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Author Topic: lake of fire  (Read 10931 times)

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dave

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lake of fire
« on: May 17, 2010, 11:39:09 PM »

Got this off  a site somewhere any thoughts?

According to the laws of language you can't make the explanation of a figure of speech another figure of speech. Therefore the lake of fire, being death, death cannot now be re-defined as if it is a figure of speech standing for something else such as "purification/refinement."

There is no purification or refinement in unconscious death. There is no testing in death. Death is death and death is the absence of life.

Only when God uses fire in a figurative way does it stand for something other than fire. For instance when God says He is revining the dross out of Israel while they are in the crucible we then know that "crucible" stands for refinement.

But when fire, i.e., the lake of fire is said to be death then that is exactly what it is; not refinement, not purification.
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Stacey

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2010, 11:43:10 PM »

Forget that site  :)
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Stacey

mharrell08

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 12:08:51 AM »

We have a no teaching policy as well as no teaching links allowed. Please do not attempt to circumvent these rules by copying outside teaching onto a thread.
The forum is not to discuss outside teaching but to discuss the articles on bible-truths.com
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 06:14:13 AM »

Got this off  a site somewhere any thoughts?

According to the laws of language ............

Hi micah7:9

Here are some thoughts.  :)

For the sound minded understanding of the laws of language  :D  we have the LOF 1 8)

BIBLICAL FIGURES OF SPEECH

Here are some of the fully substantiated figures of language used in Scripture. I borrowed many of these examples from an appendix in the back of The Concordant Literal New Testament.

We will begin with FIGURES OF LIKENESS which include:

similes (when something is like, or as something else, it is a simile rather than a metaphor)
metaphors (where one thing is said to actually be something else) as in, "all life is grass" I Pet. 1:24. Therefore, the subject of this paper IS a metaphor and CANNOT be literal: John says, "...the lake of fire, This IS the second death" (Rev. 20:14), and "...the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which IS the second death" (Rev. 21:8)
implications
parables (there are many, the shortest one being, "Physician, heal Thyself" Luke 4:23)
allegories (as in the two women standing for two covenants, Gal. 4:22-28)
visions (as in a sheet let down from heaven, Acts 10:11-16)
signs (as in the sign of Jonah the prophet, Matt. 12:39)
types (as in Adam corresponding with Christ, Rom. 5:12-21)
shadows (as in the law being a shadow of good things to come, Heb. 10:1)
examples (as in the tabernacle vessels being examples of what is in heaven , Heb. 9:23)
images (as Christ is the image of God, Col. 1:15)
impersonations or personifications (where things are spoken of as persons)
condescension's (as where God takes on human attributes)
diminutives (as in "little women, heaped with sins" II Tim. 3:6)
There are FIGURES OF ASSOCIATION which include:

association or metonymy's
appellations (as when a quality or office is used instead of a proper name, as in "Son of Mankind" instead of saying Jesus Christ)
compound associations (as "the word of the cross" I Cor. 1:18, which has to do with Christ’s shameful and agonizing death)
near associations (as in a phrase that is partly literal, "Then went out to Him Jerusalem [that is the people of Jerusalem]", Matt. 3:5)
retention's (this one is too complicated to explain, but I’ll give you an example, "the tablets of the heart" II Cor. 3:3)
circumlocutions or periphrasis (what is "circumlocution"? Well, it’s a descriptive phrase in place of a name in order to emphasize the association. Examples, "the product of the grapevine [though not named he natural man is, wine]" Matt. 26:29, "the city of David [though not named is, Bethlehem]" Luke 2:11,
enigmas, and symbols (where a known object or something else is used to typify something else, or even an intangible quality such as love, power, beauty, etc.)


The language of the Kingdom of God requires the Spirit of God. The language of the Spirit of God is Truth.  


1Co 2:14  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Jer 17:5  Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.



Arc
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 06:34:58 AM by Arcturus »
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dave

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 05:07:06 PM »

I apolgize for the post, I made a mistake. I did not and do not accept its validity. I read the LOF
series, I print it off when I can afford the ink(there long).  ??? ???
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 05:47:54 PM »

I apolgize for the post, I made a mistake. I did not and do not accept its validity. I read the LOF
series, I print it off when I can afford the ink(there long).  ??? ???

We all have to learn to see by contrast  :D :) It is part of the learning process.  :)

Arc
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Vangie

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2010, 09:03:49 PM »

Thanks for sharing John--nice to get to know more about you through this unexpected avenue!
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Stacey

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 11:53:16 PM »

Quote
I apolgize for the post, I made a mistake. I did not and do not accept its validity. I read the LOF
series, I print it off when I can afford the ink(there long).   

Way to go micah7:9! You're right about needing a lot of ink to print out the LOF series, can't remember how much it took when I printed it out but it sure ain't just a little bit!  :)
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Stacey

aqrinc

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2010, 12:15:07 AM »

Quote
Then I read Ray's teaching on free will / total sovereignty of God truths.  Wow!  That was a game changer.  A paradigm shift as the philosophers say.  Everything came together.  The Spirit of God brought it all together and now I understand.

God and His Spirit is the main thing, the only thing.  Once you are tied into it, follow wherever It goes and leads you.  Never follow or believe what any man or any other spirit has to say or teach about anything.

John from Kentucky,

That is a mouthfull, but one that i can agree with, since Scripture says this very thing.

Rom 3:1-4 (MKJV)
1  Then what is the superiority of the Jew? Or what is the profit of circumcision?
2  Much, by every way! Chiefly, indeed, because they were entrusted with the oracles of God.

3  For what? If some did not believe, will not their unbelief nullify the faith of God?
4  Let it not be! But let God be true, and every man a liar; as it is written, "That You might be justified in Your sayings, and will overcome when You are judged."

