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[RJ1980]

amen brother. amen.

[Deborah-Leigh]

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"(Luke 23:34)..is not God’s Word. This doesn’t appear in Scripture.

The reason for asking the Father to forgive us or them or any Hitler assassin enemy of the cross, is not because they don’t know what they are doing it is because we are to forgive them as we are forgiven. It has nothing to do about being ignorant, foolish, not knowing what you are doing, or that they don't know what they are doing ~, NO! That is not a Scriptural reason at all!  It is GOD, Who gives over to a reprobate mind. God knows what He is doing.  Jesus was sinless and could not pray to forgive them by reason of them not knowing what they were doing ! We know that they did not know what they were doing and this is not the reason to forgive ~ NO. This is why this passage of Scripture is not in God’s Word. It is blasphemy of the sinless Son of God, spotless Lamb of God and our Lord and Savior.

Mar 11:26  But if YOU do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive YOUR trespasses.  

Now THAT'S Scripture!   ~  Jesus wasn't mumbling to Himself or refering to Himself!  He is talking to us. Jesus is the sin sacrifice NOT the sin, or the sinner. And how are we to forgive? By being crucified, just as Jesus was.

In this way

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in The Name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The world believeth not and neither can it believe, for Faith is a gift of God as is belief that only the Spirit of God can give. The world will learn righteousness and Jesus is the Savior of the world. Our blessing is to believe and have faith.


Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What you say about Jesus being "specific" in His Prayer to the Father is spot on Zee325

Arc

[Deborah-Leigh]

  YES zee325  ~  I am so happy our Lord opened your mind, heart and soul to the joy of His Love for you!

Blessings brother!

Arc

[Deborah-Leigh]

OH great... ..now I am not the only one who has been mistaken to be a brother!

I stand corrected.

Blessings to you sister!...and as for that "favorite verses"....umph...look at the bondage it causes! I am glad you've trashed it!

Deborah

[judith collier]

Arc, appreciated your response about forgiving but i do know it is much easier to forgive when you know the person is ignorant. But as you said, the reason is not the issue. It is forgiveness period!
Judy

[Deborah-Leigh]

Arc, appreciated your response about forgiving but i do know it is much easier to forgive when you know the person is ignorant. But as you said, the reason is not the issue. It is forgiveness period!
Judy

...and we can forgive squat/zip/nothing and no one...without HIS Spirit!! God knows we are useless at forgiving ourselves! or ridding ourselves from guilt or helping anyone else not to feel guilty if they are so imprisoned.

1Co 15:57  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 

1Jn 3:20  For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

1Jn 3:21  Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Blessings

Arc

[judith collier]

Hi again Arc, what about confessing our sins to one another? I have been relieved of guilt from people on this site because they knew God's word and preached it and also because they had guilt lifted from them and i figured I was no different.
judy

[Deborah-Leigh]

The Scriptures don't say anywhere that we are to confess our SINS to one another. The Catholic Church makes merchandise on such fallacy!

The Scriptures say confess your faults to one another and to who are we to confess our sins?

1Jn 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The liberation from guilt, disbelief or distrust of the Power of Christ to forgive and save, is surely through His Spirit working to bless, provide and encourage through His Word that through the inpiration of bringing that Word to your heart, the Lord set you free through His Spirit giving you ears to hear, eyes to see and a heart softened to recieve His gift of peace and healing.   

Arc

[Deborah-Leigh]

Dear Judy

A kind and insightful brother of ours has been instrumental to my re-assessment of what I said about the Scriptures not saying we are to confess our sins.

I have come to the conclusion that sin, trespass, fault and offense, as I now understand it, are actually the same thing! Well this is how I understand this now.

What I also see is that Babylon takes the Scriptures literally and this is not how they should be interpreted. 

I don’t know why 1. According to Professor C. Tischendorf, James 5:16 should read confess your "sins":…..
 
