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[Sincere Christian]

Hello, I am interested to know what some of you believe about the following: It seems to me, that lately, Christians have allowed themselves to be tricked into thinking that is no longer necessary to give to support true missionaries, or humble ministers; the poor; and similar. While tithing, as a rule, certainly is not correct, giving, from the heart, to legitimate needs, certainly is. There is no question about God blessing those who give, He does. It seems as though people I have met, are nowadays so filled with self, and embrace materialism heavily, that they feel that they have built up their wealth, and do not honor God in this, nor do they realize that it is, in fact, God's money, as are their entire lives.

Of course, I am speaking about Christians, in the sense of churchy people, and house church people. Still, they represent Christians, and unfortunately, people like us on this forum, are very hard to find- rare.

For example, I have walked a pure life in Jesus, for 30 years. I have spent countless years of mostly volunteer service helping homeless and mentally-ill people in the rough areas of Los Angeles, toward true Christian discipleship, with great results, as well as missionary work in Eastern Europe, Amsterdam, and urban cities in the USA. I have given money to those in need, many, many times, often even if it was a real sacrifice to do so. I am simple enough just to love God deeply, and help other people who do not yet know Him.

In the love of God, I now have a fiancée! We are both so committed to Jesus, and have been mainly missionaries our whole lives, even before we met. God has led us to soon move back to where I am from, Seattle, where I have (or had!) friends, and to have a nice life; and to be involved here with helping people become true Christians; helping those with mental challenges, toward friendships and the love of Jesus, as well as future overseas mission work. We have been shaken, living in So CA, where most people are so, so mean, that Father led us to soon move away, a careful, but wise decision.

Since I have a temporary, yet serious, disability, things have been most difficult, so I had to come here ahead of my fiancée, where I thought people I knew for years, would pitch in and help with the modest, itemized costs of moving from another state to here, and related costs. I have tried everything, and I am surprised greatly that people will not help, or help to raise the amount, or anything, except mocking. Quite a few made firm, sustained promises, yet would not honor them, nor cared about breaking their word. We most definitely could not get the slightest help in CA, so I simply had to come here to seek one-time help. I thought part of being a Christian is to help those in need, especially for legitimate and emergency needs.

If any of you knows of a sincere benevolence group, with no red tape, and good hearts, that may wish to discuss their possible once-only help for us, I would be very grateful if you could let me know their phone numbers.

Any thoughts would be best by private message, please, and I thank you deeply for not including advice, scripture, etc., just thoughts about the initial subject- Christians and Giving- and any valid suggestions. It is so urgent, and everything is well-documented.

[Deborah-Leigh]

~To whom it may concern ~

You need some help. You need some material and or financial help. It can come from others who can share or not feel the giving. It won't cost them anything or even if it does, better still.  You will take their help. Even if some feel the sacrifice, you would be most grateful, especially if anyone gives from their own lack, right, like you have done and have been doing? I get it. Not that you want anyone to be harmed by their giving to you, yet if it is a “sacrifice” like the sacrifice that Christianity teaches us to endure by giving out of our own want to “Christianities” work, that is better than ours, because they are spreading the Word of God, right, well,  that  is what a real good Christian would know about, and, well that would make you more grateful right?  I think I understand.

You know we cannot help out to remove our physical disability so you do not ask about that. I get it.  So if someone can give you some help you are hurting for and needing, and if they can not feel it, yet just give you a break, then they will be blessed of God right? If that someone hurts to help you, then they will be blessed even more, right? I think I understand.


I have no money to give you. What I have, I will give you. Perhaps, God willing, it may strengthen you in Hope and Endurance.

I know you are in a crisis sent by God for you to experience. I know you have a wonderful finance because that is in the Plan of God for you.  I know we should not risk going against God, to despise resent or go against Him to reject or be offended by what God in His Wisdom knows is best. I know this is very difficult  to do and in fact is impossible  to achieve without the Presence of the Spirit of God within  causing, manifesting and accomplishing within His Temple and Kingdom that is His Work to accomplish this Godly nature that is His to Give and His to manifest.

