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[soberxp]

  to be a believer,do u really need god ,or u only want to get eternal of life from god?
please be honest,ask your self and don't answer my Q,answer yourself.

[Kat]

Hi soberxp,

John 10:9  I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 10:11  "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 10:14  I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
v. 15  As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
v. 30  I and My Father are one."

Salvation and eternal life only comes by and through Jesus Christ. God has a plan that He is working out, a process. Jesus Christ was resurrected as the First-fruit from the dead, at the first resurrection will be those that are begotten by the Holy Spirit of God in this life.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
v. 23  But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

Joh 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The only way to have 'life' is from the indwelling of the Holy spirit. At this time this Holy Spirit/Helper/Comforter is only given to a very few, a small number of people He is preparing and will use to bring to rest to salvation later in the great white throne judgment period. So God is not trying to save the world now, only the few that God is drawing to Him (John 6:44) will receive salvation and be in the first resurrection. He chooses those He desires (actually "the base things" (1Co 1:28) and we can not in any way qualify, deserve, earn, win or have a right to this life-giving spirit of begettal and salvation of our own accord. We all have sinned just as the first man Adam did and just as he died we also shall die and be gone.

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1Cor 15:46  But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.

So the way of this world is that all must die and return to the dust, this is the physical. Without Christ's resurrection there is no hope of anything else beyond this physical life.

1Co 15:16  For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
v. 17  And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
v. 18  Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
v. 19  If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Jesus Christ came in the flesh to give mankind hope that this physical death is not the end of it all. Now He is only giving the begettal/earnest of this spirit-life to a very few, the chosen/Elect.

1Co 15:47  The first man (Adam) was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man (Christ) is from heaven.
v. 48  As was the man of dust(Adam), so are those who are of the dust(all mankind); and as is the man of heaven(Christ), so are those who are of heaven(Chosen/Elect, now).
v. 49  Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust(Adam), we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven(Christ).
v. 50  I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood (physical/carnal) cannot inherit the kingdom of God(spiritual), nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

So it's all up to God... if we are seeking the truth, He caused us to... if we understand this truth, it's by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that He gave us... if we endure to the end, then we will be in the first resurrection and that was His plan from the beginning.

Mat 25:34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
v. 4  just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
v. 5  having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
v. 6  to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Bull's eye Kat!~


Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the Purpose of Him Who Worketh All things after The Counsel of His Own Will:

Arc

[longhorn]

I do believe in God, I do believe in God, I do believe in God.

Longhorn

[Roy Coates]

I believe there is God and I believe I am not him

[judith collier]

Soberx?, I saw your question a bit differently. Yes, I need God but even if He did not promise my ressurrection, I would still love Him because once you have experienced His love it is impossible to forget it, and living one's life without it you just know would be a life lived superficially, ignorant, judgemental and hateful and certainly NOT abundantly!!!!

[soberxp]

Soberx?, I saw your question a bit differently. Yes, I need God but even if He did not promise my ressurrection, I would still love Him because once you have experienced His love it is impossible to forget it, and living one's life without it you just know would be a life lived superficially, ignorant, judgemental and hateful and certainly NOT abundantly!!!!

yes!cuz somehow I found the chinese version a little bit upset,.so I was focused on the scripture,and I heard something new which I never heard.
mar  10:28  Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!"  
mar 10:29  "I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel  
mar 10:30  will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.  

cuz if a sentence's punctuation having different uses in different means.

1.no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.

2.no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel  !!!!!!!(a sentence's punctuation having different uses in different means. ),,,, (no one for me and the gospel)will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.(this is a strange idea,IMO,why did Jesus focus on it)

and another point to proof it.
Joh 13:36  Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later."  
Joh 13:37  Peter asked, "Lord, why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you."  
Joh 13:38  Then Jesus answered, "Will you really lay down your life for me? I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times!  

Correct me if I am wrong,thx

[judith collier]

Soberxp, are you just wondering WHYJesus focused on this OR do you wonder WHAT Jesus meant??
There are rewards in this life for following Jesus but there is also a price to pay. You will have to die to yourself and that isn't easy to give up your life unless you love Him very much because He first loved you.
The rewards are just what he said, family (like a missionary or a minister who have a congregation or what we have here on this site)
Joy (because we know Him and our future with Him)
Lands ( those who follow Him into other lands to serve the gospel, (feeding, educating, helping)
I think he made it clear what we will have and what we will suffer. He doesn't want anyone to decide this in a hasty manner. He is warning us and giving us encouragement, making us seriously decide and weighing everything which is always the best thing to do. He is a good boss! He wants us to succeed by understanding what will be required and also alerting us that we will have persecutions. judy

[soberxp]

I wonder WHAT Jesus really meant.did u get that a sentence's punctuation having different uses in different means.I ask this,cuz I'm not good at english language,I'm not sure I understand it right.but it's really upset in chinese version,cuz spoken language no punctuation,the translator seemed to translated mar 10:29 and mar 10:30 as a whole sentence.I don't know whether you also thought mar 10:29 and mar 10:30 as a whole sentence.then I ask and wonder WHAT Jesus really meant.

rember
Daniel 6:4 [niv]At this, the administrators and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him, because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent.  ....ETC Dan 6:24

no one for me and the gospel will persecutions that's what I got from word of god .

