Quote

[Craig]

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

Steven Weinberg


I no longer consider myself religious but a follower of Christ and the Father.  I count on Them to lead me instead of religious denomination to do it for me.  As a moderator here I will enforce the rules of the forum, but not turn any away as long as they obey the rules we enforce.  All are welcome here and I do not care what "sin" you struggle with or what lifestyle choices you make, you are a child of God.  How you live your lives outside the forum is no concern to me, it is between you and your Father. 

Craig

[Ninny]

Thank you for saying that, Craig...we all need to see people through Jesus' eyes and understand that God loves us no matter what we do, but He will change us into His image..We are in no position to turn our back on someone just because he doesn't conform to our way of thinking, God knows the big picture!
Good point!
Kathy

[Fester]

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

Steven Weinberg

What A Crock !

Weinberg is a Physicist and an intelligent man.  However, his witty, overly simplified comment, expresses his obvious displeasure with religions, and being an atheist, God as well.  He is either oblivious, or willfully ignoring the good things the church (religion) has also done down through the ages.  I have known some very bad men who from time to time have shocked me and done some very good deeds.  I have also known some good people who have slipped and performed some very atrocious acts.  None of these people were religious!  It does not take religion for man's evil actions to abound.  It only takes man and we are all an insult to dignity.  I know church and religion bashing is popular in this forum but I am sure most of us came out of a religious system.  A system God is using in His own usually mysterious way.  We all have a good and bad side, religious or not!

P.S. Nice stand Craig, but I think it is imprudent to promote factually incomplete, foolishly slanted statements.  

[Akira329]

Religion seems necessary:
Jas 1:27  Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Antaiwan

[Joel]

Short verse, powerfull words.
Matthew, 7:12
So then whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do you also to and for them, for this is [sums up,] the Law and the prophets.

Joel

[jassy]

Yes I would have to agree with Festus. Found a lot of Weinberg quotes on a Positive Atheism site. This man has a hatred towards anything Godly. Picked another at random.

If there is a God that has special plans for humans, then He has taken very great pains to hide His concern for us. To me it would seem impolite if not impious to bother such a God with our prayers.
-- Steven Weinberg, Dreams of a Final Theory


Sort of sums up where he stands

[Craig]

I know Weinberg is an Athiest and he hates religion, but the quote was true, at least IMO.  Look through history at all the evil done to our fellow man and most of the time it is done in the name of religion.  I guess I'm an optimist in that I believe most people tend to do good.  It doesn't take much to convince bad people to do bad things, but for good people to do really bad things just package it in the name of religion, then watch out.

God does not require us to be religious, He wants us to follow the example of Christ and to be molded as His children, letting Christ live in us.  Religion is a man made institution, an institution that does some good and some bad, but is not of God.  The Lions club, masons, girl scouts, etc. all do good things also.  There is hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world, God is not a God of confusion.  Religion is an institution of confusion.  If man did not follow religious leaders and lived for Christ the misery done in history to our fellow man, in the name of religion would be much less.  Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins.

Where is the Good News preached?  In Churches?  What is good about being told to accept Christ as our saviour and being "saved" or burning in hell for eternity?  What is good about being taught that the majority of mankind and our own families will be tortured for eternity?  What is good about a god who is a bigger monster than any of the most evil men in history?  And they claim it is fair and good?  The good news is Christ is the saviour of all man, no chains no bindings, no heavy yoke or burdens, He did it because of His love for us, just follow and let Him do the heavy stuff.  Where in Ray's teaching is a burden put upon us?  Ray just teaches the Good News and love of Christ.  The same message that the original Church taught until man corrupted it.

But, I know all is of God, and religion is used for His purpose.  You can call this post religious/church bashing, but sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.  Some of the best people I know are church goers, I came out of the church also.  But if a bad leader preached to them to do bad things far too many would follow, using religion as their excuse.

But what do I know?
Craig

[arion]

I got it the first time around Craig.  In the past I would of been aghast at the mans statement and would of thought 'well, what do you expect from an 'atheist'.  Just for kicks I looked up the word 'religion' in James passage and it's thrēskeia in the Greek.  

Strong's Definition;
"From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping."  

Thayer Definition:
1) religious worship
1a) especially external, that which consists of ceremonies
1a1) religious discipline, religion

It's interesting that from both men an important part of the function of the word is external and ceremonial observances.  All outward stuff that has little to do with the inward state of the human heart.  As we have all experienced from a personal perspective our carnal hearts are totally capable of the most auspicious functions of religion being busy with gilding the lilly and whitewashing the septic tank and yet be full of dead mans bones and all unrighteousness.  