 I know  God is putting you into your circumstances and what happens is Christendom uses the very circumstances of pain, suffering and despair, fear and trepidation, to fleece the sheep and make merchandise of souls in the conditions sent by God to try, in fire and deeply painful situations such as yours.  I know it hurts deeply, profoundly and beyond any human capacity to describe.

You have asked us not to use Scripture or the Word of God to reply to you. Do you not want to be including God in this circumstance and yet it is God who Causes all  circumstances and HE IS your circumstance!

Do you not want to know how or why that is? Do you want God to shut up and do you want God’s own, not to refer to what we know of our Father and what He has to say about our circumstances?

When we are told to fear God,  we are to eventually realize enough about God to know that it is Him not people who have let us down because it is God, ALL GOD, who has turned  friends to not give us any help because it is GOD teaching us by example,  that human kind is not a good investment. You can give a human everything of yours and still they will not give you one grain back with gratitude or acknowledgement. That is the nature of humanity. Humanity is a Beast. We learn this by very painful personal experience. It hurts like proverbial Hell.
 
 God can and does and is able to make abound anything to us, including all our needs that God causes anyone of us to have in the first place! Everything is of God. EVERYTHING and it is so very deeply painful to get that! I sorrow for your pain and want to tell you,  With Love, all things are possible and God says so.

 I don’t have a dime to send you but it cost me much more in time, thought and expense to send this on the internet from South Africa to you….and God paid, caused and facilitated the expense. He paid it all.

I know God is Powerful and also that He can do ANYTHING!  And He does!  May be, God willing, this will give you Hope and Joy and Strength required to continue to endure the trial of pain, fear, despair and suffering that God has authored for your experience. I know it hurts. There are others here, dear others, who know what pain is and can relate to pain in its  horrible names, shapes, forms and manifestations.

Maybe, God willing, you will not walk away. It is a bitterly painful experience to die in the arms of love as, others are doing daily here. Money doesn’t help
~ Only God can. 

Arc

[soberxp]

7 As for me, I look to the LORD for help.
    I wait confidently for God to save me,
      and my God will certainly hear me.
 8 Do not gloat over me, my enemies!
      For though I fall, I will rise again.
   Though I sit in darkness,
      the LORD will be my light.

 9 I will be patient as the LORD punishes me,
      for I have sinned against him.
   But after that, he will take up my case
      and give me justice for all I have suffered from my [Spiritual] enemies.
   The LORD will bring me into the light,
      and I will see his righteousness.

—Micah 7:7-9, New Living Translation

[Dennis Vogel]

I have walked a pure life in Jesus, for 30 years. I have spent countless years of mostly volunteer service helping homeless and mentally-ill people in the rough areas of Los Angeles, toward true Christian discipleship, with great results, as well as missionary work in Eastern Europe, Amsterdam, and urban cities in the USA. I have given money to those in need, many, many times, often even if it was a real sacrifice to do so.

Mat 6:3  But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
Mat 6:4  That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:5  And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

[arion]

Very finely put Arc...but I know it was the Spirit of our Father speaking through you.  I know from many times in the past that when someone has a need and just wants you to 'pray' about it, what they seem to be really hoping is that you (the one who is asked to pray) are going to be the answer to their physical needs.  I have had times of need whereby I said nothing to nobody about it and only lifted it up to our Father and He met the need in His time and in His way.  I had a need to really learn how to control my use of credit and to learn to live within my means.  Did God send me more money?   Nooooooo....that would of been my way and far to easy.  The Lord 'blessed' me by having the IRS go after me for some unpaid taxes that were already outside the statute of limitations and I had no idea they were owed.  They slapped a levy on my wages and alloted me $600 a month to live on and they took all the rest.  This went on for 18 months.  This was actually an answer to my prayer as it caused me to live frugal and watch every penny.  I learned how to live on what I had.  And God did some real nice things for me during this time to remind me that he hadn't forgotten my address.  The chastisement He lays on us is not pleasant but He plies his strokes on our backsides out of Love like a good Father does.  I have no idea exactly what your situation is Sincere (btw welcome to the forum), but what I do know is that God has a finely crafted plan for you and His will shall be done.  He will meet your needs but it might not be in the way your expecting.  There are few people on this forum that have much in the way of worldly goods but there are many who have spiritual understanding far above mine and my heavenly Father enriches me daily through them.