P.S:all the translator focused on  eternal life,they Rather get persecutions but only focused on  eternal life,LOL~!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Mat 5:20  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

2Co 3:9  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Mat 6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His Righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

[soberxp]

Thank you for remind me.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Joh 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My Name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.  

Arc

[Samson]

to be a believer,do u really need god ,or u only want to get eternal of life from god?
please be honest,ask your self and don't answer my Q,answer yourself.

Soberxp,

             I looked at Your Thread similar to Judy, but it's not the aspect of Eonian(Eternal) Life from God. Besides, only God's Chosen Elect get Eonian(the life of the age) life. Everyone else, believers, Non-believers, the despicably wicked, etc. will have to wait for God's Judgements after being Resurrected and cleaned in the Lake of Fire. It seems your question Is: Do we want or need God only because eventually He will save us and give us Immortality in the future. I believe like the Apostle Paul when considering the Resurrection, you wanted an honest opinion. If this Life was Our only hope, to be followed by Endless Death(Nonexistence) without a Hope of eventually being Resurrected, the Scriptures would be broken, God wouldn't be love and He would be a Liar. Why ? Because it wouldn't be loving to create us in the physical, put us on the Earth with the prospect of only dying, after 70-80 years of life and allot of people don't even get to live that long.

Here's my honest opinion ! The Resurrection of the dead is the most important teaching in the Scriptures for all Humans, without it, We would all eventually die and remain in that state. Everyone that is dead, except Jesus, are still dead without consciousness and need God to Resurrect them in order to live again. Here are some Scriptural examples that give us that hope: Elijah and Elisha performed some Resurrections(Read 1kings. 17:17-24; 2Kings. 4:32-37 & 13:20,21). Jesus Resurrected Lazarus, the widow of Nain's Son, Jairus Daughter, (Read:Luke. 7:11-15; 8:49-56; John. 11:38-44.) Some Resurrections were performed by The Apostles, notably Eutychus, the guy who fell asleep at the window listening to Paul and fell to His death, Acts. 20:7-12. Read 1Cor. 15: 12-19, some of these points: Verse 17: If Christ has not be raised up, your faith is useless; Verse 14: If Christ has not been raised up, Our preaching is in Vain, Our faith is in vain. Paul also said we are to be pitied, if there isn't a Resurrection.

So, All of the Resurrections that were performed according to the Scriptures give us Hope and even though all those Resurrected died again, except Jesus, We have that Hope of eventually receiving a Resurrection(Acts. 24:15). Either way, God is Sovereign, Resurrection or no Resurrection, but I don't think We could ever truly love Him, if this Life is all there is. A Life of suffering, trials, tribulation and pain followed by endless death without a hope of a Resurrection. That is not Love !

                          My Honest Opinion, Samson.

[Kat]

Hi Soberxp,

yes!cuz somehow I found the chinese version a little bit upset,.so I was focused on the scripture,and I heard something new which I never heard.
mar  10:28  Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!" 
mar 10:29  "I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel   
mar 10:30  will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 

Mark 10:29-30  So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's...

What Jesus is saying here to me, is that when your eyes are opened to this truth usually you are the only person in your sphere of family and friends that is being called out. Your whole life changes, you are now on a different path, the narrow path, while all those you know continue down the same path as the rest of the world. The Holy spirit drives those that are called to seek this truth above all other things, which may put us at odds with others. As many have attested to here this new way of life can lead to tension as our family, that is still blind believe we have forsaken the church. Which we have, so we must go our separate ways from them to some degree.

...who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

But as Jesus goes on to say, those that are called out are not really all alone. God is bringing others out of the church too, maybe not in our own neighborhood, but there are others in this world being called out just like us. I don't know about pass generations, but right now here on this forum we do have contact with other believers, this is a great blessing.

Now for believers there will be persecution, it is just the way it is when you are different than the rest of the world. People have always picked on (hated) someone who stands out as different.

So Jesus is saying He knows that believers will have friends and family that will turn away from them and they will also suffer persecution. But never forget no matter what we suffer in this life, no matter if everybody turns away from us now, our ultimate goal is to enter the kingdom at His return, which is eternal life.

1Cor 2:9  But as it is written:
       "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
       Nor have entered into the heart of man
       The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

I value what we have all shared. For me, it reveals that....

1Co 2:10  For us, however, God has drawn aside the veil through the teaching of the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, including the depths of the Divine Nature.

and.....

Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My Voice, and I know them, and they follow Me:

Arc

[judith collier]

I've come to accept death so much on this site i really don't care if i am resurrected. I will be dead and not know it anyway!
Honestly just to get through this life with the backing of God is fine with me. I don't want to rule anybody or come back to this world. I surely wouldn't mind a heaven where there are no more tears or suffering but I won't know anyway if I am dead!
I used to put my hope in eternal life but not since coming here with no heaven to look forward to for maybe even thousands of yrs.
Whatever He wants to do is O.K. I don't need some great reward, I have seen with my own eyes the goodness of God and am quite satisfied.
I have done an excellent job of accepting death.
Judy

[soberxp]

Samson
          my Q is do u really need god ,other way or do u only want to get eternal of life from god ?

          my purpose is, if I only want to get eternal of life from god ,I may indulge myself,why?cuz I don't even know real god for sure.but if I really need and want to understand our god,I will never fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age and in the age to come, eternal life! and I will never (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions)!!
         and Jesus replied to peter :"for me and gospel",not only for Jesus.if peter really lie down his life for Jesus how about gospel,we should don't have the chapter "1Peter" "2Peter" even any chapter from 12 apostle,and if anyone who for Jesus and gospel will get persecutions,how can it be?we should don't even know bible.

         did you get my point?
          1st sentence as a whole sentence.(no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields  for me and the gospel)


!!!!!!!(a sentence's punctuation having different uses in different means. ),,,,


2nd sentence as a whole sentence. will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.

who will fail to receive a hundred times ? (not for Jesus and the gospel)
as much?(as what?who will fail to receive a hundred times,and then? homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions)
will fail to receive a hundred times(fail to receive for what? eternal life , the gospel and Jesus)
what's the persecutions?(they left homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields)
why they got the persecutions?(cuz they not for Jesus and fail to receive  the gospel)
why they not for Jesus and gospel?(cuz they got the persecutions for lack wisdom,for pagan,for false teaching as the jewish community center did it befor,but not for Jesus and fail to receive gospel)

and why?(cuz you know,god of gods,lord of lords.what a wisdom and love is beyond words by Jesus.)

P.S:
can you say proudly:"OOOOO I LEFT MY HOME ,brothers, sisters, mother, children and fields  for the gospel and Jesus" to anyone who didn't  LEFT HOME, brothers, sisters, mother, children and fields  but still for gospel and Jesus.

rember at that time,Jesus said:"for I come,not bring peace......etc".did you think that means today china and America should fight for war? of crous NO!!!!  Jesus said that means in the certain place(promised land) at that time that place that race(Israel),the specific situation was total not for peace at all.

[soberxp]

  and for Peter,I didn't want to blame him for what he was doing.let us see his scriptural.


2Pe 1:1  Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:  
2Pe 1:2  Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. (Making One's Calling and Election Sure )  
2Pe 1:3  His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.  
2Pe 1:4  Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.  
2Pe 1:5  For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;  
2Pe 1:6  and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;  
2Pe 1:7  and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.  
2Pe 1:8  For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  
2Pe 1:9  But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.  
2Pe 1:10  Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,  
2Pe 1:11  and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (Prophecy of Scripture )  
2Pe 1:12  So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.  
2Pe 1:13  I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,  
2Pe 1:14  because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.  
2Pe 1:15  And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.  
2Pe 1:16  We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.  
2Pe 1:17  For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."  
2Pe 1:18  We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.  
2Pe 1:19  And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.  
2Pe 1:20  Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.  
2Pe 1:21  For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.  

[soberxp]

2Pe 2:1  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 
2Pe 2:2  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 
2Pe 2:3  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 
2Pe 2:4  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 
2Pe 2:5  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 
2Pe 2:6  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 
2Pe 2:7  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 
2Pe 2:8  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)-- 
2Pe 2:9  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 
2Pe 2:10  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. 
2Pe 2:11  Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 
2Pe 2:12  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. 
2Pe 2:13  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 
2Pe 2:14  With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed--an accursed brood! 
2Pe 2:15  They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 
2Pe 2:16  But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--a beast without speech--who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness. 
2Pe 2:17  These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 
2Pe 2:18  For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 
2Pe 2:19  They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity--for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 
2Pe 2:20  If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 
2Pe 2:21  It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 
2Pe 2:22  Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 

[soberxp]

2Pe 3:1  Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 
2Pe 3:2  I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. 
2Pe 3:3  First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 
2Pe 3:4  They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 
2Pe 3:5  But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 
2Pe 3:6  By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 
2Pe 3:7  By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 
2Pe 3:8  But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 
2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 
2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 
2Pe 3:11  Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 
2Pe 3:12  as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 
2Pe 3:13  But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 
2Pe 3:14  So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 
2Pe 3:15  Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 
2Pe 3:16  He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 
2Pe 3:17  Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 
2Pe 3:18  But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.