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Cause of the Physical and Spiritual

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judith collier:
Maybe someone could direct me to a writing of Ray's if there is one on this subject. O.K. If God is the catalyst of the cause behind all things physical and spiritual then he knows what will happen. I believe this. Now, these earth shattering happenings, the narural ones are bothering me. Man made I understand. It's the natural I am having trouble with.
If for say hurricanes wiped out thousands of people and they have, then God is the original cause, right? Then God WANTED this to happen or He would never had created it in the first place?? Nobody can dare say He can't control His creation. My mind cannot wrap around these seemingly opposing views of God.
It isn't like we sinning machines took the ball and ran with it and created a mess but rather God is ENTIRELY responsible for the natural. God wanted thousands to die which is ok with me if this is true, I mean He is God. Is this just something we will never understand or do we give any importance to the reasons people come up with why God would create this in the first place??
Judy
 

Kat:

Hi Judy,

One way to think about it, is that everybody is going to die one way are the other. Now I know that a traumatic death is not something to be desired, but we know that most are not going to die a peaceful death while sleeping. Is it the actual cessation of so many lives at once, in one of these natural disasters, that is so troubling?

We know we all must die, that is how things are set to be at this time and God has created numerous ways for that to happen. But do understand God has also made it so the human body can take only so much, we would either pass out or we will die and have no more misery. God is merciful and has made us so that there is a limit to what any human can suffer. So He is NOT like what the Christian church teach, a God who will send most to a torturous hell of pain to suffer for ETERNITY! That is what is so hard for me to understand, that people believe, even feel some deserve THAT. Just some of my thoughts on how I think on this that I thought I would share.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

lauriellen:
hi judy,
i have been pondering the same subject ever since someone introduced me to the doctrine of 'open theism'....they basically believe God knows 'some' of what is in the future, but leaves much of the future 'open' to many different possibilities, therefore, the 'whole' future isn't knowable, even for God....which i think is just a bunch of crap....(sorry :-[).....but after having a long discussion with this person, their main problem is accepting the fact that God is INDEED responsible for all......i must confess, although i know it is true, that God IS working ALL, i still find it hard to reconcile in my mind a 'loving' God with all the sufferring i see around me....i know that it may be impossible for me to fully grasp with my human-carnal mind....God's thinking is so far above ours, i fully trust in Him that it is all for the good, it is all necessary, it all has a purpose. i think we must walk by 'faith' not by sight....we can't trust what we physically see, feel or hear, we must keep our 'spiritual eyes' & 'spiritual ears' & spiritual hearts open only to God.

aqrinc:

Hi Judy,

Based on Scripture, GOD Is The Causer of everything; funny you bring up this subject. I was discussing this very thing with my Mom today, (JW) she says GOD Did not make anything evil. Well If GOD made everything through Jesus Christ, and there is nothing made that was not made by HIM.

From our perspective it is horrible, but our perspective is looking up out of a mud hole; GOD'S Perspective Is growing up and training sons and daughters, and HE Is The Expert, not us by a long stretch. So using The Faith Given to us and proving that we trust HIM even to the death, is how we can start to understand this whole thing.

Joh 1:1-5 (CLV)
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. "
2 This was in the beginning toward God.

3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being."
4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

5 And the light is appearing in the darkness, and the darkness grasped it not."

Those Scriptures above claim everything was made By GOD, through Christ Jesus, do we believe man or Scripture.

Rom 3:1-7 (GNB)
1  Do the Jews then have any advantage over the Gentiles? Or is there any value in being circumcised?
2  Much, indeed, in every way! In the first place, God trusted his message to the Jews.

3  But what if some of them were not faithful? Does this mean that God will not be faithful?
4  Certainly not! God must be true, even though all human beings are liars. As the scripture says, "You must be shown to be right when you speak; you must win your case when you are being tried."

5  But what if our doing wrong serves to show up more clearly God's doing right? Can we say that God does wrong when he punishes us? (This would be the natural question to ask.)

6  By no means! If God is not just, how can he judge the world?
7  But what if my untruth serves God's glory by making his truth stand out more clearly? Why should I still be condemned as a sinner?

george :).

GinaMilan:
Hi, Judy

Kat and George  and lauriellen gave great replies.  I haven't got much else to add but I thought of Job.  I was totally fascinated that it is God who pointed out Job to Satan.  

It was God who put Satan in the Garden of Eden.  Did the same thing happen with Eve that happened with Job?  (So, have you considered my servant, Eve?  "Does she fear God for nothing?")

And remember what happened after all the blows came down and God got in Job's face?

Job: 42


 1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

 2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

 3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

 4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.


And do you remember how Ray said something to the effect that it wasn't until he really had nothing else to repent of that he knew of (repentance is also a gift of God) that God began to open his eyes to these spiritual truths?

So then I look and see what Job says:



 5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine [spiritual] eye seeth thee. (In other words, Job's saying, "Wow, before any of those horrible things happened to me, I'd really only heard of You, but now I see You!"

 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

And of course we recall how the Lord caused Job to pray for his, uh, "comforters," and blessed Job more in the end.

James 5: 11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

And yet it is God Who will make you endure.  Did God bring us this far just to leave us now?  I don't think so.  I believe that the end of the Lord is very pitiful and tender mercy, but man when we're caught up in the thick of it, it's terrifying.  Well, it sure makes the power and love and mercy of God stand out in contrast in the end, doesn't it?

I hope that helps a little, my sister (the joint in the knuckle of the toe that is me).   ;D

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