His Father kept Him there to always renounce Himself to the Will of His Father. Jesus did not, could not and would not fail or destabilize the Work of God or the events that God had put in place for Him to fulfill.  God MADE Jesus succeed as He shall MAKE us also succeed in our trials and tribulations no matter how bitter the taste and painful the experience.

We cannot change anything and it is okay if we can cry to God our desperate dismay at what we see and feel as He makes a new thing out of all the bad, ugly painful circumstances we are meant to experience. I also want the evil to end. I also want it to be over. Too much is simply just too much. Jesus knows that. Before He went into the too much part of His experience, He sweated blood.  He knew and knows.

God will make things right as only He who is responsible can. We are powerless to change the course of God’s Plan and purpose but we can cry as did Jesus to let the cup pass and subordinate ourselves totally to His care in, His Will be done.

Also we can ask God to give us discernment and appreciation of His Spirit that Comforts in much the same way as He sent His angel to strengthen and encourage His Son in His time of great crisis, need and distress.

Keeping one another in mind thought and prayer also helps our heart’s desire for good to overcome evil.

Remembering that there is a better life in the Kingdom of God that is not vulnerable to evil and has overcome this wicked age lead by our Lord who has overcome the World, also has comforted me in times of peak suffering.

Noticing the little things that are so beautiful and are made by God, also helps sooth huge wounds that comes to us through the Comfort of  His Spirit. God does not let us down.
  
Deb

[lauriellen]

thank you all for your reply....your words have brought me some measure of comfort.....i guess this may be one of those things that i may never 'see' or fully understand in this lifetime, and i must rely on God to give me the 'faith' to accept....
its not that i worry about the evil, cause i KNOW that God will make everything right.....its just that it breaks my heart....

[Ninny]

Lauriellen...
The only thing I will add is that like John said...it's ok to be angry with God...because you may as well be honest with God...He knows every thought and feeling we have and feel. He can see to the very innermost thought we have and He is the only one who can show you the way...I'll be praying for you...we just need to pray for each other that God will give us all the peace that passes understanding!
Love you!
Kathy

[judith collier]

Hi Lauriellen, I used to think that way but not anymore. Call it de-sensitized if you want but as your faith becomes stronger or maybe I should say seasoned the world's problems don't take such a toll. I concentrate in my realm of friends and family. I pray for them. Believe me intercessory prayer is not easy because your heart is in your prayers and you feel for them, crying out to God for the most part is all I can do. Sure, you can support causes and that helps if you know the benefactor has integrity.
If God made evil and He did and made us weak sinners than you must trust God to right all of it. He will. "His thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways are not our ways" Your job is to pray, comfort, visit the sick, the imprisoned, feed the hungry, clothe the naked and keep the faith. If you do this in your little part of the world then you will have done your share. We can do no more except stay close to God and other believers and share. You did this. Any feeling you have had is not unique, we all have had hateful, mean and angry thoughts towards God and others.  Love, Judy

[lauriellen]

thank you again for your replies.....judy, you are so right...i need to take your advice....thanks again,
lauri

[margo]

Hi Lauri,

It sounds like to me you are being made into the very image of the Son.  Amen!  His thoughts become our thoughts.  We can now see how much he loves and hurts for this evil world.  That is why we must experience all this pain as He did.  I can only tell you, it is through all the pain, tribulations and fire in my own life that I can change and know what my Lord felt that day he went to the cross for me.  That keeps my thoughts and eyes on Him.  Just when I think I have had enough pain and tribulations, I must be at perfection now HA HA, not yet the Lord says little more fire.  I just broke my arm this week in 4 places.  At first I knew the Lord would work this for good, and then have friends telling me that I did not deserve this, and that is something I have to fight.  I don't like this pain, but I do know God will use this for His Will.  Amen.  Just know God works in ALL THINGS FOR US.

Love you,
Margo

[G. Driggs]

Thank you for sharing that lauriellen, as the thought of evil has been weighing on my mind lately too. Just to add to all the loving encouragement you already received.

Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the evildoers will be no more; though you look with care where they used to be, they will not be found.

2Th 1:4  We're so proud of you; you're so steady and determined in your faith despite all the hard times that have come down on you. We tell everyone we meet in the churches all about you.
2Th 1:5  All this trouble is a clear sign that God has decided to make you fit for the kingdom. You're suffering now,
2Th 1:6  but justice is on the way. When the Master Jesus appears out of heaven in a blaze of fire with his strong angels, he'll even up the score by settling accounts with those who gave you such a bad time.
2Th 1:7  His coming will be the break we've been waiting for.

