Please expose!

[gallenwalsh]

Hello everyone. I have searched this site for some insight regarding Ray's insights and have not found anything. My search was in regards to the so called Human " EGO" and the need for it to go away, and what I call the overall phony Christian theatrical hatred for it. Now I understand that GOD is creating individuals. To be an individual you must be self aware,have self concepts and a self image and a personality.I personally do not believe the self is evil of itself alone.and that God id trying to do away with it.  I believe selfishness is evil and leads to all kinds of sin.I think the Super self exalting ego is the real enemy here. The self that wants to do away with gods authority, wisdom and sovereignty. I think you need to strike a balance between living for yourself and others. I think you need to respect and take care of your personal needs and health. I think a vacation  is selfish but man does it feel good and refreshes my individual spirit.It's a genuine need.I have seen many theatrical displays from the pulpit that I feel mimic an understanding of what Gods spirit does to a man by a theatrical display of self ab oration, and hatred.A need to tell a story to whiteness to the world how evil they once were but are now saved, and thus good.To say repeatedly over an over again Praise the lord, as if God needs to hear his name over and over again like some insecure MAN.We need to make GOD feel good so he wont kill us, and torture us in hell.Certainly the apostle Paul went through a period of self loathing but he did not stay that way. I do not want to get in a war with words here but I'm just looking for some clarity on this subject. It's something I never bought, and why I always stayed away from religion. All the theatrics and no real visible evidence of change. Just an overwhelming feeling of guilt. I have seen hurting people slaughtered by this philosophy. I would like to see it addressed and exposed, because I think it stinks.Any comments and direction appreciated.

[Marky Mark]

"EGO" is not only Edging God Out but also an exaggerated sense of self-importance,which in turn is what makes one carnal and a pursuer of ones own lust and desires.[ie; idols of the heart]. Anything that Ray teaches on carnality can also apply to the word "EGO".

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Peace...Mark

[soberxp]

We are going through this period
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10924.0.html    (please read the link all)

Mar 13:26 And then shall they be seeing the Son of Mankind coming in clouds with much power and glory.

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of Mankind came, not to be served, but to serve, and to give His soul a ransom for many."

[Aatos]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I always understood the whole Id, Ego, and Super Ego as something like this.

Id:  I want it!  I want it now!  I want it, and I'm going to get it!

Ego: No, you are not going to get it, you don't need it.

Super Ego:  No, you're not going to get it, and shame on you for even wanting it you horrible person you!


So, shouldn't it be the Id that we should be railing against (and possibly the super ego)? 

[Roy Coates]

Sounds a little like "the beast" with in us. Try this paper
http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html

[Kat]

Hi Aatos,

That is an freudian theory. The id is your selfish side, super ego is your morality and ego is seeking a balance in your personality.

Ego is the act or practice of magnifying one's self, or making one's self of importance. As Mark was saying that is what the Bible calls carnality, it's the way of the flesh and like Roy said it is the beast within. It is the carnal/flesh/beast that we are trying to get rid of. Being carnally minded is quite the opposite of being spiritual minded, it is the difference in being alive or being dead, spiritually.

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
v. 6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Here are a couple of places Ray spoke on carnality.

http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html -----------

The beast, the man of sin, and the son of perdition are all one and the same:

"BEASTS": We have seen from God's word that God calls mankind "beasts"—Psalm 49:12 & 20; Titus 1:12-13; II Pet. 2:12; Psalm 73:22; Jude 10; & Ecc. 3:18). There is not just one prophetic beast OUT THERE, somewhere. We are ALL beasts—within!

"MAN OF SIN": This phrase can be translated: "lawless one" or "man of lawlessness," as numerous translations do. But it can also be sin. Are we to believe that there is only ONE "man of sin?" or only ONE "man of lawlessness?"

"For ALL [all mankind] have sinned, and come [Greek: 'fall'] short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23).

"MANY [not few] will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord... And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity [margin: 'lawlessness']" (Matt. 7:22a & 23).

"But the scripture has concluded ALL UNDER SIN..." (Gal. 3:22).

"Man of sin" is by no means the sole description of some one man that appears at the end of the age before the return of Christ.

"SON OF PERDITION": This phrase should really be "son of destruction." Again, my King James has "son of destruction" in its margin. Is this speaking of just ONE person at the end of the age who will be called "son of perdition?" Hardly. Jesus called Judas "the son of perdition [destruction]" in John 17:12. So maybe there are only two people who are ever given this designation? 'Fraid not. Notice what Peter says:

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition [destruction] of UNGODLY men" (II Pet. 3:7). 


http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html --------------

WHEN WILL I SEE THE BEAST WITHIN?