[soberxp]

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx

 

http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/news/story.jhtml?id=307100012

Gates Foundation, Puget Sound-Area Counties Collaborate to Prevent Family Homelessness

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, in partnership with King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties, has pledged $60 million over six years to prevent homelessness in the region, the Seattle Times reports.

The funding from the foundation will be used to simplify the overwhelmed labyrinth-like support systems all three counties currently have in place. The counties, in turn, will be expected to leverage the funds to cover the costs of new systems, including staffing for programs and helping families with expenses such as rent, transportation, and child care. Having evaluated successful models for helping homeless families across the country and studied the results of its own Sound Families initiative, the foundation is urging the counties to put greater emphasis on preventing family homelessness, making it easier for families that do become homeless to quickly get the right help, and to fast-track most already-homeless families into permanent housing, focusing on their underlying problems after they get settled.

Even as the counties work to develop new systems to address family homelessness, however, the biggest concern among advocates for the homeless is how and where county agencies will house families that qualify for new programs. Under the current system, families typically leave shelters and enter transitional housing — often for upwards of two years — where they work with caseworkers to become "house-ready" for their own place.

Without some explicit provision for creating additional affordable housing, experts fear that the number of homeless families in the region will grow. But while Gates officials agree that affordable housing is crucial to the success of the initiative, its commitment does not include funds for new housing, which it believes is the responsibility of the public sector.

"The concern is that as we roll this out and get better coordination, we'll find a long and heart-wrenching wait list," said Sue Sherbrooke, CEO of the YWCA of Seattle. "No amount of coordination will increase the number of apartments or beds available."


Turnbull, Lornet. “Gates Housing-First Plan Doesn't Come With Housing Money.” Seattle Times 8/30/10.

Primary Subject: Community Improvement/Development
Secondary Subject(s): Human Services
Location(s): Seattle, Washington

FC015288


https://www.ywcaworks.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=446

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012734109_homelessplan31m.html



BTW.are you soldier？？

[Marky Mark]

Hello and welcome aboard Sincere Christian,the Spiritual train is now taking on passengers . I know you asked that we should refrain from using Scripture in your post, but without the Word of God directing our steps, how could any one of us possibly understand what to expect in our own sufferings.Our elder Brother Jesus wants nothing less than our full cooperation in Spiritual matters.

1Pe 4:12  Dear friends, don't be surprised or shocked that you are going through testing that is like walking through fire.
1Pe 4:13  Be glad for the chance to suffer as Christ suffered. It will prepare you for even greater happiness when he makes his glorious return.

1Pe 1:6  On that day you will be glad, even if you have to go through many hard trials for a while.
1Pe 1:7  Your faith will be like gold that has been tested in a fire. And these trials will prove that your faith is worth much more than gold that can be destroyed. They will show that you will be given praise and honor and glory when Jesus Christ returns.

Jas 1:2  My friends, be glad, even if you have a lot of trouble.
Jas 1:3  You know that you learn to endure by having your faith tested.
Jas 1:4  But you must learn to endure everything, so that you will be completely mature and not lacking in anything.



Peace...Mark

[jassy]

Reading all your responses to this post brings a lump to my throat. If the reason for hard times is not absolutely clear now then it never will be.
The choice which confronts you when hard times ,disappointment and fear hit is a very simple one. Are you going to be angry bitter and hardened or more loving, understanding and empathic of other peoples trials?
Janine, you make me humble, Arc, you wrote an incredible letter. Soberxp, I understand the kindness and desire to help with the Bill Gates foundation information.
I reckon I would have been  smaller, self centered and so very much harder if I had not had my trials. I would have been unable to show the same compassion I do now to others.
I do not welcome the lessons God gives me  and those I love and know.(Have not grown enough I reckon) Neither do I relish the thought of what my Father might have in store for the future. In fact it scares me. but if I can show just a little of the wisdom and compassion and Christlikeness of people I know personally and those in this bible forum than it puts a perspective on the experiences as you go through them.

