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Author Topic: gnostic universalism  (Read 6853 times)

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dre91

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gnostic universalism
« on: May 16, 2010, 12:15:18 PM »

Im not stuck on titles or labels. In my opinion ive grown pass that. I was just wondering because we believe in universal restoration, does that make us universalists or christian universalist? I was reading one of rays emails and some one called him a gnostic. I dont know much about gnosticism except it comes from the greek word gnosis which means "to know". I read an article where a guy called himself a gnostic universalist. If we are universalist then thats what we just are.
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arion

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2010, 12:31:28 PM »

Personally, I'm not too hung up on labels.  Others are more than happy to stick them on you depending upon their own biases.  Even the term 'Christian' has conjured up so much false teaching that if I'm pressed I really don't even refer to myself as such.  If I have to use a label I'd either call myself a disciple or a believer and leave the rest to their imagination.   
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Astrapho

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2010, 02:23:36 PM »

Mm yep, when people (who don't know that I'm supposed to be a catholic) ask, I just say that I'm non-denominational... I guess I'm just afraid that if I start calling us something then unscriptural stuff is going to creep in someday.
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Phil3:10

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2010, 03:49:12 PM »

To all,
I have turned completely from the term Christian as I have evidenced so much untruth and hate in this word. I simply say that I am a follower of JESUS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD, AND THE SAVIOUR OF THE WHOLE WORLD. I want to be in HIS BODY as it is only IN HIM that we have life. All praise, honor and glory to HIM who is everything.
In HIM,
Phil3:10
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markn902

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2010, 04:47:52 PM »

I refer to myself as an "independent christian" I didn't really put much thought into that term it just came up in conversation when someone was asking about a denomination or religion or something. I agree with the rest of the people here that say who cares about labels they mean nothing. I will be what I am and people will judge me based on whatever is in their heart. and thats ok with me  ;D
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 05:03:17 PM »

Seems to me any time we 'affiliate' we find ourselves either defending or distancing ourselves from all those pesky other people who claim the same affiliation.

Gal 1:10  For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? or am I striving to please men? if I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.

Servant of Christ?  I'm content to accept the 'new name' He's giving me.  He is God, after all.

Joh 8:31,32  Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

I like being free.  One thing I am free from is theological affiliation.  It's possibly of some value to short-hand an answer like, "I believe in Universal Reconciliation", but, like all theological terms, it's confusing and inadequate.  What 'we' believe doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.  It doesn't even fit on a one-page 'creed'.  Thank the Lord it doesn't.

 

 
 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Linny

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 09:24:20 PM »

Same here. I can't put myself into any box without having to fit that mold. Since I don't fit into any mold, I refer to myself as a Jesus follower.
And like one of our bright members said once that I LOVE and have stolen,
1) I believe in the sovereignty of God and 2) I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.

Yes, the church also thinks they believe this (even though they do not) so I won't get any lip!  :D ;)
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GinaMilan

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 11:31:27 PM »

Maybe this will help a little:

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

TO WHICH CHURCH DO I BELONG

When asked, "Ray, which church do you attend, what denomination do you belong to?" I always give them the same answer as I will now give you. I tell them that I am not a member of, neither do I attend any institutionalized church of men and that includes all the Churches of Christendom.

I am a member of: "The Body of Christ—The Church of the Living God."



And that's all I say.  Well, that and that I'm probably like the baby toe or something.   ;D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 09:02:59 PM by GinaMilan »
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daywalker

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 01:16:36 PM »


Universalism - the theological doctrine that all men will finally be saved or brought back to holiness and God.

To get technical, yes, we all here are 'universalists' because we believe in the salvation of all. However, there are many branches of beliefs within the 'universalist world' that are unscriptural, and many of them we know, and Ray has exposed some of their heresies. Ray is definitely 'not partial' when it comes to exposing blasphemies.  :D

Therefore, as others before me have said, it's better not to give ourselves a 'title'.

