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Greek translation
John9362:
Hi all,
I posted the following to a friend [Don] from Mike's Q & A section "Is God a trinity" and he came up with his response which suprised me. Can you please help me in understanding the truth here.
God bless you guys and thank you
John
So there are two scriptural 'gods', one is created and the other is the Creator. Which of these two 'gods' is Christ? Let us not speculate. Why not just let Christ tell us
Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Don's response:
If you would bother to check the meanings of greek words, before leaping to erroneous conclusions, we'd all be further ahead.
In Rev 3:14, the greek word 'ARCHE' which was rendered in error, as 'beginning' gives an ambiguous twist to things, the ACTUAL meaning really conveys the intent of " to BE the SOURCE, the ORIGIN of something. So this word really names Jesus as CREATOR not created!!!!!!!
Further more:
Mike goes on to say: Christ Himself reaffirms Paul's statement that the Father is God and that He, Christ is the "beginning of God's creation." Paul, of course, tells us that after God created the "one Lord Jesus Christ," that it was "by Him," that we were all created:
Don's response: " WRONG,... SEE ABOVE!
Don goes further to say:
2Thessalonians 1:12 says "... according to the grace of our God and Lord Jesus Christ. " Looking at the grammar, according to the rules of Greek, when you have a subject expressed in the singular genitive case (posessive) and there is a direct object without the article (the) of the same case and number (singular, here) which is connected by "and" (kai),... THEN THE SUBJECT AND DIRECT OBJECT REFER TO THE SAME PERSON!!!!!! [Granville Sharpe's Rule,... look it up in any Greek grammar] SO, Paul does, in fact refer to Jesus as GOD!!!
BTW:
I am SORRY if my question above is NOT clear, I'm having trouble using this new format...since I just started to learn the previous one.
hillsbororiver:
The following is cut from the paper "Is God a closed Trinity or an Open Family?"
Is Jesus Christ an equal part of this "ONE God?" NO, He is not. Let God’s Word tell us. We don’t need to speculate and theorize. Here is Who and What Jesus Christ is, He is the "one LORD." This is not hard. It is only hard for those who wrestle and twist Scripture to their own destruction (II Peter 3:16). John 8:5-6 makes the following very clear:
This Scripture tells us that "ALL IS OUT OF" GOD (the FATHER).
And this Scripture tells us that "ALL IS THROUGH" Jesus Christ.
God the Father is the first cause of all and ALL IS OUT GOD, even Jesus Christ is "OUT of God."
"...I [Jesus] came OUT from God. I CAME OUT FROM the FATHER..." (John 16:27-28).
Now if Jesus came out from the trinity, why doesn’t the Scripture say so? He didn’t come out of the trinity and He didn’t come out of the holy spirit, but HE DID COME, "...OUT FROM THE FATHER!"
And after Jesus Christ came OUT from the Father, ALL ELSE came THROUGH Jesus Christ,
"Who [Jesus Christ] is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, for in Him is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created THROUGH Him and FOR Him, and He is BEFORE all, and all has its cohesion in Him" (Col. 14-17).
Nowhere do we read that God came out from Christ! No, Christ came OUT FROM THE FATHER and all else was created THROUGH Jesus Christ. There is no trinity here!
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
As I said before, one cannot be both "of" something or someone and at the same time "be" that something or someone. There is certainly no trilateral, triune, trinity of God here!
Jesus Christ said,
"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
There is another profound statement in the Scriptures that PROVES CONCLUSIVELY that Jesus Christ is not part of a trinity, but is now and always will be, under the Headship of His Father. Here it is:
"...that the GOD OF OUR LORD Jesus Christ, the FATHER..." (Eph. 1:17).
There it is--Jesus Christ HAS A "GOD!" Paul wrote this and all of the above Scriptures AFTER Jesus Christ was resurrected and restored to His previous GLORIES in God. And in His glorified state, Jesus Christ is STILL subjected to HIS GOD! Who wants to be the first blasphemer to even suggest that God the Father "has a God?"!!! But Jesus Christ, DOES have a God! Notice the following:
Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
And remember that these statements concerning Jesus Christ "having a God" were made long after His resurrection and restoration back to His former glories. Today, our Lord STILL HAS A GOD! And need I repeat the fact that the God and Father of Jesus Christ DOES NOT HAVE A GOD?!
The article can be read in its entirety @;
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
Hope this helps
Joe
knuckle:
Hi all-----------
Just to make sure we are on the same page-------Jehovah refered to as God in the OT is infact Christ and God the Father is not even introduced to us until Christ came in human form-----is this statement correct?
much love-----------knuckle
John9362:
Is Jesus Christ an equal part of this "ONE God?" NO, He is not. Let God’s Word tell us. We don’t need to speculate and theorize. Here is Who and What Jesus Christ is, He is the "one LORD."
You say: "one LORD."
Is this a contradiction ? Jesus may be a Lord, or a god, but he was never, nor will he ever be LORD!! There is only One LORD, and he surely is NOT, NOR ever has been a human.
John9362:
Sorry, my last post is to Hillsbororiver.
Thanks
John
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