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Author Topic: Death?  (Read 3310 times)

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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Death?
« on: July 09, 2006, 08:30:55 PM »

Quote
"And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people" (Gen 25:17, KJV).

What do you think?
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 01:19:14 AM »

This is an excellent question! :)

Gen 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people

First off, I believe that Ghost and Spirit are synonymous in this context and by my understanding of the scripture below, Ishmael's life spirit returned to God. I do not believe that Ishmael's spirit was an entity, rather a life giving force.

      Ecc 12:7
  • Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

As for "....and was gathered unto his people" I feel this means exactly that. He was gatherup and returned to his people for burial.

I would be very interested hearing anyone else's take on this. I am willing and here to learn?

Love to all,

Darren
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 01:22:41 AM »

This is an excellent question! :)

Gen 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people

First off, I believe that Ghost and Spirit are synonymous in this context and by my understanding of the scripture below, Ishmael's life spirit returned to God. I do not believe that Ishmael's spirit was an entity, rather a life giving force.

      Ecc 12:7
  • Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

As for "....and was gathered unto his people" I feel this means exactly that. He was gatherup and returned to his people for burial.

I would be very interested hearing anyone else's take on this. I am willing and here to learn?

Love to all,

Darren

I understand what happened to his "ghost." The gathered unto his people part is what some people use for proof of an afterlife, which is why I asked.
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MG

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 06:43:24 AM »

This scripture doesn't seem to use gathered in that way. It looks like they left Aaron buried on the mountain alone.


Numbers 20

23And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in mount Hor, by the coast of the land of Edom, saying,

 24Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.

 25Take Aaron and Eleazar his son, and bring them up unto mount Hor:

 26And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered unto his people, and shall die there.

 27And Moses did as the LORD commanded: and they went up into mount Hor in the sight of all the congregation.

 28And Moses stripped Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son; and Aaron died there in the top of the mount: and Moses and Eleazar came down from the mount.
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MG

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 06:55:42 AM »

Here's one from Job

Job 14

 7For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

 8Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;

 9Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

 10But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

 11As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2006, 11:57:28 AM »

This scripture doesn't seem to use gathered in that way. It looks like they left Aaron buried on the mountain alone.


Numbers 20

23And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in mount Hor, by the coast of the land of Edom, saying,

 24Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.

 25Take Aaron and Eleazar his son, and bring them up unto mount Hor:

 26And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered unto his people, and shall die there.

 27And Moses did as the LORD commanded: and they went up into mount Hor in the sight of all the congregation.

 28And Moses stripped Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son; and Aaron died there in the top of the mount: and Moses and Eleazar came down from the mount.


Weird. Then what does it mean?
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 12:25:52 PM »

Perhaps this will help:

Num 20:29
  • And when all the congregation saw that Aaron was dead, they mourned for Aaron thirty days, [even] all the house of Israel.


Were the congregation on top of the mount? I don't think so, because Moses and Eleazar came off the mount in vs 28.

So perhaps Aaron was brought off the mount, even though the text does nor explicitly state such.

Could "gathered unto his people" be an analogy for being buried, and returning to dust.

Ecc 12:7
  • Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Just my thoughts :)

With Love,

Darren
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knuckle

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 11:12:53 PM »

Hi all-----------
        we better look at Moses' death

Deu 32:50  And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and BE GATHERED UNTO THY PEOPLE; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:

Deu 34:5  So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6  And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.


Moses didn't have a funeral per say-----yet he was gatered unto his people

much love---------knuckle
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2006, 11:44:56 PM »

Hi all-----------
        we better look at Moses' death

Deu 32:50  And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and BE GATHERED UNTO THY PEOPLE; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:

Deu 34:5  So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6  And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.


Moses didn't have a funeral per say-----yet he was gatered unto his people

much love---------knuckle


Knuckle, what do you think of the following: "gathered unto his people" be an analogy for being buried, and returning to dust.

It would seem that each had at least this in common, for where else, if not to dust were his people.

I might be off track here, but I really believe that this was a figure of speech. For surely that is where they all went. :)

Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
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knuckle

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2006, 12:22:24 AM »

Hi Yellowstone--------------

Gen 49:10  The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

I think that it has something to do with transgression and the penalty for it.I haven't figured it all out yet but folks die and are gathered unto thier people but when Christ comes folks are gathered unto Him.Dust, the grave,sleep they all seem to be where dead folks are until the ressurection.The "to thy people" idea seems to denote that folks weren't afraid of death in Moses' time.It almost reads like God killed Aaron and Moses up on those mountains but they went peacefully.Like they understood that it was just sleep.My great uncle was a very devout man.At the time of his death he had all the men gather around his death bed.He told them he was going to show them how a rightous man dies.He told them he loved them said a prayer closed his eyes and he was gone.This is really starting me to think......


much love----------knuckle
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2006, 09:56:09 PM »

Joseph's bones were dug up so he could be buried with his people in his own land.  They didn't want to leave his shell in Egypt.  I believe that is all that it means....being buried near your own family on your own land.
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prarrydog

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2006, 12:00:47 AM »

H622
אסף
'âsaph
aw-saf'
A primitive root; to gather for any purpose; hence to receive, take away, that is, remove (destroy, leave behind, put up, restore, etc.): - assemble, bring, consume, destroy, fetch, gather (in, together, up again), X generally, get (him), lose, put all together, receive, recover [another from leprosy], (be) rereward, X surely, take (away, into, up), X utterly, withdraw.


    Hmmmmm.

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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: Death?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2006, 12:58:36 AM »

Hello Night,

There is a simple principle that will help us as we study the scriptures, If something in scriptural, and true, then nothing in scripture can or will contradict that scripture.

That by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[Matt 18:16]

For example:

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave,[Sheol] whither thou goest. [ Ecc 9:10] 

Second witness:

 Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 

If these scriptures be true, then nothing can or will contradict them...

Hope this helps

Chris R
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