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23 Minutes in Hell article posted
dogcombat:
--- Quote ---Ironically, reading Ray's rebuttal makes me wanna read the book! I mean, it sounds so utterly ridiculous, yet entertaining at the same time! I can't help but laugh hysterically at some of the nonsense quotes from this guy's book! I gotta see them for myself! Grin
But in all seriousness, the sad part is that many people have purchased this book [making this fraudulent heretic rich!] and many of those who purchased and read it, actually believe it! Including Pastors and Theologians with college degrees!!! Cry
--- End quote ---
Actually dw, I don't think the folks actually read the book. Like so many detractors who email Ray with their god AWFUL distortions of his papers. When pressed they say the usual CYA stuff like "well I glanced at", "I skimmed over" but never actually R-E-A-D-I-N-G it.
Though Ray called this thing "the most poorly written, poorly researched, and the absolute worst scholarship that I have ever read." He does a disservice to use the word scholarship, this farce doesn't even come close to being called such. Having said that, we know that God's purpose is being fufilled with "books" like this, as Paul noted in Romans 1
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
O Father, I pray that you reveal more of your incorruptible truths to those whom you have lead to read the truths about this fiction which you have blessed Brother Ray Smith to present in spite of his own discomforts. We learned more and more, that your Grace is sufficient to help him and ourselves endure. May we learn to embrace our trials, sufferings, and fears, so that, by the presence of your son Jesus, we can overcome them. Teach us to be merciful to those like Bill Weise, whom you have blinded. For we were once blind to a lot of your truths such as this one. In the name of Jesus the Christ I pray, Amen.
Ches
arion:
Well, being firmly in the camp of the ET's for a number of years it's easy to understand why they buy into it and why the reject the universal salvation that Christ purchased on the cross for all his creation. I was taught about hell as a young believer and then you read our english bibles that have the word 'hell' in it and Jesus said that people were going to go there it was pretty much a slam dunk to accept what we were taught. It never occurred to most the contradiction of seeing in the scriptures that God IS love and that love NEVER fails and that Christ died for ALL and that he IS the savior of the world then to compare that with the teaching of eternal torture for temporal sins. For myself I never understood the idea of 'hell' but I thought that God is perfect and whatever He does is right so if He created a hell and sends people there then it is right and who am I to question it?
But then in the fullness of times God uses people like Ray and a few others to properly exegete the words that are used in the scriptures that the theologians translated into 'hell' and how the hell teaching came from the old mystery religions originally and the church borrowed these despicable teachings on hell and crafted words in the New Testament to translate into hell, [mystery babylon the great indeed!!] then with the power of God to remove the scales from the eyes it all falls into place. Now the scriptures make total sense to me, they harmonize one with another and don't contradict anymore. One of the most powerful proofs for me is the teaching that scripture always interprets scripture....that we need at least two scriptural references for an interpretation...that no scripture is it's own interpretation. (2 Peter 1:20)
The most frightening scripture in the whole bible is this one...
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Of course it's demonstrably proven that almost everything in the book of revelation is symbolic and allegory yet the church teaches that this particular scripture is indeed literal but then they don't provide any other scriptural witnesses to properly explain it. The only scripture that does explain it is this one.
1 Cor 11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I share this for the benefit of any of our guests that may be reading this. The churches never tell us or explain the above in reference to the scripture in revelation do they? Our God IS a consuming fire. The fire of God burns the mans work and not the man!! The carnal and fleshy works of men are burned. Once God turns on the powerful searchlight of his blinding truth in our lives the scales are removed and now we understand. Oh, the sorrow that many will have in standing before their Lord on that day when they now understand how miserably they misrepresented him to a dying world.
claypot:
I think Ray inferred that this work was a money making scam for the author and those involved and it sounds like it did do that successfully.
cp
gmik:
Arion those are classic!!!
daywalker:
THANK GOD FOR BILL WIESE, AND HIS BOOK "23 MINUTES IN HELL"!!!
....if it wasn't for him, and the dozens of emails that Ray received from proponents of his book urging him to read it, we may never have been blessed with such an
AWESOME REBUTTAL!!!
;) :D ;D
Daywalker 8)
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