How did you tell your loved ones about your no longer going to church?

[Duane]

Ijust LOVE

[Duane]

I just love to read and re-read the messages on Ray's MAIN web-page, as well as all the "Posts".  In fact, I have a hard time wanting to watch tv programs that I used to really enjoy!  Then, there is all the hard copy articles that I have that I review a lot. 
I have only been MEMBER a few months, but now I am getting to the place that I have the confidence that I know this "new doctrine" equally as well as the "church doctrine" that I was brought up in.  I am getting more bold in expressing my convictions because I am reading the articles enuff that I know where to go to find the points I am looking for, which include the verses.

One of the flaws of Ray's, and sometimes, Samson's articles is that they are really Doctoral Thesises  covering such a WIDE variety of subjects that they really need a TABLE OF CONTENTS.  Sooo, being that these 50-100& page articles are NUMBERED when they are hard copied, I go through them paragraph by paragraph and INDEX them for easy reference.  Someday, there should be a COMPLETE INDEX that
cross-references a topic from "thesis to thesis".  WHEW!  THAT WOULD BE A LOT OF WORK!  However, I love hard copy (minus the HIGH cost
of ink) because I can underline things, write notes in the columns and also study to my heart's content without hogging the computer when
my PATIENT wife, would like to use it!
I am sure Samson and Kat must havetheir own systems of finding/retrieving things as they "cut and paste" from larger articles.  Maybe they could share their system with us novices so we don't have to "re-invent the wheel"!

[Bill]

I do not think we have any obligation or responsibility to teach anyone the truths of God, whether they be family, or minor children, or the general public.

Jesus is the Saviour.  That's what His name means.  It's His job, responsibility, obligation to save people, which He will do at the appointed times.  He will save everybody.  We don't have to worry about it.

Que sera, sera!  If Jesus wants to use someone to teach the truths of God, like Ray, then He will see to it that that person does it.

Sometimes we take too much on ourselves.  Didn't Ray say somewhere that light and salt do not teach or preach?

Perhaps responsibility was a poor choice of words for me choose.   What is the loving thing to do for our children when it comes to teaching the truth when one spouse believes something else?

Bill

[Bill]

I just love to read and re-read the messages on Ray's MAIN web-page, as well as all the "Posts".  In fact, I have a hard time wanting to watch tv programs that I used to really enjoy!  Then, there is all the hard copy articles that I have that I review a lot. 
I have only been MEMBER a few months, but now I am getting to the place that I have the confidence that I know this "new doctrine" equally as well as the "church doctrine" that I was brought up in.  I am getting more bold in expressing my convictions because I am reading the articles enuff that I know where to go to find the points I am looking for, which include the verses.

One of the flaws of Ray's, and sometimes, Samson's articles is that they are really Doctoral Thesises  covering such a WIDE variety of subjects that they really need a TABLE OF CONTENTS.  Sooo, being that these 50-100& page articles are NUMBERED when they are hard copied, I go through them paragraph by paragraph and INDEX them for easy reference.  Someday, there should be a COMPLETE INDEX that
cross-references a topic from "thesis to thesis".  WHEW!  THAT WOULD BE A LOT OF WORK!  However, I love hard copy (minus the HIGH cost
of ink) because I can underline things, write notes in the columns and also study to my heart's content without hogging the computer when
my PATIENT wife, would like to use it!
I am sure Samson and Kat must havetheir own systems of finding/retrieving things as they "cut and paste" from larger articles.  Maybe they could share their system with us novices so we don't have to "re-invent the wheel"!

Duane,

Here is a good place to start.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,14.0.html

[Dave in Tenn]

Perhaps responsibility was a poor choice of words for me choose.   What is the loving thing to do for our children when it comes to teaching the truth when one spouse believes something else?

Bill

Bill, all I can offer is some counsel.  Feel free to ignore, as I'm not a father.

I'd ask some questions first.  How old are the kids?  Have they developed their own concience and belief system to some extent?  How adept, accustomed, and/or inclined are you to be the head of your family AS CHRIST is the head of His church?  How comfortable are you with the truth that you can't convince anybody--not even a child of a certain age--against his or her will?  As a matter of fact, we can't convince anybody at all, ultimately, because it is God who draws, calls and chooses.  While we can't believe without a 'preacher' (no matter what form that preaching takes), it's not the 'preacher' who performs the miracle ending blindness.

What truths are you wanting to instill?  Can you communicate them in a way that matches their ability to comprehend?