Men have used religion to justify the most reprehensible behavior and that from all forms of external religion.  When we think of religious violence in the name of God we tend to immediately think of Islam and perhaps the Sikhs.  But then also the Buddhist's and Shintoist's seem so peaceful with their flowing robes but cross them in what they believe and their is murder in the heart.  And perhaps some of the worst examples can be found in the hallowed halls of Christendom.  The Roman church in the middle ages had as much blood on it's hands as the the Muslims.  Whole armies of knights marching into the Islamic lands slaying for the cause of Christ.  And then there was the inquisition and purges later on.  And even in our day look at the history of the Catholics and Protestants slaying each other in northern Ireland.  And even if they don't physically slay each other, the Protestant churches have the spirit of murder in their hearts as they hate their brethern as they think that they alone have the franchise of Christ.  They love you if you belong to their circle and if you are in the same daughter of babylon that they hold to but if you are without then at best your a second class believer.

Is it any wonder that the world looks at Christendom as a whole and sees very little savor?  The world looks at the churches and perceives a vengeful god who will torture his enemies for all eternity and they see that even the believers in the various sects despise each other and there is very little that they can agree on except that they don't agree with each other.  As all of this is on display it brings to mind....  Rom 2:24  For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.  Too our shame, I too must agree with Weinberg's comments albeit for a different reason than he has.

[Craig]

Strong's Definition;
"From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping." 

Thayer Definition:
1) religious worship
1a) especially external, that which consists of ceremonies
1a1) religious discipline, religion

I love to look closer to the original "root" meaning of words.  Here is more I found on religion.

A deeper study discovers the word comes from the two words re and ligare. Re is a prefix meaning "return," and ligare means "to bind;" in other words, "return to bondage."

The root of the word "religion" is usually traced to the Latin religare (re: back, and ligare: to bind)

Craig

[Fester]

I know Weinberg is an Athiest and he hates religion, but the quote was true, at least IMO.  Look through history at all the evil done to our fellow man and most of the time it is done in the name of religion.  

Yes review the history of evil and learn that atheists have committed far more atrocities than all religious groups combined.
http://www.oodegr.com/english/atheismos/atheism_atrocities.htm  

I guess I'm an optimist in that I believe most people tend to do good.  

Do we have to teach our children to be selfish with their toys? Do we have to teach them to make fun of the boy down the street with the big ears? Do they only learn laziness by example? Do they need lessons in lying? Certainly a poor example by parents and a lack of restraint will accentuate these tendencies, but virtues like sharing, truthfulness, obedience, and kindness must be taught.
"There is none good but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18)
"No one seeks God. All have turned away... there is no one who does good, no not one" (Romans 3:11-12)
The Bible's clear teaching on the nature of man is that he is born with a sinful nature.  Since we can always find someone worse than ourselves, we think that we have some good in us. But God does not grade on a curve.

It doesn't take much to convince bad people to do bad things, but for good people to do really bad things just package it in the name of religion, then watch out.

As history shows just package it in the name of any ideology!

God does not require us to be religious, He wants us to follow the example of Christ and to be molded as His children, letting Christ live in us.  Religion is a man made institution, an institution that does some good and some bad, but is not of God.  The Lions club, masons, girl scouts, etc. all do good things also.  There is hundreds if not thousands of religions in the world, God is not a God of confusion.  Religion is an institution of confusion.  If man did not follow religious leaders and lived for Christ the misery done in history to our fellow man, in the name of religion would be much less.  Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins.

Where is the Good News preached?  In Churches?  What is good about being told to accept Christ as our saviour and being "saved" or burning in hell for eternity?  What is good about being taught that the majority of mankind and our own families will be tortured for eternity?  What is good about a god who is a bigger monster than any of the most evil men in history?  And they claim it is fair and good?  The good news is Christ is the saviour of all man, no chains no bindings, no heavy yoke or burdens, He did it because of His love for us, just follow and let Him do the heavy stuff.  Where in Ray's teaching is a burden put upon us?  Ray just teaches the Good News and love of Christ.  The same message that the original Church taught until man corrupted it.

I agree!

But, I know all is of God, and religion is used for His purpose.  You can call this post religious/church bashing, but sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.  Some of the best people I know are church goers, I came out of the church also.  But if a bad leader preached to them to do bad things far too many would follow, using religion as their excuse.

But what do I know?
Craig

[mharrell08]

Let's all move on.