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Why did Jesus say "why do you call me good?"
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: GinaMilan on May 26, 2010, 09:50:37 AM ---I'm still studying these out, so your patience and correction are appreciated. Hopefully what I say below doesn't sound as though it contradicts what Marques pointed out, above:
"This simple word 'good' was in reference to all omnipotence, glory, and honor (up to and including immortality), which Christ divested Himself of in order to die. Ray goes over this and much more detail, though from a slightly different angle, in his 2009 Conference study 'Is Jesus God?'"
Source http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99625.html#msg99625
Okay, his is how it sounds to me:
Jesus was saying to the man, "Why do you call me "good" when you don't even know what 'good' (God) is/does, and I can prove it to you: Go sell all you possess and give your money (the thing that rules you) to the poor." Jesus [who is God in the flesh] comes to serve, not to be served. But "service to others" by "emptying" himself was not "good" in the ruler's vocab. (I'm not judging.)
I know that Jesus emptied Himself in order that He could die (because God can't die); however, Ray points out these things in the 2009 Mobile Conference:
"God is a Savior, but so is Jesus. How is He a Savior? It’s one of those many things that God possesses that He gave to the Son. Everything that God has He gave to the Son. That’s how Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him and they are ONE. One person? No. One what? One God? YES!
Mr. Buzzard says, “they’re one unified spirit; they’re one in spirit.” Excuse me, what is God? SPIRIT. I and My Father are one spirit? “God IS spirit” (John 4:24). I and My Father are ONE GOD. Can two individuals be one individual? No. Can two individuals be one God? Yes. Yes, they can."
“GOD IS SPIRIT” (John 4:24)
“I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE” - ONE WHAT? One GOD or One SPIRIT? Excuse me!! ‘GOD IS SPIRIT” (John 4:24)!!
How many “Gods” are there? ONE
How many Gods does Jesus AND His Father make? ONE
Source: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Worship.mp3 - audio 1 Mobile Conference 2009
I realize Jesus is very humble, and doesn't take credit for the things that God does through Him ("I can of my own self do nothing"), but Jesus did say "I and My Father are One; He didn't say will again be One [God], or were at one time before I emptied Myself One [God].
I'm beginning to view what Jesus said to the ruler as being an examination rather than a revelation of Who God is when Jesus said, "Why do you call Me good? One is good, that is God." I believe the Father simply had no desire to reveal Jesus as God to the rich young ruler, since the ruler had no desire to know what good really is.
I love studying with you all. Thank you again for your patience!!
--- End quote ---
And one other point to keep in mind is that 'God' is not a name, but rather a title. This title, and all its power and glory, is what Paul tells us that Jesus emptied or divested Himself of [Phil 2:6-8]. That is why the Lord prays that the Father restore Him to the glory that He once had [John 17:5]. To 'once had' something implies that He did not have it at this time.
--- Quote from: GinaMilan on May 26, 2010, 09:50:37 AM ---I realize Jesus is very humble, and doesn't take credit for the things that God does through Him ("I can of my own self do nothing"), but Jesus did say "I and My Father are One; He didn't say will again be One [God], or were at one time before I emptied Myself One [God].
--- End quote ---
Jesus did not need say these things in these exact words. He and His apostles state them in other places, throughout the NT. We are told that Jesus was made 'a little lower than angels' [Heb 2:9], that He emptied/divested Himself [Phil 2:6-8], that all power in heaven & earth was 'given' back to Him [John 17:5, Matt 28:18].
As I said earlier, Jesus 'gave up' all omnipotence to be made into a man who could die. As the apostles tell us, 'all things consist by Him' [Col 1:17]. If, as God while He was flesh, all things consisted by Him, how would they consist when He died? All things continued to consist by His Father and this sovereign power was 'given' back to Jesus in His resurrection [again Matt 28:18].
Hope this helps,
Marques
Deborah-Leigh:
Like Father, like Son! 8)
Jesus is like His Father in All Ways yet He is NOT His Father.
I think you are right about the fact that Jesus did not give the man the understanding required to obey, see or hear or follow Him.
Luk 19:42 "O that at this time thou hadst known--yes even thou--what makes peace possible! But now it is hid from thine eyes.
And the man went away sorrowful after hearing that he lacked one thing which was the Spirit of Christ to make him able to see, know and understand, obey and follow. It was not given to him. Not then anyway.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. :)
Arc
GinaMilan:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on May 26, 2010, 12:49:26 PM ---Like Father, like Son! 8)
Jesus is like His Father in All Ways yet He is NOT His Father.
Arc
--- End quote ---
Righty-O, Arc. Jesus is definitely not His [own] Father. I hope it doesn't appear to anyone that I was saying that.
And still, one of Jesus' titles is "Father":
(Isaiah 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
I'm guessing the "shall be called" all these titles apply to Him in His present state of glory and not in His earthly ministry? (Have I just completely hijacked this thread?)
Thanks!
GinaMilan:
(Again, I hope I haven't hijacked this thread.)
Hi, Marques
You were saying how He
--- Quote ---emptied/divested Himself [Phil 2:6-8], that all power in heaven & earth was 'given' back to Him [John 17:5, Matt 28:18].
As I said earlier, Jesus 'gave up' all omnipotence to be made into a man who could die. As the apostles tell us, 'all things consist by Him' [Col 1:17]. If, as God while He was flesh, all things consisted by Him, how would they consist when He died? All things continued to consist by His Father and this sovereign power was 'given' back to Jesus in His resurrection [again Matt 28:18].
--- End quote ---
Right -- God's a title and Jesus emptied Himself of all His omnipotence (i.e., power in heaven and earth) to be made a man/flesh. Got it.
And now I just noticed something I never noticed before in John 17:5. (I'm really hesitant to say what I'm thinking. It's just a thought. I'm not here to cause anyone to stumble.) It says:
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
I automatically presumed that Jesus emptied Himself of all power and glory in the moments directly preceeding His being sent, His literal conception, right before He became "flesh." But now that I've taken another look, "that I had with thee before the world" sounds like He emptied Himself way before that. (Maybe "world" is a mistranslation? I have to check a Strong's.)
Thanks for your ongoing patience and help with this verse, Marques.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: GinaMilan on May 26, 2010, 03:54:58 PM ---And now I just noticed something I never noticed before in John 17:5. (I'm really hesitant to say what I'm thinking. It's just a thought. I'm not here to cause anyone to stumble.) It says:
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
I automatically presumed that Jesus emptied Himself of all power and glory in the moments directly preceeding His being sent, His literal conception, right before He became "flesh." But now that I've taken another look, "that I had with thee before the world" sounds like He emptied Himself way before that. (Maybe "world" is a mistranslation? I have to check a Strong's.)
Thanks for your ongoing patience and help with this verse, Marques.
--- End quote ---
No worries Gina, this has been a fruitful discussion I believe...not one of strife that the forum has had in past threads.
Jesus prayed to the Father to be restored with the glory which He had before the world was. But He does not say the glory that He 'only' had before the world was. The glory that Jesus speaks of was given to Him, by the Father, before the world was. And by this glory and power Jesus created all things:
Eph 3:8-9 Unto me [Paul], who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
Col 1:16-17 For by Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Remember, the only reason Jesus voluntarily gave up all that was given to Him by the Father was for the express purpose of being able to die:
Phil 2:8 being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross
Heb 2:9 we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death
Hope this helps,
Marques
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