I do know and believe and see that “When you repent of all the wrong things you have done, you have not yet repented of all that needs to be repented of. ….you’ve only experienced life from your perspective. And that’s not enough. Not if you’re going to be a king and rule the world under Christ. You’ve got to have a broader perspective of everything and everybody and I want to try and help you understand that….” Transcript of a talk by L Ray Smith about Repentance.
 
We are to repent of what we do. That is half of the way. The other half is to repent of who we are.

Babylon will keep the sinner  in bondage by focusing on the sin and the seductive false teaching of confession to Priests (Catholicism)  of acts, thoughts and misdemeanors that doesn’t address the FAULT…the BEAM in the eye that  is the fault that we are to address. Confession to a mediator that is HUMAN/CARNAL/666, is not the way to obtain salvation!  Human mediators is what Babylon is all about. And we know that human mediation is in fact the messengers of Satan as exposed to us to understand and discern with all sobriety. It wasn’t too long ago I saw on another site the allegation that Christ was the sin-offering and not the trespass offering which is absurd to me. Jesus Christ was the fullness of God and He accomplished everything under the Law and made for the New Covenant that is better and not just a small edit on the Old. The Old has passed away. The New is here and that’s how I believe it! I am not yelling at you….it is just so exciting to share and see and believe this. It is so marvelous yet God is keeping the darkness in place over many not few as is in accord with the council of His Will.


The man of perdition that has to be perceived, unveiled and beheld in the fullest expression of bringing us all down to our knees as I believe, happened to Job and Isaiah as a fore shadow of what has to occur within each of us before we can, by the goodness of God, be repented and have sin no longer have any dominion over us. This is not to say after the man of perdition is revealed to us, that we then are saved, fully redeemed or sinless. No. It is to say we begin then to grow in Christ to the dependence and full submission of obedience He has of His Faith and His Spirit that is imparted to us as an earnest of our inheritance. We have to die. Christ has to live and this process is the one through which we are to enter through trials and tribulations into the Kingdom of God. Nothing is a done deal here in the flesh of our carnality, even as we die daily as did our Brother Paul until his final gift of Faith, he was given to submit his life to Christ and was executed ( probably beheaded) in Rome.

This is the way Babylon confuses many by tricking us to look at sin, transgression and fault as being the thing to watch out for and so it then condemns us to be on the constant self persecution role that doesn’t set free, but leads to deeper and deeper despair, darkness and pain. Of course, this IS the Plan of God for us to experience until by and through His Spirit we are set free to learn, see and hear the truth.
 
THE BEAST WITHIN / THE MAN OF SIN / THE SON OF PERDITION
I showed from the Scriptures in our last installment that we only become aware of the beast when we are standing on the "sand of the sea." AFTER our spiritual house built upon spiritual sand FALLS DOWN, and WE fall down. And this is precisely why Paul tells us that the
"…day of Christ… shall not come [to US] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST…" (II Thes. 2:1-2).
This "fall" by the way is not a little slip or a little stumble. It is a complete and total SPIRITUAL FALL! We all come to Christ with a simple childlike innocence. But … BUT, once we are in "the church of our choice," we start to get educated in the ways of Christendom. We learn of many rules based on the unscriptural traditions of men. We delight in many of these rules and traditions (sometimes not all of them), and before we know it, our new religion sooner or later TAKES US RIGHT BACK INTO THE WORLD that we thought we came out of. Ref:LOF 14

You see, the way I understand this is that confessing “sins” is not going to lead anyone to “a FALLING AWAY FIRST….” 2 Thes 2 : 1-2….not as Babylon has us believe we are to confess to one another our faults by putting us into guilt parties, cell groups and Catholic confessionals! Nothing carnal or physical is fruitful to us brethren of His Spirit and who are growing in the fruit of His Spirit and Love for us.