Paul wasn't telling the unbelieving world that "ye are yet carnal." Nor was Jesus telling the world that they had "left the first love." No, Paul and Jesus are both telling THE CHURCH that they are "yet carnal and have left their first love"! In other words, AFTER coming into a church, AFTER they have accepted Christ, AFTER they have pursued their walk with God, AFTER they have built a spiritual house upon the sand, AFTER they have become indoctrinated with the commandments of men and the traditions of men, can one fall away and be in a position to actually spiritually SEE THE BEAST WITHIN! SEE the man of sin and the son of perdition. See your carnal-minded, God hating, SINS. You and I and all who have be enlightened by God's word and our own failures in life, can surely see that we are all spiritually, WILD BEASTS.

If you insist that: "Ray! I don't see myself as a spiritual BEAST, or a man of SIN, or the son of PERDITION [destruction]." Well, all I can to say is to parrot Paul: "YE ARE YET CARNAL."
v
v
JUST WHAT IS CARNALITY

What then is it to be carnal or carnally minded? It's not good, I can tell you that. It's a monster—IT'S A BEAST:

"for to be carnally minded is DEATH..."

And just why is that?

"Because the carnal mind is enmity [DEEP-SEATED HATRED] against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed CAN BE [Gk: 'is ABLE']. So then they that are in the flesh [carnal-minded] CANNOT please God" (Rom. 8:6-8).
v
v
Paul used dozens and dozens of parables in His teachings. II Thes 2 is a parable with profound spiritual meaning.

THE MAN OF SIN SITS ON THE THRONE OF HIS OWN CARNAL MIND, IN HIS OWN BODY CLAIMING POWERS THAT RIVAL THOSE OF GOD HIMSELF! Our man of sin claims a spiritual power so great that it believes it can literally thwart and dethrone God Himself from our hearts. This super-natural power of the will is assumed by nearly everyone in the whole world.

v. 3 "...showing himself that he is God."

Even when we realize that Paul's teaching is spiritual, that this man of sin is representative of all humanity, we might feel that there is a problem with the third part of this description. What individual actually believes that he is, himself, the Creator God of the Universe? Even the most vanity-filled egotist would hardly claim to "BE God."

I believe this phrase should be translated "showing himself that he is a god."

And it is this very "god" that sits on the throne of men's hearts, which throne was created for Jesus Christ to be seated in the power of Holy Spirit.

And just how powerful is this "god" that sits on the throne of all unconverted men? It is so powerful that those who presume to possess this will of the mind that is absolutely "FREE" from any and all causality, can either bring about their own salvation or choose to reject their own salvation, AND NO POWER IN HEAVEN OR EARTH CAN THWART THEM. THEY can thwart God's purpose, but GOD cannot thwart their purpose. That my friends is "...OPPOSING and EXALTING oneself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that such an one as God sits in the temple of God [which temple our bodies are] showing oneself that he IS a god" (my paraphrase).

Men are looking for the BEAST (the man of sin/son of perdition) OUT THERE somewhere, when all the while he has been present INSIDE OF US ALL!
-----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Relatively speaking, the sense of self may be cut up into many segments and dissected into many perspectives or philosophies of man. Just like religion does to the body of Christ where there are more than 3000 different denominations.

It comes down to one thing.

Either you have a sense of self as did Christ or you have a sense of self vested in believing you have a free will, are the master of your destiny and God is somewhere outside attached to any one of the many different schools of thought of man...

1Co 1:20  Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
Arc

[gallenwalsh]

Thank you everyone.I was talking with my wife last night who has some psychology back round and while we were talking I realized pretty much what KAT just said. It's just Freudian. An invention of man. However, KAT put it much more into perspective.I just realized that I have to count ALL of my past as nothing, as garbage and forget everything I have ever learned about GOD and Religion and move forward with an open mind. Have to throw out out the garbage first to make room for the good stuff.Seems to me that all this stuff  I am so worried about is just stupid. THANK GOD ! Sew the wind reap the whirlwind in your mind, makes you dizzy. Getting off this ride,.... FAST!