It is well if one reads the rest of this chapter also.

george :).

 
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arion

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 10:47:07 AM »

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I'd love to get a hard copy of the LOF series myself.  Sometimes the computer screen gets a little hard on the eyes and a hard copy would allow use of a hi-lighter and room for notes.  I don't have the room for a printer and really don't want to buy one at this point.  It would be nice if somehow some printed copies could be available for purchase through the forum.  It might help bring in a few dollars for operations as well.  I would be more than happy to donate towards that cause.
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mharrell08

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 10:50:37 AM »

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I'd love to get a hard copy of the LOF series myself.  Sometimes the computer screen gets a little hard on the eyes and a hard copy would allow use of a hi-lighter and room for notes.  I don't have the room for a printer and really don't want to buy one at this point.  It would be nice if somehow some printed copies could be available for purchase through the forum.  It might help bring in a few dollars for operations as well.  I would be more than happy to donate towards that cause.


Send me a PM, I'll mail you a hard copy...I'll take care of postage.
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mharrell08

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2010, 11:24:27 AM »

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I'd love to get a hard copy of the LOF series myself.  Sometimes the computer screen gets a little hard on the eyes and a hard copy would allow use of a hi-lighter and room for notes.  I don't have the room for a printer and really don't want to buy one at this point.  It would be nice if somehow some printed copies could be available for purchase through the forum.  It might help bring in a few dollars for operations as well.  I would be more than happy to donate towards that cause.


Send me a PM, I'll mail you a hard copy...I'll take care of postage.


Looks like I may need to clear up my comments so to avoid any confusion. I do not have any paperback form of the LOF series but was simply offering to print out the series for Arion. He doesn't have a printer so I thought it would be nice to get it printed out for him.

However, the LOF series is a LOT of pages. This would be very tough for me to do for everyone. But what I can do is place the LOF series in Word document form, email the installments to members, and then each of you could have a Staples, Office Depot, or other retailer make a colored copy. Again, because of the many pages the LOF series contains, I would recommend using a retailer to actually print the pages.

I will begin to place the installments onto Word document form so if you would like for me to email you the LOF series in document form, please PM your email address. If you do not currently have Microsoft Word, you can use the free software 'OpenOffice' to open and manage the files. OpenOffice can be found here (http://www.openoffice.org/), it's free and is compatible with all the Microsoft Office formats (word, excel spreadsheet, Powerpoint, etc.)

Hope this is clear for everyone but if not, please send me a PM.


Thanks,

Marques
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Ninny

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2010, 11:54:32 AM »

Marques,
As one who has printed off every page of everything on the BT website I can honestly say...that is mighty sweet of you to do this for anyone who can't print it out..you're ok, dude!!  :D
Kathy ;)
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mharrell08

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2010, 01:00:26 PM »

Why doesn't everybody just use a flash drive?  I have all of the LOF articles and most all of Ray's other major papers on a little flash drive which I carry around on my key chain.


That can work as well...but I think Arion's point was he wanted a physical copy that he could read in hand, possibly with bigger font for ease of reading, and the ability to highlight & make notes. One could place all the LOF installments in document form on a flash drive and take to a retailer to have them print out in color...whatever works for them.
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Stacey

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2010, 01:49:40 PM »

Why doesn't everybody just use a flash drive?  I have all of the LOF articles and most all of Ray's other major papers on a little flash drive which I carry around on my key chain.

For me, its easier on the eye's to read it on paper.
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Stacey

Dave in Tenn

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2010, 08:49:52 PM »

It's also easier to leave and come back to a printed copy.  I can't read for long without getting up, walking around, and preaching to myself.   :D  It's easy to loose your place on the computer screen after all that.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Roy Martin

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2010, 09:16:31 AM »

It's also easier to leave and come back to a printed copy.  I can't read for long without getting up, walking around, and preaching to myself.   :D  It's easy to loose your place on the computer screen after all that.

That's funny Dave. I can see you doing that, getting up, walking around, and preaching to yourself. ;D
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Beloved

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2010, 10:35:43 PM »

I have already done sort of a combination I have all the LOF in Word document form also all of his other papers.

IN Word I enlarge the font to giant size and save it. ....then as I read ....I can highlight  in different colors....I also Bold some words and even enlarge the font for emphasis. I  even Change the font color. I do combination of all three sometimes

When I write my own comments or add scriptures I use the blue font . I also correct typo's and then use the italic on these. I actually have two versions the original and my crazy rainbow version that is consantly morphing

When I stop reading, or periodically I make sure to save the document. I then  run a dashed line or stars ***********************************
across the page at the point where I stopped, then when I go back to it, I can run down the page until I find it. When I restart reading I remove the dashed line.  Each time I read the article I make changes and save.

A thumb drive is great. It allows me to move from one computer to another.  :D :D :D   But I also have a paper version....all in Binders....I actually find that I use the files in my documents or thumb drive version a lot more now.

I find it the best way to share especially with older folks ...I will always give a copy to people where the font has been enlarged so it more comfortable for them to read. I also like the paragraphs to break more evenly into smaller digestable portions. That is what I really like about word documents  Most people do not want to print such volumes.

Thanks for reminding me I need to make sure I have recently saved the newest versions as well as the standard original version in Word and have it in more than one place.

These things are more valuable to me then my medical school diploma etc are. Even these latter things are in the process of being scanned and saved digitally. I have a forest of paper to do this too.

beloved
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dave

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2010, 02:35:54 AM »

cool, thanks
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Extol

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Re: lake of fire
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2010, 11:23:10 PM »

Forget that site  :)

LOL excellent reply Stacey!  :D
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