Arc

[cjwood]

... Nothing carnal or physical is fruitful to us brethren of His Spirit and who are growing in the fruit of His Spirit and Love for us.

a very, very BIG AMEN sister!  your post was apparently something Father God knew i needed to read, and ESPECIALLY to meditate on the last statement.

claudia

[Deborah-Leigh]

Yes claudia ~ Amen! ~  

I have edited the regretable earlier communication as I have found it more fitting to recall our Lords admonition claudia :


Mar 8:33  But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.


Arc

[HoneyLamb56]

Darren: thank you for this post and to those who have answered.  This thought has always been on my mind especially since I have a son in the military.  I do pray for both sides; those that are in the battle don`t really want to kill, they follow orders; leaders make the decisions (on both sides); for the most part it`s politics that cause people to be racist and to hate;  soldiers have family no matter what side they are on; we should show compassion to our enemies (prisoners) etc.; would we not want that for our own; at the same time we shouldn`t be confounded when we think injustices are being done such as civilian casualties; in the old testament I remember a time when God ordered in a battle that women and children were to be killed because he had a reason;  God has set the course and we can`t change it--we can pray only according to his will.  Pray for strength to love all.


 

[judith collier]

Arc, The way i see it confession of our sins (faults, shortcomings, etc.) to others is nothing more than agreeing with God and man that we are not perfect. At times we need help trusting in His mercy, forgiveness and grace on the way to being  comformed by Him into the image of His son, Jesus. I never thought otherwise. I don't think keeping our faults to ourselves is always a good thing to do. We can even be ashamed to tell God as though he doesn't know anyway. Then the evil one has us isolated if we do not ask for prayer from others.
Sharing our beastly selves brings in the light and the brethren. They hold us up less we become discouraged and impatient and forget we cannot deliver our sinful selves. We are reminded by others of God's word and His love and even how to deal with
situations. I've seen it many times on this forum. We can feel extreme guilt and begin to be judgemental toward ourselves if a fault is hidden away by us in darkness. We are quick to play God. Satan can get us tangled in knots.
You might not believe this but in a 'confessional' that is all that takes place. A servant of God reminds the penitent of Christ's sacrifice and redemption and that we are forgiven and then encouragement is given. Of course then there is prayer.
Judy
 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Judy

Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I think our brethren here who in like minded appreciation for Truth,  are dwelling in the Spirit of Christ Jesus unto good works, before ordained that they should walk in them. We are blessed to receive and experience  the beauty of the Spirit of God here, working in edification and truth to encourage exhort and comfort us through our brothers and sisters here. Also the  BT rules here do much to discern between brigands and thieves who’d be identified as a threat to the safety of the flock here.
 
We know that Babylon is blind leaders leading blind followers who hate, disdain and despise the Word of God. This too is a work of God.   The natural man can not resist carnal thinking and belief systems that require physical attendance, actions and laws like physical baptism, literal confession, and agreement with tithing, trinity and other such things they believe that void the word of God.

Tit 1:16  They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

……..religion sooner or later TAKES US RIGHT BACK INTO THE WORLD that we thought we came out of. Ref:LOF 14

I have tested the Catholic confessionals! I found out that even if I went to confession every day, I still could not find peace! Yes, the focus is on the fact that we are forgiven, yet that gift of peace comes only from the Spirit of Christ not the man made structures of religion.

I found out, that as soon as I left the confessional, Satan was outside the door waiting to put an evil thought into my head! …    For me, the truth is really as written…

"…day of Christ… shall not come [to US] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST…" (II Thes. 2:1-2).
This "fall" by the way is not a little slip or a little stumble. It is a complete and total SPIRITUAL FALL! Lof 14

The comforts of Babylon keep you from that fall, in the comforts of their seductive false teachings.