Peace, G.Driggs

[RRHinds]

Hi Sis
I know just how you feel. In 2005 I felt the same way. I came under very heavy satanical attack. My Sister was dying (She died in 2008)
both my parents had already gone, my younger brother was and is still a drug addict and lives on the streets of Nottingham England, my other brother only has a quarter of a lung left. To top it all my wife of 27 years decided that she wanted a divorce for no apparent reason, and I was being slandered at work with all sorts of satanic lies. Yes I got very angry at God, I even punched the Bible and threw at the wall in anger. I went seven days and nights without eating drinking or even taking a bath. It was only when I realised that he would do what he wanted anyway and it was for me to find out what I could learn from all this, and that while I was so angry God could not talk to me because I could not hear him, I started opening myself to him again.

You know what the first thing he said to me was. "I love you, for you are my son and I will never fail you" I just collapsed and cried like a baby for hours. I felt God's love fill me up from the bottom of my feet to the very roots of my hair. I learned to concentrate on those around me and to give them and all people true love and not to dwell on what goes on in other worlds or cities. Today I do not dwell on the negative things because I know all is going to work out for the good. I concentrate on giving my love to all I can.

I do not know sis but I sure do Love you. Stay Strong because it is in our weaknesses that he makes us strong.

God Bless.
Roland.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Roland

I appreciate that you share such distressing times the Lord has taken you THROUGH. All evil comes to PASS. We go THROUGH such agonizing experiences that we do not believe we can endure and if fact cannot endure without His Spirit guiding, encouraging and loving us.

You say that

You know what the first thing he said to me was. "I love you,

The distressing circumstances that you describe held a most powerful significance that only the darkness of contrast could inspire to remain in your heart, His words to you, that He loves you. It is good to see those words again. He loves you. He loves me. He loves us.

God can also talk to us right in the epicenter of our pain, past our most intense blindness and into our most deafening deafness. His Love Heals, Restores, Makes us whole and fulfills everything that is pleasing to Him and to His Father our God. We so desperately, pitifully and most vitally need Him.

God love you
Arc

[Kat]

Hi lauri,

I keep in my mind what I believe to be a most profound truth, GOD IS SOVERIGN. When you truly understand this you know that ALL things come from God and you have to accept that evil ultimately come form Him too. That's why He is responsible for all things and will in the end have ALL things turned to good. 

Now as we are in the middle of all this wickedness going on around and to us, it is hard to be objective, because sometimes the pain we feel, physically or emotionally, is very great. It's like we can't see the forest for the tree, or we lose sight of the big picture. I look at this life and this world as the backdrop/experience of evil we all 'need' to know and have, because it will give us the beginning of understanding. Once we 'know' suffering and evil from pain/heartbreak/misery/sadness/hatred etc. we are then able to reeeaaally understand and appreciate love and goodness.

If everything was always happy and good all of our lives and we were brought into the kingdom after death, would we, could we really appreciate that?  Didn't we all receive the truth with such great exuberance because we had been through so much falsehood and even wickedness in the church? The darkness must come first before the light can shine through.

1Pe 2:9  But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

2Co 4:6  For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[soberxp]

Hello Lauriellen,

I have the same feeling just as you, few days ago.

from what I have learned on the Forum and my Experience.I would tell you,we(you and I) are not such STRONG person of faith yet,I understand what's your feeling.not because we don't have faith,cuz we are Weak in heart,losing HOPE,losing Trust in GOD!Believe me!
don't give your sadness for any excuse,Wiped away tears, you can go ahead,donot think this way "god will leave you",he never leave you,cuz god has gave us all his trust for no reason,at this point trust god ,do it n not trust me,okay?

if you still feeling bad,try this,Pray to God:
"Request you who give me your will,and I put my will in your hands! Guide me!Cuz You have pointed out the direction for me!"

P.S: Heb 13:6  so that we confidently say, "THE LORD IS MY HELPER, I WILL NOT BE AFRAID. WHAT WILL MAN DO TO ME?"  (NASB)

mercy, peace and love
soberxp

[daywalker]