I guess what I am driving at is that this is an opportunity given you by the grace of God to learn and grow, and to experience evil.  Maybe the evil of uncertainty.  Maybe the evil of inadequacy.  Maybe to experience the evil of seeing your kids themsleves grappling with the evil in the synagogue.  Certainly to experience the evil of being a flawed human who falls short of the glory of God.

It may be (and it's certainly my leaning) that there is no one right thing to do with your children.  I'd only further add that when it comes to your own family, you're not likely to be able to sit quietly on every occasion.  Ultimately, 'success' is garunteed.  

I pray for all the parents grappling with this.  God gave you your kids.  He also gave your kids their parents.  Surely He knows what He's doing.  

[Kat]

Hi Bill,

You mentioned "There is always lots of situations that come up in daily life to let your light shine."  Comments like this has always confused me as letting you light shine as you say is seen by some differently.  There are people through out history that those in the church system look to that live a life letting the light shine.  Some may say the Pope, Mother Theressa or even Gandhi lived a life of letting there light shine but what has there lives proved?

Yes those people you mentioned did let there light shine, by seeking to do good in a corrupt world. This is the fruit of righteous character development which is always a good thing in God's eyes. There may or may not be any payback in this life for living righteously, but sooner or later as the Scripture says everyones shall give account for the work/fruit they do in this life.

Rom 14:12  So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

1Co 3:13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

So it does matter how you live and the fruit you bare in this life, God will hold everyone accountable, for the few that judgment is going on now, but for the many it will come in the Lake of fire.

is the loving thing to just sit back and be quite?

So what I mean by letting your light shine in situations that come up in daily life, well I mean as we go about our lives it's rather easy to do good when things are going our way. But then we are always confronted with difficulties and trials of one sort or another and how we handle these things says something about what kind of character we have, especially to others. This is the fruit that we ultimately develop from the way we think and is reflected in our words and then is evident in our actions.

John 15:16  You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain...

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
v. 23  gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law.

Hope this better explains.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Linny]

Bill,
As a mom raising daughters who have been taught from what I call psycho-babble/megachurch doctrine to charismatic/word of faith doctrine to now truth, I have had to UNteach quite a bit and admitted my "wrongness." My oldest is quite Spiritually deep and always has been. She goes with the flow and picks it up quite quickly. She also sees the inconsistency in the things she hears and amazes me with the wisdom God has given such a young child.
Her father and I are on the same page with most of what we've been learning here but not everything. And certainly not everything we see in the world are we in agreement about either. The way I handle this is that when I am talking to them about something I don't agree with their dad on, I tell them so. I say, "This is what I believe but your daddy doesn't believe this way." I feel free to give my side and he his.
My oldest (age 12) has told me, "Mom, I know what you think and I know what daddy thinks but I am not sure what I believe yet."
And I tell her that she will believe exactly as God wills her to. I have no concerns about it at all.

But as a family who loves God, I don't see why we have to be upset or intimidated by our disagreements.
As was said here before by a very wise member (not me  ) This is what I believe, "1) I believe in the sovereignty of God and 2)I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world."
If your wife (thinks) she believes the same, then she should stop worrying.

If she is overly concerned about the no hell doctrine, then concentrate your teaching to the love of God and the Scriptures that teach that. If you truly understand the depth of God's love for us, and the Scriptures about why Jesus came here and what He said He accomplished, the rest will come. The natural questions will come when children see the inconsistency in the church teaching of unconditional love vs. hell and torture.
Then you will be hopefully be ready to give an answer for the hope that you have in Christ Jesus. 
Lin

[santikos]

Tx everyone for all your insightful advice. I will just continue to let God  love me and focus on his truths. Txs again for all you that have posted. This the only place I can have fellowship with others because no one here in San Antonio believes like I do. Txs

[Dawidos]

I must say I have a problem with going to church. My family has noticed some signs of my conversion, but apart from calling me a hypocrite (you should know what I mean - you were an atheist and now you are a believer?) they mentioned I should go to church again. What is a dilemma here? If I don't go, they will think that they were right (my conversion is just a "mask", nothing more). If I go, I will feel very uncomfortable - after I've learnt the Truth I can no longer listen to church teachings, spend my time there, I just see no sense in going to church. It's very sad that for many people not going to church means you are breaking the Third Commandment. Anyway I prefer the second option maybe due to God's spirit I slowly stop worrying about others' opinions. Do you think my attitude in this matter is proper?