Blessings
Arc

[judith collier]

Arc, I see your point in that Babylon keeps us from the falling away thing we have to do. I see it but am in that state of mind where i first see something and if I don't concentrate really, really hard, the understanding is going to disappear. I guess in so many words i almost got it. Think I got it, but couldn't explain it if I had to.
Also, if we don't literally confess then how do we confess our sins, faults, etc.? I mean I admit to God when I think I am wrong but i do speak in the manner of speaking. Isn't that literal? That's the one thing i love about it here is the fact that people admit faults, apologize and understand the beast thing. Lately I feel like the worst of sinners and everything I do or don't do is under scrutiny by myself. It's like being persecuted but I am obviously doing it. I think. That's why I thought it was best to tell another because I can't be the only one who gets in this dilemna.
Thanks, judy

[grapehound]

Excellent post Arc and, true to form, swimming in the glorious light of His unequivocal Truth.
Thanks dear Sister.
Hope you find your answers Judy, you're in the very best counsel.

Muchest Luv

Grape xx

[Deborah-Leigh]

I can empathize with what you are saying Judy.

 These are not things that need to be grasped intellectually. They are experienced literally in our lives before they can make any sense at all. God is in charge of our experiences and controls our understanding. We cannot comprehend anything spiritual without God’s Spirit and to be in the dark, is an experience of evil assigned to every mortal human being. No one is exempt or above what God is doing.

The Truth of free will being a myth, false teaching and major deception of the carnal mind that is universally spread throughout religion,  was for me a mind boggling Truth that to this day still requires to be fully integrated into my comprehension of life, God, The Son of God and the Plan and Purpose for not only myself but for all humankind. It's a process. 

The application of Truth requires the Spirit of God within us working throughout our  life time  to mend, change and reverse the consequences and presence of deceptions that are idolized and do nothing but raise up all manner of false beliefs, assumptions, mis-leading expectations and attachments to error. Unless we have a change of heart, our minds cannot know God much less even come to understand there are changes required in us that can only be achieved through the presence of the Spirit of God working in us.

God creates the desire and the accomplishment of our desires. Our desires even, cannot be fixed, changed, altered or fulfilled through all of our efforts put together. We don’t have will POWER. The only Power is God. For example, we cannot force ourselves to fall away, leave our first love,  remember from where we have fallen or repent by our own strength intelligence of self will. Nothing good is achieved or desired without the Spirit of God.  

No one has a monopoly on the Spirit of God and no one controls Gods Spirit. That too has to be understood spiritually. That you have understood and felt the experience of getting it then loosing it, getting it, then it slips away out of your field of understanding, is exactly how God is working to bring  the sense of dependence for everything on Him. That in itself is a gift from God.

 I can't be the only one who gets in this dilemna.

You got that so right! You are NOT the only one who gets in this dilema ...you are one of the very FEW who do! ...with Grape seeing and tasting that the Lord IS Good!

Blessings

Arc

[judith collier]

Arc, my 2 cents worth is that i am at it again with the control thing going full speed. I sure hope it is God's will to be delivered of this. I would appreciate a few prayers from anyone reading this and I sure hope it is God's will because this is torment! Or do I have to work at this too? I mean like practicing and praying and such because if you say I do I am doomed. I will make a career out of this too. Got a real knack!
I notice from looking back that i slowly get into this mess from taking charge of everything that comes my way. It is hard not to because there is so much to be done and I when given a task I go like a train engine, always have. Figure if I don't do it, who will. The bad thing is I am not always feeling well and getting pretty darn old here and boy, can I get mean!
Again, I think it is a matter of trust and lack of faith in God's love for me. Figure (intellectually, carnal) JUST GOT THAT!!! Anyway, not focusing on God but on the tasks at hand. Which one is it, Mary or Martha that got her skivies in a knot from  choosing the least best path.
You sure got a way of pushing my envelope Arc, always stretching me and sometimes I get darn right angry because it is not pleasant to be stretched. AND I WANT IMMEDIATE ANSWERS. Dear God, I am my own worst enemy! Just remembered that God would keep in peace those whose minds are stayed on Him. Thanks, God.
Thanks Arc for taking the time for about the 20th time. judy

[grapehound]

I sure hope it is God's will because this is torment! Or do I have to work at this too?

Dearest sister Judy

I think you just answered your own questions in that last posting.! 
It's  ALL God ! He is the Author AND the Perfecter of YOUR faith. 
I really feel for you sis.   