Jassy

[judith collier]

It is extrtemely hard to give out of one's lack. That said remember the poor widow casting in her mites? It appears Jesus admired this action.
Perhaps people want to give but are afraid and they are not to the point of trusting God will provide.
Nothing wrong with asking. But if they don't respond, well, Thy Will be Done.
I will pray for you though that God will provide.
I do believe we are to help and not just those we, like but in everything seek wisdom.
That was very thoughtful of you soberxp!
Love, judy

[Joel]

Sorry, the word of God and his Spirit, is all that binds us together.

Psalms, 37:25- I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous
 forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Joel

[acomplishedartis]

Hi,
I saw the post you made on august 30 about looking to met somebody in London, London city I suppose.
I might going to London city next week for a few days, if you are around there you can send me a pm. It is impossible to send you one since you post on a guess position.
Oh, and between us, if you decide to make a forum name account, I don't know if you have noted that the word 'Christian' have gone too far in significances these days (as well as the words 'missionary work'). And when you call your self 'sincere christian', it feels to me like the first reaction of a mind is to suspect the opposite (might be just me.. and I am not saying that you are not). I am sorry for that, but first impressions with names sometimes can be tricky.
By the way, I will help you with WHAT I CAN if I ever see you.

Moises

[Roy Coates]

I see sincere christian has left BT site which makesme  think that sincere christian was trying to scam some of us. May God will be done

[daywalker]

For example, I have walked a pure life in Jesus, for 30 years.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

[Linny]

I don't think he was trying to scam us. I think he just wasn't a good fit here yet. I pm'd him about this and he pm'd me back saying I was the only one. He apparently only wanted pm's and didn't come back to read the comments here. Feared we'd possibly be "judgemental."

Perhaps once he has done some more work and God has done some more work, he'll come back to us in a better situation.

Lin

[Roy Martin]

I think a scam is not the case at all, but even so. what is that to a cheerful giver?
 Oh how disappointing and hurtful it is to have expectations of each other, especially brothers and sisters in Christ.
 A stranger comes into the flock because they see something in us, and ask for help which would to me be something hard to do.
 Are we instructed to qualify a stranger before helping them? Are we to question their words and beliefs, or their introduction. Do we show them our carnality through suspensions, or does the Spirit within us reveal itself to them with kindness, compassion and understanding.
 Sincere Christian hasn't returned probably due to two reasons. He received no help, or he didn't see Christ in us, or both. Expectations on his part, qualifications on our part, or some I should say. What have we learned in this, or is it what have I seen in the mirror?
 Just saying it as I see it, and wondering if a cheerful giver is conditional.

Peace
Roy

[Deborah-Leigh]

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
 
Sincere Christian might have been tried here, yet when he was here, I believe he was treated well and now he has gone ~  it is not for us to speculate or make assumptions. I don't believe that is our job.

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Arc

[Dennis Vogel]

Are we instructed to qualify a stranger before helping them? Are we to question their words and beliefs, or their introduction. Do we show them our carnality through suspensions, or does the Spirit within us reveal itself to them with kindness, compassion and understanding.
 Sincere Christian hasn't returned probably due to two reasons. He received no help, or he didn't see Christ in us, or both.

Reading his opening statement, this could apply:

Luk 20:46  Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

Search e-Sword for the word "beware" and you will find many more. We need to "beware."

It's the way he presented his need and that he was new to the forum that made me a little suspicious. And since he left I'm even more suspicious. If he were still here and addressed a few of the criticisms I would give him a lot of leeway.

Ray gets emails asking for financial help. There are programs that can look for web sites containing the word "bible" and then cull email addresses. Then they simply do a mass email. Should Ray send $100.00 to every one of these he receives?

There very well could be a need here. But as others have pointed out, God determined that help would not come from this forum.

[musicman]

Huuummm.  Where are these programs that can send mass e-mails to christians across the land?  That sounds like a good idea.  Never thought of that business proposition.




Say bible-truths members:

Could. . . . .could you spare a few bucks?

[Ninny]

You all have given fair and loving responses...I see too that Sincere Christian has left the forum..we all have to examine our motives for asking for something...God always comes through just in time..It is best to wait on God...and now...
My dear Musicman...if you need a few bucks...I need some work done on my house???
Kathy

[judith collier]

Kathy, me too! Hear the sirens singing musicman?