[phillip78]

I must say I have a problem with going to church. My family has noticed some signs of my conversion, but apart from calling me a hypocrite (you should know what I mean - you were an atheist and now you are a believer?) they mentioned I should go to church again. What is a dilemma here? If I don't go, they will think that they were right (my conversion is just a "mask", nothing more). If I go, I will feel very uncomfortable - after I've learnt the Truth I can no longer listen to church teachings, spend my time there, I just see no sense in going to church. It's very sad that for many people not going to church means you are breaking the Third Commandment. Anyway I prefer the second option maybe due to God's spirit I slowly stop worrying about others' opinions. Do you think my attitude in this matter is proper?

I don't blame you. I went for a while but I just couldn't just sit there listening to what they were saying. Sooner or later I would have eventually opened my mouth, and then it could have turned into a big debate. That I did not want cause I know how these people are. (This church even condemned watching tv) There is nothing there in these churches for me anymore. And I could care less what these people think. (though I do still have a Godly love for them)I know exactly what they think of me now. I'd be willing to bet money they are thinking "well then he don't believe in hell? well he's going to find out" But you know you know what? It's not what they think, it's what God thinks, and God is the one who gets the final say so. And God does tell us to "COME OUT OF HER"

[Samson]

I must say I have a problem with going to church. My family has noticed some signs of my conversion, but apart from calling me a hypocrite (you should know what I mean - you were an atheist and now you are a believer?) they mentioned I should go to church again. What is a dilemma here? If I don't go, they will think that they were right (my conversion is just a "mask", nothing more). If I go, I will feel very uncomfortable - after I've learnt the Truth I can no longer listen to church teachings, spend my time there, I just see no sense in going to church. It's very sad that for many people not going to church means you are breaking the Third Commandment. Anyway I prefer the second option maybe due to God's spirit I slowly stop worrying about others' opinions. Do you think my attitude in this matter is proper?

Yes Dawidos,

                  I do think your attitude is proper,  . Continue to stop worrying about others opinions regarding what to believe and their opinion about why you don't go to Church. For me, going to Church would be a total waste of my time, even for the social aspect. What fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness. They have nothing to teach me anymore, I've been called out. The Apostle Paul was told by the Proconsul that all this knowledge He attained was driving Him mad or crazy. Also back to going to Church: God does not dwell in handmade temple's, Churches, buildings, Synagogues, He is not far from each and every one of us. Jesus spoke about THE Church and HIS Church. HIS CHURCH is the only one that I'm interested in being a part of, if it's His Will for me to be a part of it. No interest here in ever being a part of THE Churches where they emphasize the Physical: physical water baptism, physical heaven, physical blood and bread of Christ, Physical punishment, Physical circumcision, physical Sabbath. Well, you get the picture. It would be better to concern ourselves with our Character and Moral flaws regarding our thoughts and actions and how it's perceived by those Church Dwellers. This way they can hopefully see our faith and belief by the way we conduct ourselves. I would gladly trade some of my knowledge in exchange for being able to overcome some of my Character Flaws, but it's All of God working in me.

                                  Kind Regards, Samson.

[Bill]

Dave, Kat, Linny,

I have been meaning to come back and let you guys know I did read your post and very much appreciate them.

Thank you


Bill

[Cypress]

Yes Dawidos,

                  I do think your attitude is proper,  . Continue to stop worrying about others opinions regarding what to believe and their opinion about why you don't go to Church. For me, going to Church would be a total waste of my time, even for the social aspect. What fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness. They have nothing to teach me anymore, I've been called out.

                                  Kind Regards, Samson.

I understand what you mean...even the social aspect. My best friend's new theme seems to be "community". That's all I ever hear come out of her mouth anymore with regards to church. She acknowledges the messages have no meat to them, but she really seeks out friendships and "community" at church. Now she is leading a small group at the church and was telling me how thankful she is about that because she is meeting so many people she wouldn't have otherwise been able to, and getting to know so and so better; really having community. Since I don't attend, she told me last weekend that I should go with her, "if anything, for the community." Ugh...she just doesn't really understand my place and how I feel right now. She knows my thoughts on the church and my beliefs, and I've told her that I just don't feel like I can connect with anyone at church...but I guess it fell on deaf ears. I don't know how to explain to her that I'm just not interested in bonding with these people. She actually invited me to go with her to church tonight, but I didn't follow-up with her to confirm.

[Stacey]

"if anything, for the community."

Yeah, right. If you went with your friend just one time and give a Testimony of you being called out of the church, I'd almost guarantee you wouldn't be bothered with helping the community anymore. 

Continue to stop worrying about others opinions regarding what to believe and their opinion about why you don't go to Church. For me, going to Church would be a total waste of my time, even for the social aspect. What fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness. They have nothing to teach me anymore, I've been called out.

                                   Kind Regards, Samson.

Amen!

[Cypress]

.