Please understand He doesn't want you all stretched out and "tormented"
It's not you that has to "work" at this. That's His work !
He is working through you ALL the time.! The highs and the lows, the ups and downs, He knows it all. Every single emotion, every tear, every laugh.

I don't believe that Martha chose "the least best path", she was doing right, entertaining her Special guest.  But Jesus discerned that she was displeased with Mary, for sitting in awe of Him. It wasn't  Martha's work that was the problem, it was the condition of her heart toward Mary.

Line from a song:

"Take a break from all I know
Just sit back and let it go
Then I find I've broken through
to the Light again."

Sometimes the hardest thing to do in life is......nothing.
You can't always change a circumstance, but you can change how you feel about it.

Well Judy, you've certainly made it to the top of my prayer list, ( well just under Ray and Manuela !)

Every blessing on you, tired little lamb,
In the Mighty Name of our Beautiful Saviour Jesus.

(He makes you to lie down in green pastures. He leads you beside the still waters.
He restores your soul.)

[Deborah-Leigh]

Oh my dearest sweet poet sister Judy.

Grapehound, did you know Judy loves poetry?

I have to agree with Grape regarding our Sister Martha. To give you some Scripture on the assessment, we have only to look to see who the Lord rose Lazarus for. Was it for Martha or her sister that chose the better part, to sit and listen, yet she did not come running to the Lord as Martha did! Look. I'd go as far to say Babylon also chooses the better part and sits, listens and doesn't go out to the Lord, or obey and revere Him, and when it does go out to the Lord eventually, it is with a train of crying professionals who complain, weap and maon their demands upon the Lord! Enough to make anyone weep! That is not to discount or overlook the insight that the condition of the heart whereby Martha complains about Mary, was seen by our Lord as only He can see the condition of our hearts! ...as noted by our brother Grape.

Sure Martha’s sister chose the better part yet like the son who says yes yes, Father and then disobeys, who is the son more blessed. The one to say no and then obeys!
Sure Martha is anxious and troubled about many things as too are those entering the Kingdom of God are under trials and tribulations not un -wearily or with diplomatic immunity to the strain and pain! God did not send Jesus an anesthetic to go to the Cross. In fact He rejected such pain avoiding pacifiers!

Joh 11:39  Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. MARTHA, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Joh 11:40  Jesus saith unto her,(MARTHA) Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
Joh 11:41  Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank Thee that thou hast heard Me.

Judy, your honesty resounds in vivid feelings, hurts and expressions of desire for Him your King of Peace and Hope of Glory. I had no idea that I could be experienced as you describe!!

I had a real lift of joy from your disclosure that I “push your envelope” and that you feel “stretched”….because I could feel your love shine through the pain that certainly would be part of feeling the way you describe! I didn’t know! I had no idea! I’d also feel the same! You don’t know if you should love or hate me!....Loving me makes it feel like you are saying the pain is okay and hating me just makes the pain worse! Pretty nasty! I feel for you Judy! I really think I understand. That is tormenting!

Look, God has got you exactly where He wants you and make no deceived mistake about it, God has me where He wants me too! I just haven’t told anyone where that place is in broad detail! If you want to know then, you’ll wish I hadn’t said anything because it is just too much for my closest relatives to bear who have headed for the hills, denied me and turned from me. If my life were a picture of bliss, ease and spiritual relaxation, then oh boy, I’d have the family, the worldly family all at the table! They are not there. I sup with the Lord alone as you do, as others here do and as we are most profoundly blessed to be doing!

My life is not easy! It is very far from certain or sure. That’s where God has me. Nothing is easy for those God is preparing for His Kingdom ~ yet it is possible ~ all things are possible for our God.

Grape I don’t care where I am on your prayer list ~ just as long as I’m a permanent resident in there somewhere  ~ I find comfort to know that all BT Forum Members are in Ray’s prayers for us!

God hears us.

Affectionately

Deborah