hi to all:
i feel that i must ask you all for some help....although i have been a so called 'Christian' all my life, i was only lead to Ray's teaching a little over a year ago....at first, i was OVERWHELMED with gladness and thankfulness because of what i learned about Gods love, mercy and plan for the eventual salvation of all mankind...i have marveled at how my eyes have been opened to so many truths that were right there all along, but i could not see or understand....i felt so humbled that God would allow me to know Him more and more...i realize there is still SO MUCH i don't know, and i hunger to have more understanding...
but even while this great thing is going on with me, there is something dark (that i have been trying to suppress) happening at the same time. i have NEVER been one to be depressed, i always tried to look at the positive side of everything, and i was the classic "Christian" that Ray describes, always trying to get God 'off the hook' of being responsible for anything bad that happened. It was somehow easier believing that the 'devil' was responsible for the evil and God only gave us 'good gifts'... But with my new understanding that God is indeed responsible for ALL....i have been stuffing down feelings of anger and deep dression. i have been afraid & ashamed to admit that i even harbored these feelings. How could i feel angry toward my God who has given such hope & love to us? But today, i decided that since God knows how i feel anyway, i may as well admit my sin and deal with it. My anger grows as i look around & see SO MUCH sufferring around me.
Because of my sufferrring, those around me percieve that i am such a STRONG person of faith, because of the way i have conducted myself. I have tried to put on such a FRONT of strength, trust, faith & hope, because i would never want to cast doubt on God in anyone's eyes. And because people think that i am so strong, they bring to me  their problems & sorrows hoping that i can help them through or to learn of my so called 'secret' to being so strong.  I AM NOT STRONG. They don't see when i am on the floor crying out to God all of my doubts and fears & telling Him that i just can't make it through another day...my heart BREAKS daily for the sufferring i see people go through...there is so much evil in this world i just can't stand it sometimes. I just can't help but ask God how He could let this go on...i ask myself as a parent, would i ever put my child through such pain. Couldn't there have been another way?
Has anyone had these feelings and if so, how did you deal with them? I do love God with all my heart, and i do trust Him, i just don't understand Him nor His ways....i feel 'stuck'  until i can get past these feelings and mature in my understanding of God.
any help?
lauriellen

Hello Lauriellen,

You're not alone.

As someone who has gone [and is currently going] down a similar path, I can understand and emphasize with what you are going through. Truth is these feelings of 'anger' and 'depression' you are feeling in acknowledging God as the Ultimate Cause of all things, good and evil, were already deep inside you all along. Deep down you always knew that God alone is the sovereign entity of the universe and therefore everything begins and ends with Him. But you used religion to shadow that truth, and now that that cloud cover has been removed you are forced to deal with it.

You are going through a spiritual cleansing. This requires 'emptying your closet' of everything that has been crammed in there, and some of that stuff is ugly and smelly... It's okay to be angry with God; He can handle it. He understands why you feel what you feel, and He will deliver you from your dark hour when He has completed the task He is using it to perform in you. The best thing for you is to be open with Him and not attempt to hide it. Besides, as you said, He already knows everything about you anyway.


7 As for me, I look to the LORD for help.
    I wait confidently for God to save me,
      and my God will certainly hear me.
 8 Do not gloat over me, my enemies!
      For though I fall, I will rise again.
   Though I sit in darkness,
      the LORD will be my light.
 9 I will be patient as the LORD punishes me,
      for I have sinned against him.
   But after that, he will take up my case
      and give me justice for all I have suffered from my [Spiritual] enemies.
   The LORD will bring me into the light,
      and I will see his righteousness.

—Micah 7:7-9, New Living Translation


God is for you... Even when it appears He's against you.
God is with you... Even when it appears He's deserted you.

This isn't always easy to believe, but keep believing it anyway. 


Peace.

Daywalker 

[Dave in Tenn]

Like the others, I have been and am where you are.  Some very cool scripture for you:

Gen 32:22-30  That same night Jacob got up, took his two wives, his two concubines, and his eleven children, and crossed the Jabbok River.  After he had sent them across, he also sent across all that he owned, but he stayed behind, alone.

Then a man came and wrestled with him until just before daybreak.  When the man saw that he was not winning the struggle, he hit Jacob on the hip, and it was thrown out of joint.

The man said, "Let me go; daylight is coming."

"I won't, unless you bless me," Jacob answered.
 
"What is your name?" the man asked.

"Jacob," he answered.

The man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob. You have struggled with God and with men, and you have won; so your name will be Israel."

Jacob said, "Now tell me your name."

But he answered, "Why do you want to know my name?" Then he blessed Jacob.

Jacob said, "I have seen God face-to-face, and I am still alive"; so he named the place Peniel.

Jacob is you.  You're sending all your spiritual possessions on ahead while you stay behind to take care of business.  You're wrestling hard against a God who is more determined and able to 'win' than you are.  You're seeing God face to face.  He will win, and you will live.

[Deborah-Leigh]

He will win, and you will live.

He will win, and you will live.

That's worth repeating!

Arc