[daywalker]

Well, I'd say the doctrine of FREE Will is the invention of human "ego". What else gives our "ego" more power than the belief that nobody, not even our Creator, can make us do anything against our own FREE Will? Computers are only capable of doing what they were programmed to do... what makes us think that we are much different in the ultimate sense? [Answer = Ego] 

Shall the Potter be counted as clay? [Isaiah 29:16]

I think a vacation  is selfish but man does it feel good and refreshes my individual spirit.It's a genuine need.

I would have to say I disagree here; I don't see vacations any more selfish than eating food everyday. [though there are exceptions, like those who take excessive amounts of vacations, spending too much $$ putting themselves and their families in debt...] As you said a vacation refreshes the spirit, and it refreshes the body too. These are good things in my estimation. I've found vacations to be a good time to reflect on things, and I've even come to understand a few spiritual lessons while on vacation because it gives me some time to rest from my job and other things that are going on in my life, and focus on stuff I normally don't have enough time to reflect on.


Anyway, good post.

Daywalker 

[Dave in Tenn]

Thank you everyone.I was talking with my wife last night who has some psychology back round and while we were talking I realized pretty much what KAT just said. It's just Freudian. An invention of man. However, KAT put it much more into perspective.I just realized that I have to count ALL of my past as nothing, as garbage and forget everything I have ever learned about GOD and Religion and move forward with an open mind. Have to throw out out the garbage first to make room for the good stuff.Seems to me that all this stuff  I am so worried about is just stupid. THANK GOD ! Sew the wind reap the whirlwind in your mind, makes you dizzy. Getting off this ride,.... FAST!

What you've just described is 'repentance' just as much as stopping some fleshly sin.  As Ray's said, it was the first commandment of the new covenant.  Take it from those who have been doing it for a while...it's not always easy, but it's worth it.  It can start in a day, but it won't end in a day.

Hang in there.

[judith collier]

gallenwalsh, there are other ways to describe these states of mind. I realize you have resolved this subject and have better understanding. But I thought I would throw this in here as it is interesting to observe the thoughts of our little minds, at least to me.
How many times have people said "boy, do I sound like my parents" or view your childself, the believing, trusting, fun part (unless abused) The part Jesus said you must become like to enter the Kingdom.
Then look at the 'old' mind before Christ and it's renewal. The 'old' will fight the 'new', the old being beastly!
Judy

[gallenwalsh]

Very good Judy ! Thanks. Man is that ever true. The old way is terrible, but never the less, it is familiar. How sad that terrible /familiar is in conflict with wonderful/unfamiliar. I really do believe that the new will eventually win over the old. Ah yes, becoming that "TRUSTING" child again after a lifetime of let down and learning to trust only your self, then loosing your own self trust. Frightening at times. what will become of my precious self if I let go and trust again?This invisible force that promises so much.Am I describing a fearful and unbelieving heart? "ABSOLUTELY"!!!...... That's what goes on in my Babylon.and Babylon must smolder and die!

[Nan]

Gallenwash - that is precisely how I feel.  have been unable to 'let go' and trust.

[judith collier]

Nan, gallenwalsh, it's taken me yrs. to trust God, was always afraid of what he had in store for me. It is nothing more than fearful anticipation, a learned trait for defense.
If you observe it everytime you 'see' it in action and OVERLAY it with the thought of God's GOODNESS and continue to practice you can be delivered.
God could deliver you in a moment but usually not. Only one time in my life did God deliver me in an instant from fear. I was checked into an A.A. house for rehabilitation and I was so afraid I was almost paralyzed. When a woman started to work with me that night she went through the 12 steps and when she got to the second "God can deliver me from insanity' she told me to visualize the words in my head, big and black words on a white background.
In a matter of moments my mind, that was going in ten thousand directions went quiet, slowed down and the most incredible peace flowed through me. This has never happened again.
She said I was the fastest 12 stepper she had ever met. Yea, sure I was!
Since then I have practiced observing my thoughts and overlaying them with God's goodness and scripture, focusing on the love of God. Am I perfect in it? Oh dear me, NO! But it is much, much better.
Judy

[Nan]

Judy, I saw a program last night where a doctor siad we could rewire our minds, similar to what you are talking about.

[cjwood]

"She said I was the fastest 12 stepper she had ever met. Yea, sure I was!"

judy your comment made me think about how Jesus Christ the Saviour is the only step for anyone's recovery. from anything. and everything.

gallenwalsh, i just wanted to say that i have learned things from reading your questions and the many responses to them.

claudia