If someone asks me what I believe I say "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World". If they ask me if I go to church I say "No. Because unlike them I actually do believe what I just said."

Daywalker  8)


Im not stuck on titles or labels. In my opinion ive grown pass that. I was just wondering because we believe in universal restoration, does that make us universalists or christian universalist? I was reading one of rays emails and some one called him a gnostic. I dont know much about gnosticism except it comes from the greek word gnosis which means "to know". I read an article where a guy called himself a gnostic universalist. If we are universalist then thats what we just are.
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dave

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 02:07:19 PM »

I like that Daywalker.
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Samson

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 02:48:57 PM »

Im not stuck on titles or labels. In my opinion ive grown pass that. I was just wondering because we believe in universal restoration, does that make us universalists or christian universalist? I was reading one of rays emails and some one called him a gnostic. I dont know much about gnosticism except it comes from the greek word gnosis which means "to know". I read an article where a guy called himself a gnostic universalist. If we are universalist then thats what we just are.

Hi Micah,

              Your Thread compelled me to make some brief comments. I don't have too much time to devote to this, so my response may seem somewhat limited, as I'm currently working on a New Thread which is taking me a couple of weeks. Anyway, Universalism was the prevailing Doctrine for the First 4-5 Centuries and "Saint" Augustine accompanied by Emperor Justinian were the main villians in stamping it out as a Mainline Orthodox teaching.

              Generally, I consider myself a Christian Universalist, but with qualifying considerations to any that might have questions as to my beliefs. Ray has mentioned that He didn't like going by that label because alot of their "Understandings" of Being Saved, Chastisement(GK-Kolasin), Judgement(GK-Krino-Krisis, Heb-Misphat), Length of the Ages(Aions) and their interpretations of Eschatology(Study of Last Days) are Heretical. For Instance: Being Saved is a process that takes time with much suffering, God's Gehenna Spiritual Fire is meant for God's Chosen Elect in this Lifetime and is Spiritual with the purpose of correcting, burning the Carnal Garbage from those receiving it, in this Lifetime.

             The only thing that we(Bible Truths) fully agree on with other Christian Universalist Groups is that everyone will eventually be saved, but the process is certainly different from the standpoint of these other Sites. Some Universalist groups believe in " The Immortality(GK-Athanasia) of the Soul " like Origen did, Some believe that God is a Trinity, Some believe that the God the Father is Jehovah(No Man has seen God at any time or heard His voice). Some believe that the Creative Days were 24 hour days, Some believe that the Correction or Chastisement that Mankind receives for Their benefit is Physically Literally.  Ray has stated: " Nobody is Saved Anyway." They tend to give the impression that the Salvation of All is automatic and you can do anything you want without any consequences or Accountability for ones actions. God is responsible for everything, but Humans are still accountable for their actions, because they desired to commit them.

             Please don't anyone ask me about the the difference between "Responsibility" and "Accountability,"  ;D, there are many Past Threads on this Forum explaining this and Ray thoroughly goes over this in His Freewill Series. Sorry if I didn't adequately answer your question, but a Label(Universalist, Christian, Unitarian,etc,etc) is just a Label. I believe God is using Ray as the best possible channel of accurate Truth regarding representing Universalism that I know of and I did much research on Universalism prior to joining this Forum.

                Kind Regards and Hope this helps, Samson.
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gmik

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Re: gnostic universalism
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2010, 02:51:46 PM »

Very interesting thread.

I try to avoid curious questions from past "churchy" friends.  You know they "don't get it" so why bother?  Depending on who it is and my relationship to them I may answer in different ways.

You know that look of shock on their face when you say "No, I don't attend any church". Ha....so I add that I love Jesus and know He is God's son and try to leave it at that.

Most won't persue after that.  But for those that do...I say I have devotionals daily, visit regularly an awesome website, and have been to some amazing conferences.  That usually stops it. (I'd like to say "mind your own business" ;D)
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