Have any of you guys heard of conditional immortality.It is a concept of special salvation in which the gift of immortality is attached to (conditional upon) belief in Jesus Christ.Annihilationism is the belief that sinners are destroyed, rather than tormented forever in "hell" as in the lake of fire.
Any verses to refute these doctrines
Hello Booker,
First of all, there are two greek words in the New Testament that are usually translated Destroy, Destruction, Ruin, Perish, Lost. I copied and pasted an excerpt from my Thread(Greek Words defined and usage), it defines Apollumi(Destroy, Lost, Losing, etc.) and Oleuthros(Destruction, Extermination, Perished, etc.). Remember, God Wills or Desires that NONE(GK-ou'te, ou-root) Perish, but all attain to repentance. If God desires or Wills that NONE Perish, there cannot be any in that category, due to the NONE mentioned. Also, 1Cor. 5:5(paraphrased: " Destruction(Oleuthros) of the flesh TO SAVE THE SPIRIT in the day of the lord." Apollumi and Oleuthros are related in meaning and usage, although not exactly the same. Read Copy and Paste below.
3) Kolasin: Chastisement, Root Word is Kolos and literally means "to prune" The Correction is with a view to helping the offender. Usually incorrectly rendered Punishment.Matt. 25:46 (Eonian Chastisement)4) Timoria: Punishment or Penalty; It means the vindictive character of punishment that only satisfies the inflictor of it. Acts. 4:21 ( Find no way of punishing them).PUNISHING VS. CHASTENINGWhile considering all of the hellfire and brimstone material disseminated by Christian teachers, preachers, writers, and educators around the world, just how many hundreds of times do you suppose the word "punishment" is used in the entire New Testament with regards to sinners? Hundreds? Would you believe less than fifty? Would you believe less than ten? Would you believe ONCE? That’s right, the answer is one time.
"Of how much more punishment [Gk: timoria], suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Heb. 10:29).
I can assure you that those who have committed the above crime towards the Lord are few indeed. Most of humanity that will be judged in the lake of fire have NEVER EVEN HEARD of Jesus Christ, let alone, "trodden underfoot the Son of God, and counted the blood of the covenant, an UNHOLY thing, and done DESPITE unto the Spirit of grace." Most have never even heard of such sins, let alone committed them.
This is a most powerful Scripture to be sure, but it does not speak of "eternal" punishment, and it is the ONLY SCRIPTURE IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT that uses the word "punishment" with reference to punishing sinners!
There are three other places in the KJV that the word "punish" or "punished" is used correctly. They are Acts 4:21; 22:5; and 26:11 where it Saul (later Paul) is punishing not sinners, but members of the church, the followers of Christ.
II Thes. 1:9 should be translated, "eonian extermination" and not "punished ... everlasting."
II Peter 2:4 & 9 should both be "chastening" as it is the same Greek word kolazo and not timoria which means punish.
The KJV uses "punished" in verse nine, which should be "chasten," and ironically it doesn’t even translate the Greek word kolazo (chasten) in verse four -- the KJV translators left it out completely. I suppose the translators thought that it was redundant to say, "chastening judging." But then again, they didn’t bother to look at II Cor. 2:6 which should read "rebuke" (another Greek word, epitimia), not "punish."
And lastly, I Pet. 2:14 should read "vengeance" ( still another Greek word, kdikesise), and not punishment.
So in the case of "punishment" we have but ONE Scripture to deal with, and we will deal with it.
This next fact doesn’t necessarily "prove" anything, it’s just the way my mind works. Jesus Christ said:
"O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the ABUNDANCE of the heart the MOUTH SPEAKS" (Mat. 12:34).
I think we all understand that statement: What is heaviest and most dominant on our heart is what we talk about the most.
Now then, my observation. We learned of the one time that punishment is used in reference to sinners. Would you all be interested in knowing how many times the opposite of punishment is used? Okay, the word "mercy" (-ies, -iful) is found in the Bible over THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY times! Could it be that the "abundance of God’s heart" consists of many more MERCIES than it does of vengeance and punishment?
5) Apollumi: Lose, Lost, Destroy, Ruin.
Matt. 10:28 ( Fear Him who is able to DESTROY)
Matt. 18:11 ( Came to Save that which was LOST)Not even one, zero, not some, not any, not at all any ) should perish (Gk. apollumi - perish, destroy, lose) but that all (Gk. Pas - all, as many as. We can take that out, forget the word all, you don‘t need it. Put ‘that they,’ who? Anybody who doesn’t come under the category of none) should come to repentance.”
Are you following this? This is all based on the negative. How many that don’t come under the category of none, not any, not any man, not any woman, not any thing, none whatsoever, nothing. Now if you are not in that category, you are going to come to repentance and not have a destiny of perishing or perished - apollumi. How many is that? Everyone does not come under the mē, the none, so it includes everyone. Therefore the “all” in that verse is everyone who is not included in the “any,” and that’s EVERYONE!
Now we understand that all humanity is in a state of ‘apollumi,’ sometimes. Because apollumi meaning destroy, perish or lose. All mankind are lost, so it’s not talking about in this lifetime that no one will ever be destroyed or die or be perished or not be spiritually lost, as their destiny, because this life time they do. But ultimately our destiny for everyone, is to be unperished or lost. None, because the negative here proves it. If there is even one that comes under that category, it can’t come under that category, because that category doesn’t include anyone, it’s a negative, no one. He’s not willing that anyone, no one be perishing or lost forever. There again the apollumi, Christ said I’ve come to save those that are apollumi. When the scripture say, “the Lord is not slack,” is there any room for slackness? No. A little slackness? No. No slackness at all. When He says, “…is not willing that any should perish,” it proves the positive side. The negative proves the positive.
6) Oleuthros: Destruction, Ruin; the affect upon the physical condition of a person for the purpose of their Spiritual benefit. 1Cor. 5:5 ( DESTRUCTION of the flesh so the spirit may be saved)
1Thess. 5:3 ( Suddenly upon them cometh DESTRUCTION.)
Booker, I added a short copy and paste paragraph below from Ray discussing Fire(GK-Pur) to help you understand what is going to be destroyed, Carnality(fleshly thinking, wicked desires). Read Below !
In statement (1) the editor of Strong’s cites seven more Scriptures that are used symbolically and figuratively to demonstrate "the holiness of God, which CONSUMES ALL that is inconsistent therewith." It doesn’t consume their physical bodies, nor does it burn their physical bodies to produce pain, but it "CONSUMES" all that is not consistent with God’s holiness. And these are the things of the heart, mind and spirit! It is not the "body" that needs chastisement and purification, it is the MIND, HEART, AND SPIRIT that needs purification from unholiness. You cannot burn pride and vanity out of one’s heart with REAL FIRE (besides the advocates of torturing with real fire for all eternity admit that it accomplishes NOTHING). It takes the fire of God’s spirit to burn away evils that have their origin in the realm of spirit.
This teaching is so absolutely elementary that it seems strange to even have to explain it. And yet, many of the greatest minds in theology today have not a clue as to these simple spiritual truths. All over the world Christian leaders continue to teach that the way God will deal with people who have wicked and carnal hearts, minds, and spirits, is to BURN THEIR FLESH IN REAL FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY! And what, pray tell, does this infinite mountain of eternal pain accomplish? Why it is "justice" cry the high priests of Christendom!
Hope it helps, you must do more reading of Ray's, just like the rest of us.
Samson.